So why then on an Orion engine I had running too rich for too long never run right afterwards? Why did that Orion only run about 4 gallons when my other Orion ran 7? The one that ran 7 never ran rich, the front bearing was always clean no extra fuel pumping through it dirtying up the case and everything else. Not trying to say you are wrong but my experience is even if it doesn't ruin the bearing running them too rich is not good on anything. I know if you run it lean as hell you will fry the engine probably well before you ruin a front bearing, but again I got considerable less time out of a rich Orion than a properly tuned Orion

So what you are saying, Is that you ran that orion lsn so rich that you kill the front bearing and It run like crap and You still ran it like that for 4 gallons? At what point did you think that maybe I should have change this 8$ bearing before you kill this engine...

Nope that is not what I am saying.....I am saying that it was ran rich (new to nitro) was always told to make it smoke so that is what I did, and I got about 4 gallons out of it, then I bought a new Orion engine learned how to tune and got 7 gallons out of it. And hearing that running it rich doesn't kill a front bearing and have any issue on the engine is just the exact opposite of what I went through.

running too rich harms nothing...if dirt collects then is sucked in it can cause damage but other then that being rich harms nothing


your racing offroad, 1000's of things can go wrong and cause one engine to wear quicker then another... especially a Orion , that factory is horrible for consistency

Exactly. So many variables in nitro. Fuel, plug, break-in, tune, climate, dirt(different kinds of " too..), etc. No wonder if two identical engines have two very un-identical lifespans...

My suspicion is that in nitro there is WAY too much worrying about (and changine of..) front bearings..

I'm running the LTD in my truggy it's got about 12 tanks in it now. I put a mild race tune on it Saturday. I have to say I like it better than my 1 1/2 gallon old .25 Roma. I suspect the jp-4 isn't the best pipe for the Roma. I am going to try the 41021 and the super strong next weekend. Has anyone found a killer pipe setup in a truggy for the Paloma LTD? I read a bit about the 41001 with the 9886?

+1,000,000

Quality fuel, clean air filter, and a decent tune can go a long way.

im going to say run the 9886, myself id rather change clutching than tuned pipe. im more of a fan of finding what makes the most total power and tuning the clutch to get the snap i like.
that said im no expert and suffer from brain damage so my word is worth crap.

Just becouse you were new to nitro and you kill a engine in 4 gal, it dont mean that running a engine with a rich lsn is the cause of it dieing early for you to say that for sure.Think about a metal shield bearing that onroad engine use,You can see day light thru it,so if you break in that engine with a lsn rich you think that bearing is going to be toast? It dont work that way,If a bearing goes bad is becouse of dirt got in the bearing, It wore out and the crank is off center and the oil in the fuel can not seal any more.

well if it is not run rich then it doesn't leak and then dirt doesn't get sucked up into the engine. hmmmm sounds to me like a leaky front bearing can lead to other issues. Running an engine overly rich can cause issues in other areas that can lead to premature engine failure. You keep dancing around the point. The point is running an engine overly rich CAN cause issues later on this means running an engine rich CAN lead to premature engine failure. Does it always cause this probably not but CAN it cause it the answer is YES. Can you say that it didn't cause premature failure???? What do you think the odds are better at, the overly rich engine with the overly rich issue causing premature failure or not?? Same track was used on both engines, same fuel, exact same break in process, used engine heaters every start, pulled engine after every run and cleaned it up same way with air and a rag. I treated both engines the same way, the first one was my first nitro engine and it lasted 4 gallons and was tuned overly rich because I didn't know any better, was told it needed smoke to stay lubed, so I made it smoke. The second engine same brand and model but the tune was better, not overly rich, same plugs, same clutch buggy everything the SAME.... Why almost twice the life?? At 7 gallons it was still running and it actually made it to 9 gallons with ghost flame outs starting at 7 gallons, at 4 gallons on the first engine it would flame out almost every race at least twice. This was my experience and when you logically think about it, the front bearing was washed out ruining the seal and allowing for things to be ingested into the engine making it unstable and unreliable at about half the life of a properly tuned engine, and I really still can't tune like the pros but I can get good engine life and performance out of my engines...

you use an air compressor to blow dirt from your engine?
pretty good way to force dirt in where it wouldnt go otherwise.

I use an air compressor to blow the engine off, not the front bearing, I really love how multiple people try to read between the lines..... I mean hello let me take my clutch off and put 100 psi of air to my front bearing and then say how it failed.... Point is when people try to read between the lines they simply don't want to admit that I have a good point and that I am more than likely correct and that contrary to your beliefs running overly rich DOES/CAN lead to premature engine failure. I blow my car off at the track, then break it down and use my brushes and rags to clean everything else off. I do not remove my clutch every time, however I do pull my clutch bell to look at the shoes and the bearings. On my first Orion there was always residue on the bottom of the engine due to the front bearing being run overly rich but at that time I did not know or think it was a problem, now that I know better I know running an engine overly rich can cause many problems just like in a regular engine running too rich is not good. SO for Neil and all of you to try and say it doesn't hurt the engine is just insane. I enjoy going back and forth but I bet money if you go to the real top engine builders or even the main companies they would all say to never run it overly rich, a little rich probably won't hurt much but if it is too rich where you are blowing tons of fuel out the front bearing leaving a residue after every run that it can and will shorten the life of the engine. After all the point that I first questioned was when Neil said it doesn't hurt to run them overly rich when in fact I know from my own experience that with at least 99% certainty that was the reason I had an unstable engine after 4 gallons and then on the next engine only changing the tune due to getting better at tuning and understanding that too rich=a bad thing I was able to get 7 and ultimately 9 gallons with 7 gallons being able to bank on a clean no flame out 1 hour final. So say what you want, argue all you want, my experience tells me what I need to know as well as the support from more than one pro driver in teaching me how to tune. I bet if you asked Drake, Lutz, Tebo or any others if running an engine rich would hurt it, and I don't mean just a little rich but rich enough that it leaves a residue under the engine they would say it does and if you want to take it a step further how about asking Rex, Houston, Rossi or Ron. It might not be the cause of an engine to fail, but the real point is that to say it doesn't hurt is total bull, it can lead to other issues that you are unaware of that can ruin an engine..... had you never ran it overly rich on bottom then it would have never gotten lean on top and so on.......

You keep say that back then you didnt know any better. What about all the advice you got back then on the Orion thead?Pages & pages,The guys told you about changing that bearing etc etc.I think YOU keep dancing around the point.I never say that is You run that engine with a overly rich lsn and run it in dirt is going to be OK.You had nothing but trouble with BOTH those orion engines.Let me put it this way,If you run a overly rich lsn for break in on a street,You are going to be ok.This is why I tell you that you can not say that general a overly rich lsn is not going to kill the front bearing...

Fwiw I don't think pros treat their engines the same as people do who actually have to pay for them. I.e. they probably mostly run on the lean side.. My approach has always been, better too rich than too lean..

honestly guys there is a thread for all this already - if you want to clean your engine use denatured alcohol and get all the grit and grime flushed away from the bearing before you use your compressed air.

Also a trained ear can tell when a bearing is failing, your tune changes, the way your engine sounds is different.

when tuning your engines make sure you always see at least a littel smoke, smoke = excess oil and that will make sure your crankcase is full of full and not sucking in air and that things are lubricating correctly.