|
We have been selling the 21 speeds for $375. To me, that's still pricey but it is a good deal considering. I like OS engines because it's a proprietary product of Great Planes, much like Losi or Spektrum is with Horizon. These type of companies will be around for the duration.
I've never tried the Werks but have sold a few. There are simply alot of good budget engines on the market today. |
Originally Posted by Greg B
(Post 9943559)
We have been selling the 21 speeds for $375. To me, that's still pricey but it is a good deal considering. I like OS engines because it's a proprietary product of Great Planes, much like Losi or Spektrum is with Horizon. These type of companies will be around for the duration.
I've never tried the Werks but have sold a few. There are simply alot of good budget engines on the market today. Lets use the B6 Pro as an example vs the OS Speed. I can get the B6 Pro for about $210 here locally and the OS Speed For about $400. So someone please chime in on case,crank,sleeve material, heatsink, carb design, bearings used etc etc......just in actual materials alone what does double the price get me if I go with the name brand "O.S." vs the Werks engine? Nothing. Just as an example. Too many engines in the $200 range that have just as much performance and will last just as long if not longer than a "name brand" OS engine. Just find the power characteristics your looking for in an engine and you will be 100% competitive(assuming your driving skills r up to snuff ;) ) |
Several very good options
Settle down guys. I have to agree with Ron and say that most 98% of problems are user related when it comes to motor issues. I have been racing nitro for a long time and have run Novas, Rb, OS, OPS/radical, ninja, speeds, alpha, Go, and now I have a B6 that I will run next time I race.
Everyone of these engines have performed well and were more then capable to help me be competitive. I have only had a few mechanical failures and maybe only one early on in the engine life. All of these engines performed and tuned just fine up to the point that they are just worn out. Some engines I have liked better than others, but that was simply because of the performance characteristics and the power band that I prefer. I will say this. If you pay for your motors and spend more than $300 I think you are wasting money these days with all the great options in the $200-300 range. I think most of the racers would be just as fast with sub $200 motor like many of the 3ports. I would never pay for a high dollar OS or RB again with todays great options. |
True
and most of the engines that friends at the track askme to tune are very dirty. Dirt in and around the glowplug hole, and ee case, leaky carb or somewhere....weird clutch setup...and make for a difficult to tune engine
I may throw a new plug in it. and get running ok, but once an engine has been dogged out, it just never runs good again, no matter what brand it is.... |
Every engine is going to have issues sometimes, its the nature of manufacturing and the Precision needed for these engine to run right.
WE are lucky to have so many great choices on engines and engines are truly a personal preference thing. I know guys that have had 3 novas and had terrible luck and switched to O.S and havent been happier, also I know guys that swithced from O.S to Werks and are very happy. So what one person like the other may not.... I know guys that swear there is something wrong with there engine, flameouts, poor idle, etc.. I get it and the tune is completly off and engine when tuned correctly runs perfect. And this happens ALL the time....With all kinds of brands.. So I think people need to not always assume because 5 guys at there track have problems with Brand X engine that its always the engines fault.... Take it with a grain of salt and know that they may not get the tuning of that particular brand engine, Have another component effecting the engine causing issues (tank, lines etc..).. BUt the Problem My customers have day in and day out with the New O.S arent that they wont tune or run right, its just that they are losing compression to the point they will not run in a very short amount of time. But I think the problem( and this is from my customers not me) is is when you spend $400 on an engine and it lasts for 2 gallons or less(being properly tuned and maintained) people just dont think that Is a resonable return on there investment..... And dont get me wrong I know lots of guys who love the new O.S enignes but The BUzz I am hearing more and more lately is that Its just not worth the money for what you get. Especially now that there are a lot of great choices for less that performance wise are comparable. But there is no correct answer to which is better, its personal preference. I Like a lot of different engines, and I am not saying the O.S is a bad engine, its not. But something is going on with the manufacturing process and the piston/ sleeve tolerances being inconsistant. And not with all of them but quite a few. BUt After I resize them they are back up and running again... Lance RcRenew |
well
I've been noticing the OS .21 engines loosing compression for a loong time.
The original v spec came out in 2004 and it had similar problems as the new speed. I think the buzzzzz has been around for a long time. http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline23.html |
Originally Posted by merdith6
(Post 9945234)
I've been noticing the OS .21 engines loosing compression for a loong time.
The original v spec came out in 2004 and it had similar problems as the new speed. I think the buzzzzz has been around for a long time. http://www.osengines.com/history/ostimeline23.html This is just what I see, and hear from Talking with customers and working on engine every day. But then again 80% of my customers are not RcTech members. There is a whole lot of other opinions in the world than whats on Rc-Tech.. Lance RcRenew.com |
Originally Posted by got_nitro
(Post 9943500)
To say that werks engines or any engine for that matter needs a person that knows what they are doing to tune them is a cop out for a existing problem that no one has fixed IMO. "User error" can be used (no pun) on anything you do in life. The people I know that tried them are not noob's to the game. Most all of them have years of racing under their belts. They bought werks budget engines to save money but the fact of the matter is they are out even more now because they had to sell them for 1/2 of what they paid and spend more on O.S.
There really is no point in bickering with you because I was not "talking a bunch of mess" about your engines. I was simply stating a fact of what I see and hear. Now, I understand this is a "this VS that" thread but when a question like (what engine will last longer, o.s or werks?) and the owner of werks comes in and says this: You can bet your butt people like myself are going to chime in and post either what they know first hand, see at tracks or what friends of there's are experiencing from owning it. I know there will always be factory defects, thats a given. My experience is I don't see the factory defects in o.s. nearly as often as any other, not just yours. You can call me o.s "vaulted fan boy" all you choose! I will take that label and wear it proud!:nod::nod: You said "To say that werks engines or any engine for that matter needs a person that knows what they are doing to tune them is a cop out for a existing problem that no one has fixed IMO". That is in my opinion the biggest load of crock ever. We are not dealing with a brushless electric motor here where all you need to do is plug the battery in, you have to actually adjust a carburetor and if you adjust it wrong, you will damage your engine! Different brands of engines and their carburetors specifically tune differently and it takes time to learn how work with each one. Engines are also quite sensitive to a multitude of things including tune, lubricants used in the fuels, air filtration, temperatures run at etc. etc. Prime example is AAC construction engines, they make more power, run much cooler and basically kick arse when it comes to racing performance. Run the too lean or over heat them 1 time though and the motor is toast because the sleeve deforms and does not seal effectively anymore. Is that user error or just a "cop out for an existing problem" as you say? No it is simply a by product of the materials used in the engine to maximize performance which means that if you are using this type of equipment, you better know what you are doing with the screw driver! This is an on-road type of engine but it is a valid example. People for years have gotten away in the off-road arena without really understanding how to tune engines simply because the engines were not really pushed hard for performance. Well guess what, when you need longer run time, tune becomes more critical. When you need better performance, tune becomes more critical. When you want longer engine life when pushing your engine for better performance and run time, you guessed it tune becomes more critical! 90% of the engines that you hear running around an off-road track lean bogging, running on etc. etc. would have grenaded if they were on an on-road track. Because they are not being pushed so hard as on an on-road track they do not blow up, but there is damage done.... Part of the reason that I decided to comment on your post initially was because of the type of comments you make like this "The people I know that tried them are not noob's to the game. They bought werks budget engines to save money but the fact of the matter is they are out even more now because they had to sell them for 1/2 of what they paid and spend more on O.S.". I'm not even going to touch on the "werks budget engines" comment but as I've mentioned several times in the past we race with exactly the same engines that we sell to the consumers. So if Kortz gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Bradley gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Mo Denton gets an engine, a box is simly pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If your local hobby shop orders and engine, a box is again simply pulled off the shelf and sent to thim. So we sell exactly the same engines that we race with. We do not go through them. We do not pull them from a special inventory. We do now use special parts. We just pull a sealed box out of stock and send it off to the driver so customer xyz has the same likely hood of getting a specific engine as Kortz or any of our other drivers do. So then the questions becomes why if what you are saying is correct and what I said is "just a cop out for a problem that has not been fixed" how is it that we are having no problems at all? Can you please explain that to me? When I randomly pull an engine off the shelf to send to the team guys do you think that we are getting the box with the golden ticket in it every time? If so then I should start playing the lottery and leave this mess behind lol. You went on to say "My experience is I don't see the factory defects in o.s. nearly as often as any other, not just yours.". I'm not sure how long you have been in the industry but based on my experience that is not correct. The engine line that I have seen have the least amount of factory defects over the years has been RB. That's just me being honest because contrary to what you might be thinking none of this is about me running around with my head up in the clouds thinking that we make the best stuff in the world and my butt does not stink lol. I try to be honest about everything and if I found that there was an identifiable issue with any of our products I would be one of the first manufacturers to stand up to acknowledge it and then promptly resolve it because that is how I do things. I will say though that what I have seen first hand at the tracks in regards to OS reliability and life expectancy has been completely different than yours specifically in regards to the new generation of engines. The main reason for this is imho a by product of the sleeve design and specifically the taper that they are using in the Speed II which is going to make the engines much more sensitive to being run too lean so....ironically considering what we have been bickering about but proper tune is going to become much, much more important with that engine too lol! Might I be wrong, yes. But knowing what I do know about engines you do not see me running around relaying the horror stories that I have heard about any specific brand. Instead what you hear me saying is that the vast majority of engine related issues are tuning related, because frankly they are. None of us what I would call established manufacturers are going to put out junk. None of us are going to continue shipping products that we know have defects and/or issues. It simply does not make sense for us to do so! If we know that there is a problem we will fix it and be done with it and to think anything otherwise is akin to tying to convince everybody that there was a second shooter that killed Kennedy or something like that.:nod: So when it comes down to which engine a person should buy. Get the one that you want. Educate your self, read the forums so that you can see what the day to day posts are about the engines. You will learn a lot more about what works and what does not by doing that than you will asking people for their opinions because you at least see people that actually have the engines discussing things rather than getting 3rd hand opinions from people that have never even used the product! |
Originally Posted by Werks
(Post 9945447)
In regards to my initial comment that riled you up, I was just kidding.
You said "To say that werks engines or any engine for that matter needs a person that knows what they are doing to tune them is a cop out for a existing problem that no one has fixed IMO". That is in my opinion the biggest load of crock ever. We are not dealing with a brushless electric motor here where all you need to do is plug the battery in, you have to actually adjust a carburetor and if you adjust it wrong, you will damage your engine! Different brands of engines and their carburetors specifically tune differently and it takes time to learn how work with each one. Engines are also quite sensitive to a multitude of things including tune, lubricants used in the fuels, air filtration, temperatures run at etc. etc. Prime example is AAC construction engines, they make more power, run much cooler and basically kick arse when it comes to racing performance. Run the too lean or over heat them 1 time though and the motor is toast because the sleeve deforms and does not seal effectively anymore. Is that user error or just a "cop out for an existing problem" as you say? No it is simply a by product of the materials used in the engine to maximize performance which means that if you are using this type of equipment, you better know what you are doing with the screw driver! This is an on-road type of engine but it is a valid example. People for years have gotten away in the off-road arena without really understanding how to tune engines simply because the engines were not really pushed hard for performance. Well guess what, when you need longer run time, tune becomes more critical. When you need better performance, tune becomes more critical. When you want longer engine life when pushing your engine for better performance and run time, you guessed it tune becomes more critical! 90% of the engines that you hear running around an off-road track lean bogging, running on etc. etc. would have grenaded if they were on an on-road track. Because they are not being pushed so hard as on an on-road track they do not blow up, but there is damage done.... Part of the reason that I decided to comment on your post initially was because of the type of comments you make like this "The people I know that tried them are not noob's to the game. They bought werks budget engines to save money but the fact of the matter is they are out even more now because they had to sell them for 1/2 of what they paid and spend more on O.S.". I'm not even going to touch on the "werks budget engines" comment but as I've mentioned several times in the past we race with exactly the same engines that we sell to the consumers. So if Kortz gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Bradley gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Mo Denton gets an engine, a box is simly pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If your local hobby shop orders and engine, a box is again simply pulled off the shelf and sent to thim. So we sell exactly the same engines that we race with. We do not go through them. We do not pull them from a special inventory. We do now use special parts. We just pull a sealed box out of stock and send it off to the driver so customer xyz has the same likely hood of getting a specific engine as Kortz or any of our other drivers do. So then the questions becomes why if what you are saying is correct and what I said is "just a cop out for a problem that has not been fixed" how is it that we are having no problems at all? Can you please explain that to me? When I randomly pull an engine off the shelf to send to the team guys do you think that we are getting the box with the golden ticket in it every time? If so then I should start playing the lottery and leave this mess behind lol. You went on to say "My experience is I don't see the factory defects in o.s. nearly as often as any other, not just yours.". I'm not sure how long you have been in the industry but based on my experience that is not correct. The engine line that I have seen have the least amount of factory defects over the years has been RB. That's just me being honest because contrary to what you might be thinking none of this is about me running around with my head up in the clouds thinking that we make the best stuff in the world and my butt does not stink lol. I try to be honest about everything and if I found that there was an identifiable issue with any of our products I would be one of the first manufacturers to stand up to acknowledge it and then promptly resolve it because that is how I do things. I will say though that what I have seen first hand at the tracks in regards to OS reliability and life expectancy has been completely different than yours specifically in regards to the new generation of engines. The main reason for this is imho a by product of the sleeve design and specifically the taper that they are using in the Speed II which is going to make the engines much more sensitive to being run too lean so....ironically considering what we have been bickering about but proper tune is going to become much, much more important with that engine too lol! Might I be wrong, yes. But knowing what I do know about engines you do not see me running around relaying the horror stories that I have heard about any specific brand. Instead what you hear me saying is that the vast majority of engine related issues are tuning related, because frankly they are. None of us what I would call established manufacturers are going to put out junk. None of us are going to continue shipping products that we know have defects and/or issues. It simply does not make sense for us to do so! If we know that there is a problem we will fix it and be done with it and to think anything otherwise is akin to tying to convince everybody that there was a second shooter that killed Kennedy or something like that.:nod: So when it comes down to which engine a person should buy. Get the one that you want. Educate your self, read the forums so that you can see what the day to day posts are about the engines. You will learn a lot more about what works and what does not by doing that than you will asking people for their opinions because you at least see people that actually have the engines discussing things rather than getting 3rd hand opinions from people that have never even used the product! |
That was a great dissertation speach premed werks!:lol: Still dosen't change what I see and hear from friends I have known for many years. I pit with them/they pit with me, drive to tracks with and invite over to my home for dinner and family functions. I see it all first hand, it is what it is.... To be clear, NO ONE is bashing your product, just calling it as I see it. There was no need to defend anything in here werks, I don't understand why you feel the need to do such. This is a forum and people are allowed opinions and facts based on personal experiences and what they see first hand period.
Good day Sir.:cool: |
Originally Posted by got_nitro
(Post 9945700)
That was a great dissertation speach premed werks!:lol: Still dosen't change what I see and hear from friends I have known for many years. I pit with them/they pit with me, drive to tracks with and invite over to my home for dinner and family functions. I see it all first hand, it is what it is.... To be clear, NO ONE is bashing your product, just calling it as I see it. There was no need to defend anything in here werks, I don't understand why you feel the need to do such. This is a forum and people are allowed opinions and facts based on personal experiences and what they see first hand period.
Good day Sir.:cool: I wouldn't even bother responding to this guy....... :lol: Everything he "calls and sees" comes from directly behind his computer screen, not from real world experience from owning a mill or any hands on experience or " imaginary friends" at "imaginary tracks". :lol: How is that high end performance VG mill treatin ya? :lol: |
true
Originally Posted by got_nitro
(Post 9945700)
That was a great dissertation speach premed werks!:lol: Still dosen't change what I see and hear from friends I have known for many years. I pit with them/they pit with me, drive to tracks with and invite over to my home for dinner and family functions. I see it all first hand, it is what it is.... To be clear, NO ONE is bashing your product, just calling it as I see it. There was no need to defend anything in here werks, I don't understand why you feel the need to do such. This is a forum and people are allowed opinions and facts based on personal experiences and what they see first hand period.
Good day Sir.:cool: |
Originally Posted by Werks
(Post 9945447)
Part of the reason that I decided to comment on your post initially was because of the type of comments you make like this "The people I know that tried them are not noob's to the game. They bought werks budget engines to save money but the fact of the matter is they are out even more now because they had to sell them for 1/2 of what they paid and spend more on O.S.". I'm not even going to touch on the "werks budget engines" comment but as I've mentioned several times in the past we race with exactly the same engines that we sell to the consumers. So if Kortz gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Bradley gets and engine, a box is simply pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If Mo Denton gets an engine, a box is simly pulled off the shelf and sent to him. If your local hobby shop orders and engine, a box is again simply pulled off the shelf and sent to thim. So we sell exactly the same engines that we race with. We do not go through them. We do not pull them from a special inventory. We do now use special parts. We just pull a sealed box out of stock and send it off to the driver so customer xyz has the same likely hood of getting a specific engine as Kortz or any of our other drivers do. So then the questions becomes why if what you are saying is correct and what I said is "just a cop out for a problem that has not been fixed" how is it that we are having no problems at all? Can you please explain that to me? When I randomly pull an engine off the shelf to send to the team guys do you think that we are getting the box with the golden ticket in it every time? If so then I should start playing the lottery and leave this mess behind lol. my 2cs |
omg go drive ur prius ^^.....werks hurt my feelings hes not nice he said his engines are not junk......I for one have never seen Ron set a bad example to anyone ever...or seen a bunch of foul language come out of his mouth at anyone eighter...he has a right to defend his own company in any way he sees fit. I have ran em all and I really like my werks line of engines I came from speeds prior which are great mills as well but for the price tag I do not see where they get off costing so much....I talk to Ron on a weekly basis over the phone and he has never once come across as a "meanie" :ha:
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Well, at some point and time, you gotta stand up for yourself just as Ron has done. At one time, I had 3-venues going. Working at a hobby shop part-time, working for RC Driver magazine and on the Hot Bodies team. I was suppose to set the example or as some thought, but I'm human just like everyone else and when you step on my toes or slap my face, you're going to know it. At this point and time with everything a person has to put up with in this industry is way out of line. I have done a little of everything in my lifetime but this industry is full of more idiots and whiners than any one thing I've seen in my life.
Should people in the industry turn the other cheek ? Yes, but when both cheeks are sore it's time to stand up. |
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