Rex paloma Ltd edition
 

As above the Rex paloma Ltd edition.21 off road engine from novarossi has anyone any feedback they could give me on this engine or has anyone used it I was going to buy a sh engine and someone on here told me I can get novarossi for the same price range so an thinking of this Rex engine I used to use Rex in the on road racing and they were great now I have moved to off road and was looking for feed back on this engine

this engine is a beast...probably the most powerful offroad Nova there is right now......has immense amounts of bottom end torque.... you can make it even more powerful by removing 0.1 mm -0.2 mm worth of head shims and using a 9886/41001 combo.....

i need to order one and have it shipped to someone in the states, then shipped to me i cant pay the 60 they want to ship to canada directly

I have been running this engine in stock form for awhile now, 7 + gallons. actually run it in a truggy. I have only used 9901/41021 pipe combo, strong motor for sure. Haven't tried the pipe combo Neal is recommending but I would take his word for it and try that pipe as well.

Thanks for the feedback I think this will be my next motor

How well has the front bearing held up? I picked one up during their sale but haven't had a chance to break it in yet. It doesn't have the 17011 however, just a generic blue seal 7x19x6

How does it compare to the Elite 8?

well threw down a deposit on a paloma ltd mod from neal with the good front bearing, ceramic rear.
should go well with the square stroke 3 port and plus21btt novas

I wanna' know too: what are the differences between the Paloma and the Elite 8?

don't over lean the engine and the front bearing will hold up fine....the issues start when the tune gets lean and the engine loses its seal...

It has more power then the Elite 8.. both it and the Elite 8 have a complete MES style exhaust port which allows them to make more power then the higher end models that have incomplete MES exhaust... Some of them have the middle section of the MES dropped down really low which restricts flow...

How much more powerful is it compared to the gold Paloma?

the Gold one is the more powerful of the two

take the gold engine...put a 8 mm insert in the carb... drop out 0.2 mm head shim..basically take out the brass shim and leave the 2 aluminum shims.. grab a #6 or #7 glowplug..... add a 9886/41001 or a 9853/41001 and you will have a monster of a engine that will run like a raped ape !!!!

I see that they have two different type's of paloma's one with the gold head "limited" and another with the blue head at $90 more then the gold head. It has a slugged crank, is that the only difference between the two?

the Blue head has the 17.6 mm stroke where the gold head has the 16.8 stroke...The Blue head also has the 17011 bearing and as you said the tungsten slugged crank

So, a little more bottom grunt? Better front bearing, and better crank. The specs on the web page say's the same stroke between the two, but I'll take your word on it over the web page listing. Are they both 14.5 cranks?

The Gold head will have more power overall due to having a full open exhaust port..... however the Blue head will have a little better part throttle trigger feel due to the dropped middle of the MES exhaust port....

From reading, I know that web page info. is not the most accurate or detailed info. That's why i'm taking your word on it... so will the blue head will have a longer power band and better mileage "stock"?

The LTD has a 14mm crank, the Blue head has a 14.5 crank

possible the Blue head has better mileage... but there is also to factor that the LTD has a little lower overall sleeve timing.....i think it would need to be something tested back to back ....

If I were to have Nova build me a engine it would be very close to the Gold head Paloma...it has the DNA to be many things, from a fuel sipping mizer to a all out drag engine..I would put a nicer cooling head on it, some ceramic bearings and maybe a nicer slugged and tuned crank but with the same bore and timing profile....even tho its a 7 port it has lower sleeve timing then Nova usually uses, which gives it really crisp bottom end power....

Neal is correct. 14mm crank and 16.8 stroke. They still have the wrong specs listed for the gold head. I uploaded a pic of the exploded view here http://www.rctech.net/forum/14309619-post8579.html the crank looks a lot like the 15009 from the p5xlt, except it's silicone filled

Thanks guy's, great info here. Had a 7 port that the timing was high...won't say which brand lol....it was a little weak on the bottom and could not get the run time as in their 5 port, it was smooth but ....no snap. So what your saying Neal makes a lot of sense.

Its likely a moot point as your 7 port is likely long gone...but one issue I have seen with the 7 ports is that they had the compression set to low from factory...Some of the high timed Nova's had the same head clearances as a low timed 3 port....when we account for the fact the 7 ports usually have a much larger and much higher timed exhaust port it results in the 7 port operating with far less operational compression as the 3 port which results in a sluggish and weak bottom end and narrower tuning window..So just messing with the head shims can dramatically crisp up the bottom end performance of a high timed 7 port, you can drop most of them by at least 0.2 mm...If you run the right glowplug and keep the tune proper you can run the heads much tighter then you would expect and the performance gains are fantastic..

Cool...still have it, piston and sleeve are in great shape, didn't run it much. I'll play with the shims some...worse I could do is fry the piston. lol Its a Alpha and was known to have a weak bottom but the top end screamed.

I had to replace my front bearing in my Paloma after about 1/2 gallon. It got a stiff spot in it.

I don't know how it compares to the Elite 8 but compared to my Elite 5, it's stronger for sure pushing a 8 1/2 lb OFNA almost as fast as my 7lb, 10oz MBX6R with the Elite 5. BUT, the Elite 5 seems to be faster on top and all through acceleration. Might be the weight difference though, my 6R is stupid fast.

Both cars have the same 9901 pipe but the OFNA Picco w/Paloma has the 41021 header and the 6R w/Elite 5 has the 41020 header.

what size carb insert ?

a 9901/41021 will neuter the engine on its own, if it has a small insert like 7 mm or smaller it will be even choked back more

I think I have the 7.5 in it now.

And now that you mention it, I put the 9mm insert in my Elite 5 and that's when it came alive.

But I originally had a JP4 on my Paloma and broke it in with that and when I got the 9901, I was overwelmed by the difference. It was crazy how much improved it got just from the pipe and you say there's something better the 9901?

I use the C6TG (I think it's called). I can remove a head shim and that will be good for it?

Yeah the 9901/41021 is big time holding the engine back.... 9901 is a 3 chamber muffler pipe primarily designed to reduce noise to cater to some senseless and arbitrary European rules some stupid fools came up with about 10 years ago... the 41021 manifold doesn't help much either.... a swap to a 9853 or 9886 on a 41001 will wake that beast right up...especially if you add a bigger carb insert like a 8 mm

edit....even adding a 41001 to your 9901 will make a big difference...for some reason the 41021/9901 combo has terrible top end and just adding the 41001 will give the engine a huge boost

Hi there,
good information on this thread, thanks. It's really a mess, if you name two totally different engines almost the same.

Neal,
even in your nitroshop the tech specs are wrong for the limited edition:
It seems, everyone just copy&pastes the wrong specs. I yet have to find a shop that lists the correct data for the Paloma Limited.

Andi

I thought when you ran the engine rich it blew out the front bearings..

Yeah but too lean and you can lose the oil seal around the crank

nope...most definitely not.... there is no seal in the bearing and the fuel will not harm the bearing no matter how rich you run the engine. in fact the more lubrication you give the bearing the happier it is.........believe it or not but the fuel itself is what seals these engines....

Now if the engine is crazy rich it can pump fuel out the front bearing which can cause dirt to collect, and if you then run the engine really lean afterwards that dirt may get sucked in....but the engine being pig rich and pissing fuel out the bearing will do no harm to the bearing at all....

So why then on an Orion engine I had running too rich for too long never run right afterwards? Why did that Orion only run about 4 gallons when my other Orion ran 7? The one that ran 7 never ran rich, the front bearing was always clean no extra fuel pumping through it dirtying up the case and everything else. Not trying to say you are wrong but my experience is even if it doesn't ruin the bearing running them too rich is not good on anything. I know if you run it lean as hell you will fry the engine probably well before you ruin a front bearing, but again I got considerable less time out of a rich Orion than a properly tuned Orion

So what you are saying, Is that you ran that orion lsn so rich that you kill the front bearing and It run like crap and You still ran it like that for 4 gallons? At what point did you think that maybe I should have change this 8$ bearing before you kill this engine...

Nope that is not what I am saying.....I am saying that it was ran rich (new to nitro) was always told to make it smoke so that is what I did, and I got about 4 gallons out of it, then I bought a new Orion engine learned how to tune and got 7 gallons out of it. And hearing that running it rich doesn't kill a front bearing and have any issue on the engine is just the exact opposite of what I went through.

running too rich harms nothing...if dirt collects then is sucked in it can cause damage but other then that being rich harms nothing


your racing offroad, 1000's of things can go wrong and cause one engine to wear quicker then another... especially a Orion , that factory is horrible for consistency

Exactly. So many variables in nitro. Fuel, plug, break-in, tune, climate, dirt(different kinds of " too..), etc. No wonder if two identical engines have two very un-identical lifespans...

My suspicion is that in nitro there is WAY too much worrying about (and changine of..) front bearings..

I'm running the LTD in my truggy it's got about 12 tanks in it now. I put a mild race tune on it Saturday. I have to say I like it better than my 1 1/2 gallon old .25 Roma. I suspect the jp-4 isn't the best pipe for the Roma. I am going to try the 41021 and the super strong next weekend. Has anyone found a killer pipe setup in a truggy for the Paloma LTD? I read a bit about the 41001 with the 9886?

+1,000,000

Quality fuel, clean air filter, and a decent tune can go a long way.

im going to say run the 9886, myself id rather change clutching than tuned pipe. im more of a fan of finding what makes the most total power and tuning the clutch to get the snap i like.
that said im no expert and suffer from brain damage so my word is worth crap.

Just becouse you were new to nitro and you kill a engine in 4 gal, it dont mean that running a engine with a rich lsn is the cause of it dieing early for you to say that for sure.Think about a metal shield bearing that onroad engine use,You can see day light thru it,so if you break in that engine with a lsn rich you think that bearing is going to be toast? It dont work that way,If a bearing goes bad is becouse of dirt got in the bearing, It wore out and the crank is off center and the oil in the fuel can not seal any more.

well if it is not run rich then it doesn't leak and then dirt doesn't get sucked up into the engine. hmmmm sounds to me like a leaky front bearing can lead to other issues. Running an engine overly rich can cause issues in other areas that can lead to premature engine failure. You keep dancing around the point. The point is running an engine overly rich CAN cause issues later on this means running an engine rich CAN lead to premature engine failure. Does it always cause this probably not but CAN it cause it the answer is YES. Can you say that it didn't cause premature failure???? What do you think the odds are better at, the overly rich engine with the overly rich issue causing premature failure or not?? Same track was used on both engines, same fuel, exact same break in process, used engine heaters every start, pulled engine after every run and cleaned it up same way with air and a rag. I treated both engines the same way, the first one was my first nitro engine and it lasted 4 gallons and was tuned overly rich because I didn't know any better, was told it needed smoke to stay lubed, so I made it smoke. The second engine same brand and model but the tune was better, not overly rich, same plugs, same clutch buggy everything the SAME.... Why almost twice the life?? At 7 gallons it was still running and it actually made it to 9 gallons with ghost flame outs starting at 7 gallons, at 4 gallons on the first engine it would flame out almost every race at least twice. This was my experience and when you logically think about it, the front bearing was washed out ruining the seal and allowing for things to be ingested into the engine making it unstable and unreliable at about half the life of a properly tuned engine, and I really still can't tune like the pros but I can get good engine life and performance out of my engines...