so if you gonna be lean on one of the needles it better to be lean on the low end?

lean is a relative term.... its not good to be lean on any needle.

what I mean by a lean LSN would be it can idle till the cows come home with no change in RPM and revs up without needing to be "cleaned out" BUT the HSN will need to be ran on the rich side (another relative term) to prevent overheating and or flaming. This tuneup gives the best runtime and "touch" power in my experience. But some engines dont like this tuneup, so there's more variables than can be typed here. Anytime someone brings their engine to me locally to tune I always start with the clean and lean bottom ad see how the engine likes it.... if it doesnt ill go the other direction. Rich LSN's can easily be spotted by a varying idle speed after full temp is reached. I run my engines with both tunes depending on the track etc etc

I plan on doing a few vids on youtube to clearly show the differences, its very easy to spot the differences once you see them.

I don't know how you guys do it by tone. I do kinda know by sound when its running to rich but as far as which needle you got me. Cuz when it's gurgling it's too rich right?

On a side note. When I ask the pros at the tracks for a little advice they tell me " I don't run a orion I run a werks or I don't drive a associated I rock losi" so it's kind of a turn off to ask guys that are actually there and now I have to try and have a conversation with some one in cali or australia. I do appreciate the help guys just alittle agro with the local pros.

Better get these out before you all loose interest. Thanks for all input

Im sticking to my original diagnosis... see how the coil of the plug is grey/white and dull not shiny? That is too lean on the HSN. Ive never seen an engine turn color like that from a LSN thats too lean.

I recommend starting with a new plug then richen the HSN til it sounds like it swimming in fuel.... then lean your bottom and lower the idle until you get 3-4 seconds doing the pinch test 1" from the nipple at idle fully warmed up. Get the bottom stable then start bringing in the HSN slowly. It may take a full turn on both by the time your done.... no telling. You can get the bottom in the ballpark faster if you want to set your idle gap to around 1mm or slightly less, find a paperclip or something thats about the right size. If it fires and wont idle, start leaning the LSN until it will. When you rev it cold it should rev and then sound super rich, if it does your in the neighborhood, it should immediately drop to a nice low idle.... if it sits up high then drops after a few seconds, keep leaning the bottom and lowering the idle.

That sucks your locals are too busy being rockstars to take 5 mins to help someone.

Thanks man. I appreciate the help. I'll give it a go after I clean and rebuild. And that plug might have 15min on it to.

What kind of fuel are you running?

I started with byrons 30-11. But now I'm running werks 30

This thread couldn't have come at a better time. I found this thread by chance via a random google search. I have a
Xtech EB Mods Pro engine and pipe in my truggy. It was running absurdly crazy fast when the temps decided to drop. My tune was lost and i became confused. I asked the guys at my track why my engine sounded funny coming off the straight... Basically i would let off the throttle amd it seemed like there were three levels to my low end tune. It would drop a pitch until the engine would sputter and die. So i searched all over the net trying to figure out and learn what was going on. I found my answer on youtube via a horizon hobby engine tuning video. Turns out my engine finally broke in at 2 gallons and when it did this my lsn became super rich. So far i have turnes my lsn 3 full turns back (one turn mean a full 360 degree rotation of the needle). My engine now idles well again and can make my truggy wheelie. Temps are a nice 220 at empty tank, and the top end sounds like i have room to grow. Sadly my air filrter came off so i shut down my engine amd took her apart. I found tons of black carbon at the top of the piston. So i did a search of what this meant and thats how i found this thread... Awsome!!!!

So whats the purpose of removing the extra head shim after break in??

There would be no purpose, not unless you wanted to run a lower % of nitro and a different plug.

There is a purpose.....
At maximum pinch there is also a maximum compression. When the engine is broken in and the pinch is (almost) gone the piston is actually floating on an oil layer in the sleeve. The huge pressure of the combustion can push some along the side of the piston so there is a tiny compression loss. That can be compensated by removing one shim.

But it is all about how the engine is configured at the start, some engines have that extra shimm from the start, some do add an extra shim in the box, some do advise to use an extra shim and others do not anything.

Carbon build up on the top of the piston could also be "compensation" for more compression. That dosent mean if you dont want to clean the build up off the top of the piston, you have to ADD a shim either. If you have to remove a head shim to make up for power loss due to a worn sleeve, (in the end thats what your saying to do) then you would HAVE to run a lower % of nitro and change to a lower heat plug. If you dont you could have some pre-det happening. You dont want the top of the piston to start to pit. Not to mention the unnecessary stress and wear you will be putting on the rod and wrist pin. In the end it's beter to have the sleeve pinched, not remove a shim on the same plug and fuel.

Now, if there is a engine out there that requires you to remove a head shim after break in, thats a first to me. I have never used one.

almost all engines are over shimmed from factory....

Maximo, I respect your opinion but that could be considered a blanket statment. That could be a "how long does one want a engine to last, how much power do you want out of it and how much money do you have" thing. All the big name engines I have personally seen the internals of all only came with one or 2 shims to begin with.