6LikesWHAT MOTORS ARE LEGAL FOR 1/8 GT???
06-24-2016, 07:50 AM
#16
The idea is not new. In a far past with a onroad 1/10 235 worlds some drivers did show up with 5 port motors while only 3 port were alowed. Bridges were cut out to combine 2 ports as one.
06-24-2016, 08:23 AM
#17
06-24-2016, 08:43 AM
#18
GT engine 'legality'
Yep, and no 5 + 2 motors either. I talked with ROAR about it a couple years ago when the rules first came out. MES ports are not intake ports but ROAR said they were ports. A good Bonito would do the trick and outperform most GT motors for $245 no mods required. I agree that ROAR just needs to open the regs to any 21. Murnan has a modified R2101 and he grinds sleeve area away to combine ports to make it a 5 port. And that motor is about $550. So, so much for keeping prices down. It's racing and we are going to do what we need to do to get the power out of our 5 ports. It would be cheaper to just open the regs and say "NO MODS" to keep the prices down. Plus, let get rid of chassis kick-up. They are not buggies and all the manufactures had to make new chassis anyway. Adding the kick up requires one more step in manufacturing process not saving anyone money.
I didn't worry about the 'upper level' dudes, it was well known that the 'top dogs' were running 'mods' since the GT class started and 'the little guys' just needed to get out of the way. 'Engine Tech' was the issue to have 'no mods' allowed. That was viewed as a 'no go'.........'who's going to do it', 'who's going to pay for it'. Nope, I think we've arrived at a livable point in GT. 'Buggy based cars' with 'kickup' should remain. All of the manufacturers have dealt with the demonic caster angle except Kyosho.
My engine builder voiced the same sentiment that Maximo stated, a 7mm inlet limits the upper end of any engine and puts a good 5 port mod within striking distance of the 7 and 9 port motors. I've got a 7 port/ now 5 port that I parked and went back to the 5 port he had built earlier, I just get along better with it. For there to be a 'level playing field', the GT class would have to run the exact same motor like the Honda Go Kart class. I am not in favor of that since all of our engine manufactures have pulled out all the stops in GT engine development and some very fine engines are available. I think that is what caused our thread initiator's query.
Race well my friends......
Last edited by scary_jerry; 06-24-2016 at 08:46 AM. Reason: typo
06-25-2016, 03:53 AM
#21
I know its the fastest growing class. I hadn't run onroad in 15+ plus years do to cost and I mostly run offroad. Once I saw the GT class, I said that looks like fun and I can use my buggy motors and rubber tires. I believe down in S. America they are running two classes. Maybe we can do the same in the future. ROAR is just slow at change. They need to be like the FIA and Formula one with rules changing every year, LOL--Just kidding. They need to update their rule book every other years too instead of just doing separated updates. Their last full rewrite was in 2013.
06-25-2016, 04:23 AM
#22
There is nothing wrong with older rules if they are clear and determed by common sense. These rules with the intention te make it affordable and more equal should not alow backdoors.
06-25-2016, 04:29 AM
#23
the rules did not help one bit....first expensive onroad engines wont help with a offroad manifold anyways ...and second everyone is still spending the same amount of money as they would have......So in the end all the rules did was needlessly slow the cars down and make the sport less exciting....it didn't save anyone any money, it just made the class slower and less exciting... something the ruling bodies have been doing little by little over the last decade...Pipes that value nose reduction over power, low nitro % and now small carb inserts and a stupidly retarded and ignorant 5 port rule..........by the time these guys are done we will be running 0% nitro and not allowed tuned pipes, only mufflers..lets make them as quiet as electrics and knock the performance back 3 decades....
06-25-2016, 05:35 AM
#24
The most stupid person I think responsable for the negative effects of noise canceling is Sander de Graaf.
As EFRA exhaust homologation officer he legalized exhausts making much more noise than the determed 83dB for many years and at the moment id did become serious loud there was no way to make huge steps. It was tryed with the EFRA 30xx pipes which were a disaster and finally did cost a lot of mony on manufacturers and drivers while the EFRA did gain about 20.000 euro of homologation fees but I had good results with the 3036 pipe (is like 2031).
Today many (too) loud noise 3 chamber pipes are listed but there is one low noise pipe which actially has a good performance, even better on Novarossi 5 port engines than the 2015. It is the Hipex 2095
As EFRA exhaust homologation officer he legalized exhausts making much more noise than the determed 83dB for many years and at the moment id did become serious loud there was no way to make huge steps. It was tryed with the EFRA 30xx pipes which were a disaster and finally did cost a lot of mony on manufacturers and drivers while the EFRA did gain about 20.000 euro of homologation fees but I had good results with the 3036 pipe (is like 2031).
Today many (too) loud noise 3 chamber pipes are listed but there is one low noise pipe which actially has a good performance, even better on Novarossi 5 port engines than the 2015. It is the Hipex 2095
06-25-2016, 06:08 AM
#25
The most stupid person I think responsable for the negative effects of noise canceling is Sander de Graaf.
As EFRA exhaust homologation officer he legalized exhausts making much more noise than the determed 83dB for many years and at the moment id did become serious loud there was no way to make huge steps. It was tryed with the EFRA 30xx pipes which were a disaster and finally did cost a lot of mony on manufacturers and drivers while the EFRA did gain about 20.000 euro of homologation fees but I had good results with the 3036 pipe (is like 2031).
Today many (too) loud noise 3 chamber pipes are listed but there is one low noise pipe which actially has a good performance, even better on Novarossi 5 port engines than the 2015. It is the Hipex 2095
As EFRA exhaust homologation officer he legalized exhausts making much more noise than the determed 83dB for many years and at the moment id did become serious loud there was no way to make huge steps. It was tryed with the EFRA 30xx pipes which were a disaster and finally did cost a lot of mony on manufacturers and drivers while the EFRA did gain about 20.000 euro of homologation fees but I had good results with the 3036 pipe (is like 2031).
Today many (too) loud noise 3 chamber pipes are listed but there is one low noise pipe which actially has a good performance, even better on Novarossi 5 port engines than the 2015. It is the Hipex 2095
IMO nitro RC is at an all time low.. IMO any rules that take away excitement and action are bad... making cars slower for the purpose of reducing cost is a bad idea simply because its not effective, the most expensive onroad engines on the market lose all their advantages when they are mated to a offroad manifold, and many of the cheap budget 7 ports will end up making more power then the most expensive onroad engines.... I can of course verify this with dyno data... Currently the rule has only resulted in the creation of specialty GT 5 ports that are every bit as costly as the onroad models they were trying to exclude and 95% of the GT racers are still buying the most expensive models anyways........ So all the rule has done has excluded engines that will offer no real advantage anyways and then enforced the use of a 7mm insert that just needlessly slows the cars down...... So now the guys are still paying just as much money as before but the cars are now slower... IMO many of the rules just take away the motivation for innovation, which today is what nitro needs more then anything else....
06-25-2016, 06:44 AM
#26
If ROAR or which ever governing body wants to make this a stock class of nitro racing, they need to get a single manufacture to make a spec motor that can not be modified. But than there will be pissing and moaning that one manufacture got the contract just like what happen when Pirelli got the tire contract for F1. Lots of bitching but now every one is used to it. Or how about this. Get a spec on the stroke, bore, piston, and sleeve and let all the manufactures make an engine to those specs. For example, 5 port, intake ports can have a maximum area of XXX and exhaust port have a maximum area of XXX. Then all the manufactures could make a motor. If they are wanting to keep it cheap, than how about a Novarossi Top Elite 5 port off road non modified. $135 spec motor.
Last edited by invrtd; 06-25-2016 at 06:54 AM.
06-25-2016, 06:52 AM
#27
Then you come to a blue printed engine. An engine design which can be made by any manufacturer.
06-25-2016, 07:29 AM
#28
IMO the best course of action is to allow for natural selection.... design a engine that has optimal possible performance for the GT cars with no insert regulations...Allow the class to be everything it can possibly be, these guys are buying expensive engines anyways so why not just design the engines to perform for the application instead of being designed to meet some arbitrary rule.....if a manufacturer gets too greedy and starts charging too much it just opens the door for another manufacturer to offer a similar engine at a lower price... Just let the consumer regulate the market and allow it to evolve by natural selection... The ideal engines would end up being a 7 port with timing profiles between a Truggy engine and a Onroad engine...Manifold length being the limiting factor on how high of a exhaust timing you can effectively run as once you go past that threshold the engines start rapidly losing power..Really at the end of the day the same racers are winning are going to continue winning the races no matter what engine rules are in place.....I am a old school guy who started in tether line airplanes and IMO there is nothing better then the scream of a badass nitro engine, So for me I am all about making the most of everything of we run, its not like engines are really that expensive these days... and no matter how well intentioned these rules are your never going to take away the advantages a wealthy racer has over a poor racer all other things equal. So yeah IMO let the cream rise to the top, let the market decide what they want to run and lets start designing engines that are optimized for the application unfettered by rules and regulations.......
Last edited by Maximo; 06-25-2016 at 07:42 AM.