Front Engine leak
 

Coming from a new losi 3.4 engine. It leaks from the bearing. I'm new to nitro, will this cause any sort of internal damage? Engine only has about 5 tanks through it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...otion/LEAK.jpg

That's very dirty looking. Did you run it without an air filter, or possibly get dirt in the engine somehow? What color is your fuel?

that is pretty normal for a engine to leak from the front...especially if it was running rich and stored with excess fuel int he engine......

try not to run your low speed so rich , that is THE reason front bearings fail prematurely

So you actually think extra fuel leaking out the bearing actually harms it ? I dont buy that for a second dude ! LOL what harms the bearings is when the engine breathes thru the front sucking up dirt into the bearing...thats actually what kills the bearings....dirt kills bearings !!!!! . I would rather have a engine leak a little fuel then suck a little dirt ! a little extra fuel only lubricates the bearings, it doesn't harm them...dirt is what kills the bearings...not fuel ! this why we block the little oil bypass port....we get extra fuel leaking out the front, but have zero issue with dirt getting sucked into the engine......... After blocking that port all the engines show slight leaking out the front, yet the amount of front bearings failures was reduced to nil....and this is tested and proven over hundreds of engines now...............As I say, its better to leak a tiny bit of fuel then it is for the engine to breath thru the front...Breathing in dirt thru the front bearing is what kills the bearings....fuel seeping out does no harm at all.......fuel is a lubricant, and having extra lubricant only seals and protects the bearing better.... Personally I would rather see a slightly damp front bearing then a bone dry bearing...if the bearing is bone dry then I always suspect the engine is breathing in thru the nose....which means it is breathing in unfiltered , dirty air..........

Now of course a little extra fuel leaking will cause a collection of dirt on the nose of the engine, that may eventually wear out the dust shields....But this is far less of an issue then the engine breathing in unfiltered air thru the bearing....... As under some conditions these engines will actively breath thru the nose and will suck up large amounts of dirt, which absolutely destroys the front bearing in a very short amount of time...........this is far more of a concern then a slight bit of fuel seeping out the front bearing.,....

here is a before and after of a Bonito......

this Bonito was bone dry on the nose....having tuning issues, but showed no signs of any bearing leaking or anything like that...Until we opened it up there was no evidence of any bearing issues whatsoever....However once we opened up the bearing we found it was packed with dirt...not only was the bearing packed with dirt, but also the dirt had passed right thru the bearing and was actually being sucked right into the engine itself..

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_0022.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_0020.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m..._0006-Copy.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m..._0003-Copy.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m..._0002-Copy.jpg

now here is a engine after blocking the bypass port...The engine did now leak a tiny bit out the nose and had a collection of dirt behind the flywheel....However once we opened it up the bearing and engine were completely 100% free of dirt......Yes it was leaking some fuel, but dirt was no longer being sucked up into the engine.......... the first set of pictures shows a engine that ran with a bone dry nose...no fuel leaking and the bearing was stuffed full of dirt...... the second set of pictures is of a engine with the bypass port blocked (which increases the lubrication), run in the same conditions, except the front was seeping fuel because the bypass return was blocked....Yet when we open the bearing there is zero signs of dirt....... 100% sterile clean......you tell me what is harming these bearings...a little extra oil and fuel, or being stuffed right full of dirt ?

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_2579.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_2578.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_2577.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_2576.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...t/IMG_2575.jpg


edit.... I have multiple sets of pictures and had actually thought these were of the same engine...but the first is a Bonito, the second is a P5.... I will have to dig up the original dirty P5 pictures...

Oil goes out as positive crankcase pressure pushes and sucks dirt in as negative pressure sucks
Leaving a super rich lsn will cause this by filling the crankcase with extra oil and then flowing out the path of least resistance (front bearing) ,i know this for fact

I have seen no major benefit in plugging the so called " vacuum port" or wtvr u call it now , yes i have plugged many of them , there are a number of manufacturers who use this style of oil ring film seal forming vacuum oilers . A crappy front bearing can last longer than a killer front bearing that was ran with ultra rich lsn .

Quite frankly i have seen and dealt with MANY more engines in "race" application than you have so please spare me

I wasnt going to say anything but........ well , ya know

So your saying a rich setting causes the engine to breath thru the front bearing ?


I actually believe a little differently... IMO running the engine lean causes them to breath thru the front bearing.... A lean setting results in a loss of the engines hydraulic seal along the crankshaft.....These engines rely on a fluid film to seal the crankcase...disrupt that film and these things will start hoovering thru the nose......

At the end of the day tho we do agree that dirt kills bearings..... doesn't matter how it gets there, lean, rich , osmosis or teleportation ..dirt kills bearings.........

And for plugging that bypass port...You may not have found much reason to block it, but I most certainly have ...On my engines I have no choice in the matter......plain and simple the more HP a engine makes, the stronger the vacuum signal the engine makes ,and the harder its going to suck..... and because of that,any areas of vacuum loss will magnified... On a stock or mild powered engine that bypass may supply just enough vacuum to remove excess oil and fuel from the nose to prevent it from leaking... However On my high powered modifieds that little port becomes more like a nozzle on a mini vacuum cleaner, With strong enough vacuum to actually start drawing atmosphere in right thru the front bearing..which if your running in a dusty environment results in the front bearing plugging solid with a dirt in only a matter of minutes....A no a 17011 will not help any, it will fill up with dirt just as quick as any other.... The only way to stop this from happening is to block the bypass port..............Now a low powered or mild engine will not benefit from from blocking the bypass port nearly as much as would a high powered modified, but it will still benefit to some degree... Even a mild engine run in dirty conditions will ingest less dirt thru the bearing then it would if the bypass was not blocked....Basically the more powerful a engine is, the more it is going to benefit from having the bypass plugged...On most of my engines blocking the bypass is necessary ...

Quite frankly i have seen and dealt with MANY more engines in "race" application than you have so please spare me

you really have absolutely no idea how many engines I work on ..for you to even say this just shows me how arrogant of a person you really are...All I can say is keep on talking buddy, I am going to enjoy the day when our paths cross and I can make you eat those words..

I have no argument against when you push an engine past its designed limits you will create many problems that will not show when the engine is kept within its designed limits .

I will also enjoy the day

Just curious , what makes you think i dont work on and deal with a massive amount of micromotors in the engine room and on the track ?

thats me , mr. Arrogant :lol: , please Neal , all who know me know its quite the opposite , so please stop trying to discredit

Its pretty apparent you are a hardcore sell your product kinda guy with a heart on

Many can see it but u

Settle down guys, you're acting like a bunch of Norwegians arguing over the last drop of Aquavit :lol:

your the one making stupid arrogant comments about engine numbers, not me......

.

Someone dim the lights and go get popcorn... we are in for a great show :lol:

Extra butter please :lol:

Hey ,we both have a great passion to bring you guys the best of the best , that is a bonus for you guys :nod:

Some are just more ruthlessly competitive than others but in the end the goal is the same , bringing you guys great products from great manufacturers

I think I pretty much agree with you here !!!!

Awww you two, how sweeeeeet.:p

Both have valid points both are experienced both have ego's as anyone else but I've seen this issue first had not closing off causes dirt issue after closing it cut down the dirt. Fighting isn't cool were too old and too solve this fun battle I say let's do it the old fashion way solve it on the track head to head challenge.

CRE verse Houston. Pick your team drivers hit a track and race with you guys tuning and supporting your team who ever wins has bragging rights.

how bout neal the driver and me the driver ;)

of course that is wayyyy unfair butttt ...... put up or ........ well , you know the rest :D

btw , no EGO on this side of the border Jay

i have spent a lonnnng time learning the hard way and from many great engine guys with valuable knowledge that cant be purchased or taught by any instructor at some college , i know quite a bit about rc car engines Jay , that i can guarantee

ego is not me , arrogant is not me , opinionated definitely , the opinions come from alot of learned experiences that i have had at 100's of races and the experience of thousands of racers who have purchased engines from me over the years and we have shared the experiences they have had and solved many o problems that may have arose .

to the o.p. ,your front bearing is leaking because your engine is rich , absolutely without a doubt , it may be a pretty crappy front bearing also ;)

I was going to suggest this but deleted it just as I was about to hit post. IMO engine selection plays a small role in racing. I'm not saying all engines are equal, but there are quite a few that are in the same ballpark. I don't care how much power you can make. If you can't drive you're not winning jack diddly.

Front bearings leaking oil is perfectly normal and does not contribute to bearing wear. As long as the seal is not damaged and the bearing is smooth and not worn then all good.
I've only been playing with model Heli, boat, car and plane engines for 42 years.:lol:

I think Houston is on the money with rich settings causing wear as the oil is diluted due to excessive methanol/nitro present when running rich so wear has to be faster imo.

Ive seen it a hundred times over smelly , rich lsn especially , that is 99% of the time the cause of front bearings seal being compromised and letting dirt get sucked back as pressures change in the crankcase

I mean dont get me wrong , if your track surface or area you bash in ;) is super dusty and fine dirt its pretty dam hard to keep from having to change front bearings often

Its no coincidence that every time i pull my engines down for inspection that the front bearing is very clean and dry on the outside , but i do use either byrons race 3000 or pro driver 3000 which has a fair amount of castor and i keep my lsn pretty lean :nod: , i also get exceptional runtime and have a very driveable car :D

Change my statement Ego was wrong opinionated is a better word at the end of the day we all wont agree OMG me and my wife are prime examples. I see blue she sees red man very hard to figure out but you got to love them.

Ive seen you wheel forget where some video but your no slug your actually good for a old man (Joke).

As they say different strokes for different folks. Neil is a great guy he knows his stuff as you but I honestly love these threads cause the rest of the threads are boring :lol:

CRE Verse Houston Nitro Challenge Dec 9th, 10th and 11. Early opening on Friday (8am) for tuning and testing , Saturdays three rounds of Qualifing, Sunday one main 1 hour long. Admission is FREE as long as you bring a 12 pack MUST be a GREEN bottles.

Im only 37 ya dork! Sheesh :lol:

If neal can find a way to get down to phoenix with moxley for the nitro challenge that wouldbe great , when i am coming up to lap him for the third time in the first qualifier he might be able to chase me down the straight ;)

Well it does sound plausible, I have an engine where the bearings are "past it" by some slight margin, and I noticed the entire front of the seal was all covered in a thick layer of sand, so it had been sucking dust in there.
Similarly I have a healthy engine which had a small oil drip in the front there after storage, and when I took that flywheel off it was completely clean on the seal.
So the sucking in dirt bit clearly happens.

Really 37 man I was think you were in your 50's for some reason Im older then you respect your elders :D

Agree and also another reason that suction may occur with a rich setting is as I mentioned before the oil being diluted preventing it from providing a proper seal in the oil groove thats machined in the block right behind the bearing.

You don't have to be a great driver to be an engine expert...

Agreed , very much so ,but being able to use an engine in a way that it is solely intended , for racing, to its full capacity and feel is verrrry useful.

Frigging Canadians

:tire::tire:

Be nice I'm part Canadian being my mom's from Victoria its a awesome place its very clean and there people are nice including Neil. people are different in there own way, where your from does play a big part its called culture.

Lol.. Joking...I love your bacon! Hate your fighters.

Damn, just changed bearing in my pratice engine - STS D21T - which is ABSOLUTELY not a high power engine :D The front bearing was full of dirt and so was the house like the photos from Neil on page one.
The bearings is only 6 liters old, but is extreme low costs bearing. After a few liters of fuel I could drag the crank in and out (just a little) but no side play. After 5 liters I started to ruin plugs after ½ a liter of fuel. Guess it was due to a big play in the bearings, so the crank pin and conrod thouched the backplate.
Don't know if thats the problem, but now I've blocked the vakuum hole and installed new bearings.
Read something about bearings. ABEC# is a standard for bearings. ABEC3 bearings is up to 32500 RPM (the once I just removed). ABEC5 bearings is up to 37000 RPM like e.g these bearings from ABEC35 14x25.4x6 steel

I realize this thread is a year old but i hope someone still follows it. Doing the soapy water test, my front bearing has a good leak in it but it doesn't leak oil or fuel which means it is probably sucking air in and this engine runs horribly inconsistent and the only way to keep it running is to turn the idle screw as far open as it goes. No this is not due to improper tuning as it will be fine and then all of the sudden start acting up which is what i mean by inconsistent. So what is this bypass port, where is it located, and how do i plug it up?

P.S. This was a brand new motor, nothing but problems straight from the box.

Make and model?

Some engines are just not well built

redcat aftershock 3.5. I spend more time trying to make it run than i do running it

You aint the only one thats had problems with trying to get a redcat nitro car to run

I highly recommend getting something worthy or contacting

yeah well the way i see it, after all that money spent on shipping, then redcat probably telling me its not covered under warranty and having to pay more shipping to get it back, i might as well overhaul the motor or buy a new one to slap in for roughly the same cost as the shipping. I want to get the Savage x 4.6. Anyway so how do i plug the bypass port, worth a shot

Most don't have that "bypass port". I would doubt that your engine does.