9LikesMugen Seiki Racing's Nitro MGT7
07-05-2017, 10:15 AM
#436
Tech Apprentice
You can try the 42/12 to start if you like. I have gone to the 44/12 set up because of the acceleration gain's.
I would definitely go to harder spring's. Especially if your track has a decent amount of grip.
Try Mugen blue all round or even Mugen White's all round.
Once you've done this and the rear lower suspension pin placement and camber's. You can start looking at diff oils.
Try different oils but try to remember these few point's.
Always try to put the same amount of oil in each time you fill.
Check for leaks each time and make sure your outdrives and drive pin's/ shafts are in good mechanical shape!
Choose a front oil, say 1Mill, if that's what you've been running, and stick with that for now and concentrate on the rear.
When choosing rear oil. Go real thin to start. You need to watch the car at corner entry, when off power or braking. The car will probably be a little loose (over steering) with the very thin oil. Don't worry too much about mid or corner exit for now. Just corner entry.
If the car is loose at entry. You need to go thicker on the oil. Keep doing this until your corner entry is stable and you like the feel of the rear of the car going in.
Now go to the front diff. Thicker your front diff, = less turn in Thinner front oil = better turn in.
Again. Concentrate on corner entry first.
When you get the front how you like your entry and the rear is still stable. Your getting close....... :-) You'll be able to go thicker all round if traction is high.
Remember. With the rear diff. Thicker oil will give you over steer at corner exit. Too thin will give you over steer at corner entry. :-)
Hope this help's. Sound's as though you have a really good engine so you may be able to pull 44/12 down your main straight but if your engine and clutch can pull the slower corners with 42/12? .... go with that.
Also. There are many ways to go about setting up a car, especially where diff's are concerned. I have just pointed one way of doing it.
Good luck.
Regards
BM
I would definitely go to harder spring's. Especially if your track has a decent amount of grip.
Try Mugen blue all round or even Mugen White's all round.
Once you've done this and the rear lower suspension pin placement and camber's. You can start looking at diff oils.
Try different oils but try to remember these few point's.
Always try to put the same amount of oil in each time you fill.
Check for leaks each time and make sure your outdrives and drive pin's/ shafts are in good mechanical shape!
Choose a front oil, say 1Mill, if that's what you've been running, and stick with that for now and concentrate on the rear.
When choosing rear oil. Go real thin to start. You need to watch the car at corner entry, when off power or braking. The car will probably be a little loose (over steering) with the very thin oil. Don't worry too much about mid or corner exit for now. Just corner entry.
If the car is loose at entry. You need to go thicker on the oil. Keep doing this until your corner entry is stable and you like the feel of the rear of the car going in.
Now go to the front diff. Thicker your front diff, = less turn in Thinner front oil = better turn in.
Again. Concentrate on corner entry first.
When you get the front how you like your entry and the rear is still stable. Your getting close....... :-) You'll be able to go thicker all round if traction is high.
Remember. With the rear diff. Thicker oil will give you over steer at corner exit. Too thin will give you over steer at corner entry. :-)
Hope this help's. Sound's as though you have a really good engine so you may be able to pull 44/12 down your main straight but if your engine and clutch can pull the slower corners with 42/12? .... go with that.
Also. There are many ways to go about setting up a car, especially where diff's are concerned. I have just pointed one way of doing it.
Good luck.
Regards
BM
thanks for all the help. Heading track today to try it all out.
07-05-2017, 02:17 PM
#437
Tech Regular
BM, you pointed out some good things on here, which may or may not be part of the problem, especially tear and wear on the drivetrain. The pins and cups are wearing out real fast on the MGT7, I usually change them at least every two races. If the cups are marked, the suspension stops working as it should, your car will start kicking and the rear end definitly is going to be unsettled and might even brake loose.
About the diff oils, comment from my side. i have found the car to be less consistent with heavier oils in the rear diff mostly because when you loose it, it's gone. For example with 1 million to 500k, the rear breaks out, there is just no way you get it back under control, it just slides, slides and spins...
Comment about tires, we use here in Brazil mostly either Alpha or Taher tires. They both are made in Brazil and are pretty good, and Taher will be the offical tire for the World Cup in Argentina. If you can get your hands on some of them, you might be surprised. As far as I know, the Alphas are as well sold as Flashpoint tires through Mugen...
About the diff oils, comment from my side. i have found the car to be less consistent with heavier oils in the rear diff mostly because when you loose it, it's gone. For example with 1 million to 500k, the rear breaks out, there is just no way you get it back under control, it just slides, slides and spins...
Comment about tires, we use here in Brazil mostly either Alpha or Taher tires. They both are made in Brazil and are pretty good, and Taher will be the offical tire for the World Cup in Argentina. If you can get your hands on some of them, you might be surprised. As far as I know, the Alphas are as well sold as Flashpoint tires through Mugen...
07-05-2017, 03:36 PM
#438
Yes. I found the wear of the drive pin's just recently. Mainly on the central drive shaft's but also on the wheel drive shafts too, but to a lesser extent. Is it me or don't they last as long as they used to?
I have used the Alpha tire's and they were for me at least, my goto tire for consistency in my early GT day's!
I have never, until now, heard of the "Taher tires" Are they made from natural or synthetic rubber do you know?
Yes. I agree. I have only once used 300K oil in the rear with, at the time, 2.5Mill in the front. The track had ridiculously high traction which I think was why I was able to run it so thick.
I only had a hint of exit over steer with it but I have never ran it that high in the rear since!
I need to re-look at running the really low oil in the rear as I have heard one or two say they have had some success with it.
Need to do some testing.
Right now ..... I'm enjoying running my F1 car's
Regards
BM
I have used the Alpha tire's and they were for me at least, my goto tire for consistency in my early GT day's!
I have never, until now, heard of the "Taher tires" Are they made from natural or synthetic rubber do you know?
Yes. I agree. I have only once used 300K oil in the rear with, at the time, 2.5Mill in the front. The track had ridiculously high traction which I think was why I was able to run it so thick.
I only had a hint of exit over steer with it but I have never ran it that high in the rear since!
I need to re-look at running the really low oil in the rear as I have heard one or two say they have had some success with it.
Need to do some testing.
Right now ..... I'm enjoying running my F1 car's
Regards
BM
07-06-2017, 03:07 AM
#439
Tech Apprentice
I made changes to the lower pin placement in the rear. it definitely helped. I felt I could cut through the corners better then before and it was more predictable. also ran with blue springs in the rear. I run 3mm and 9mm for the droop and no rebound in the shocks. should I make any adjustments to those?
07-06-2017, 06:12 AM
#440
Tech Regular
Yes. I found the wear of the drive pin's just recently. Mainly on the central drive shaft's but also on the wheel drive shafts too, but to a lesser extent. Is it me or don't they last as long as they used to?
I have used the Alpha tire's and they were for me at least, my goto tire for consistency in my early GT day's!
I have never, until now, heard of the "Taher tires" Are they made from natural or synthetic rubber do you know?
Yes. I agree. I have only once used 300K oil in the rear with, at the time, 2.5Mill in the front. The track had ridiculously high traction which I think was why I was able to run it so thick.
I only had a hint of exit over steer with it but I have never ran it that high in the rear since!
I need to re-look at running the really low oil in the rear as I have heard one or two say they have had some success with it.
Need to do some testing.
Right now ..... I'm enjoying running my F1 car's
Regards
BM
I have used the Alpha tire's and they were for me at least, my goto tire for consistency in my early GT day's!
I have never, until now, heard of the "Taher tires" Are they made from natural or synthetic rubber do you know?
Yes. I agree. I have only once used 300K oil in the rear with, at the time, 2.5Mill in the front. The track had ridiculously high traction which I think was why I was able to run it so thick.
I only had a hint of exit over steer with it but I have never ran it that high in the rear since!
I need to re-look at running the really low oil in the rear as I have heard one or two say they have had some success with it.
Need to do some testing.
Right now ..... I'm enjoying running my F1 car's
Regards
BM
About the pin's and cups. The are really wearing out fast, and i change the pins on the driveshafts (central and wheels) every second race with the Mugen tool. If you change the pins regularly, the cups (which are much more expensive) are lasting a bit longer, but still not as long as I would like them to. Wear is a lot higher on the complete drivetrain than in the offroad classes, and the wear is creating unwanted play in the drivetrain which affects once again performance. I don't know if other brands have the same wear ratio, but I definitly would like to see an improvement there.
07-07-2017, 02:10 PM
#441
Tech Apprentice
How much of the sway bar should be sticking out ? Or should the be flush?
Thanks
Thanks
07-07-2017, 04:03 PM
#442
You can vary the distance from the end of the bar. The more in from the end of the bar and it will act like a stiffer bar so you can use it as a tuning aid. I usually start mine so the links are straight up, so it would depend on your wheelbase spacing.
And you don't want to go to far in and case any bind in the links and bar. Ohh and make sure both sides are the same distance in.
07-08-2017, 04:05 AM
#443
I made changes to the lower pin placement in the rear. it definitely helped. I felt I could cut through the corners better then before and it was more predictable. also ran with blue springs in the rear. I run 3mm and 9mm for the droop and no rebound in the shocks. should I make any adjustments to those?
No rebound is fine. Some run a little re-bound (25%) But I personally, tend to run very little if any. Just make sure there is no air in them. Makes damping very inconsistent!
I forget right now what droop (down stop settings) I run on the car. How low are you running (ride height)?
Remember, once down travel of the suspension arm has reached a point where the spring is loose on it's perch, you are relying completely on how free the arm assembly is on the pivot shaft. So make sure to check your suspension arms are nice and free in movement when assembled with only little play.
Rectifying a handling issue on the car using down stop's can mask a problem you have in another area of the car. Don't get me wrong. Restricting or using down stop's and the amount of droop you give the axle can help tune a car and has it's place and time. But you need to make sure it's not something else first.
Did you alter the diff oils at all yet?
Regards
BM
07-08-2017, 04:13 AM
#444
If you want to try something with the rear of the car...... run say 10 laps with your set up now. Get a good feel for the handling of the car as it stands with out going crazy spinning out and running off, lol. The come in and remove the rear sway bar. You can just unclip one side and remove the link.
Then run the car again. Do a good number of laps to get warmth into the tires and see how she handles then.
Regards
BM
07-08-2017, 07:34 PM
#445
Tech Apprentice
Buku
Two things... has anybody tried the Buku clutch with the Mugen bell? Does it fit? Mugen bells are a bit smaller than regular clutch bells, having an inner diameter of 26mm compared to the usual 26,5mm.
About the rear end coming around, go heavy on front diff oil, but real low on rear. depending on track conditions, I run 1 million front, 10k rear (low/medium grip), and 500k front, max 30k rear on high grip.
About the rear end coming around, go heavy on front diff oil, but real low on rear. depending on track conditions, I run 1 million front, 10k rear (low/medium grip), and 500k front, max 30k rear on high grip.
07-10-2017, 03:19 AM
#446
Tech Apprentice
Glad to here the car is improving.
No rebound is fine. Some run a little re-bound (25%) But I personally, tend to run very little if any. Just make sure there is no air in them. Makes damping very inconsistent!
I forget right now what droop (down stop settings) I run on the car. How low are you running (ride height)?
Remember, once down travel of the suspension arm has reached a point where the spring is loose on it's perch, you are relying completely on how free the arm assembly is on the pivot shaft. So make sure to check your suspension arms are nice and free in movement when assembled with only little play.
Rectifying a handling issue on the car using down stop's can mask a problem you have in another area of the car. Don't get me wrong. Restricting or using down stop's and the amount of droop you give the axle can help tune a car and has it's place and time. But you need to make sure it's not something else first.
Did you alter the diff oils at all yet?
Regards
BM
No rebound is fine. Some run a little re-bound (25%) But I personally, tend to run very little if any. Just make sure there is no air in them. Makes damping very inconsistent!
I forget right now what droop (down stop settings) I run on the car. How low are you running (ride height)?
Remember, once down travel of the suspension arm has reached a point where the spring is loose on it's perch, you are relying completely on how free the arm assembly is on the pivot shaft. So make sure to check your suspension arms are nice and free in movement when assembled with only little play.
Rectifying a handling issue on the car using down stop's can mask a problem you have in another area of the car. Don't get me wrong. Restricting or using down stop's and the amount of droop you give the axle can help tune a car and has it's place and time. But you need to make sure it's not something else first.
Did you alter the diff oils at all yet?
Regards
BM
Raced yesterday and the car is much better. more consistent. I am running 3mm front droop and about 5mm rear droop. I have not tried different oils in rear diff yet. what front chassis brace is do most run? the short or long and what affect would each on have.
thanks
07-10-2017, 03:35 AM
#447
Can I just ask about your "droop" setting's.
When you state 3 and 5mm droop. Are you saying that's the height measurement when setting your down stops using Gage and block's. Or are you saying you can raise the front end 3mm from ride height before the front tires come off the ground? (and likewise 5mm on the rear before the rear tires come off the ground)?
Sorry. Just to clarify.
As far as front brace used. I usually run the long one. I like running the chassis as stiff as I can. I have run the short. I did not notice a great deal of difference to be honest. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to :-(
Regards
BM
07-10-2017, 03:40 AM
#448
Tech Apprentice
Thats great you had a good race over the weekend.
Can I just ask about your "droop" setting's.
When you state 3 and 5mm droop. Are you saying that's the height measurement when setting your down stops using Gage and block's. Or are you saying you can raise the front end 3mm from ride height before the front tires come off the ground? (and likewise 5mm on the rear before the rear tires come off the ground)?
Sorry. Just to clarify.
As far as front brace used. I usually run the long one. I like running the chassis as stiff as I can. I have run the short. I did not notice a great deal of difference to be honest. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to :-(
Regards
BM
Can I just ask about your "droop" setting's.
When you state 3 and 5mm droop. Are you saying that's the height measurement when setting your down stops using Gage and block's. Or are you saying you can raise the front end 3mm from ride height before the front tires come off the ground? (and likewise 5mm on the rear before the rear tires come off the ground)?
Sorry. Just to clarify.
As far as front brace used. I usually run the long one. I like running the chassis as stiff as I can. I have run the short. I did not notice a great deal of difference to be honest. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to :-(
Regards
BM
07-10-2017, 07:55 AM
#449
Tech Regular
Thats great you had a good race over the weekend.
Can I just ask about your "droop" setting's.
When you state 3 and 5mm droop. Are you saying that's the height measurement when setting your down stops using Gage and block's. Or are you saying you can raise the front end 3mm from ride height before the front tires come off the ground? (and likewise 5mm on the rear before the rear tires come off the ground)?
Sorry. Just to clarify.
As far as front brace used. I usually run the long one. I like running the chassis as stiff as I can. I have run the short. I did not notice a great deal of difference to be honest. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to :-(
Regards
BM
Can I just ask about your "droop" setting's.
When you state 3 and 5mm droop. Are you saying that's the height measurement when setting your down stops using Gage and block's. Or are you saying you can raise the front end 3mm from ride height before the front tires come off the ground? (and likewise 5mm on the rear before the rear tires come off the ground)?
Sorry. Just to clarify.
As far as front brace used. I usually run the long one. I like running the chassis as stiff as I can. I have run the short. I did not notice a great deal of difference to be honest. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough to :-(
Regards
BM
I run the short brace, depending on the track, I even desconnect the brace to have more flex for more turn-in
07-13-2017, 06:22 AM
#450
Shocks
Anyone running stock pistons, are you using 600 cst oil or have you changed?