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Old 08-28-2005, 04:35 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onthegas
Dont blame the lack of racers on the cost of the motors. If you can set up your car and drive, you will be able to compete with an inexpensive motor.
If someone with the same caliber equipment as the top ten thinks he's just as good a driver as the top ten, and think he's just as good setting up his car as the top ten, WILL think he NEEDS the same motor, or equivalent, to stay with the top ten(would'nt it be great if the top ten used low cost motors ). This scenario would hold true IF the said person IS as good as the top ten. Unfortunately, the majority of the racers out there with this mindset are not good enough to be in the top ten for one reason or another, and I think the last straw is the moment they spend the mega $$$ on these motors and not get the results they thought they would have.
You can try your darndest to convince someone that he can use a low buck quality motor and still be competitive but chances are he'll have a mega$$$ engine in his car the next time you see him at the track. That's the sad truth. Try telling Mercedes to stop updating their engines every other race because the Mclaren chassis and it's drivers are good enough to not need the engine updates. Of course it's not going to happen, especially if their competition is continuously updating theirs.

Even if you get the results you wanted with that new mega$$$ motor, there's always somebody who has more money, or is willing to spend more money than you, for the next super duper fast mega$$$$ motor that comes along. It's a never ending cycle as long as theres the need for the latest and greatest.


Another thing that I think that caused the downslope is that 1/8 on-road is too fast for it's own good believe it or not. Alot of 1/8 racers can't even control their cars with that much power. That in turn frustrates them and unfortunately the other racers/victims as well. That's why I think the 5-port no-mod motor would be a great idea. Even Motorman's idea of using big-block .15s would be great especially for a novice class.
Lower power for lower cost and less wear and tear across the board and closer racing......that sounds attractive to me .
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Last edited by FREAKAH; 08-28-2005 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 08-28-2005, 10:50 AM   #302
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I beleive 1/8 is gaining, rather than loosing popularity. Obviously it is in decline somewhere, or this thread would not exist. Next year, things are deffinately looking up in the Chicagoland area. Leasure hours has a new R/C complex going in, that will feature a permanent on-road track & off-road track, seperated by a large driver stand. Lay-outs will be set-up to accomodate both scales. Our club will likely have a track next year too.
The less expensive & powerfull engine class has merrit. We will offer something of the sort. My biggest concern is, ease of tech. They need to be easilly identified and be available in the $200 range.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:33 AM   #303
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One reason I emphasized a SPEC engine with port limits and non-modified cranks is they are easy to control & inspect. I proposed a street price limitation as the last criteria.

The problem with limiting a SPEC engine to a street price is so often the same engine will retail at different price points from various hobbyshops...We may run into a problem where a driver can claim he only purchased $299 for a modified engine off E-Bay....technically that motor would be a permitted spec engine...

We all know how easy it would be for on of those knock-off manufacturers to produce a 9-port engine for under $300USD.

Having a 5-port limitiation makes the guidlines straight forward and eliminates having to decide if the engine is permitted or not.

Looking forward to the Toys4Tots race and racing spec.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:38 AM   #304
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[QUOTE=onthegas]The problem with low turnouts is not due to the cost of the motor. Anyone that wants to get involved in 1/8th can do so with reasonable cost...... comparitively.

Dont blame the lack of racers on the cost of the motors. If you can set up your car and drive, you will be able to compete with an inexpensive motor.

The motors for the 1/10 sedans are near $300, and I dont hear them complaining about cost. Their tires are less expensive, which I still feel is a problem here. Racers that are curious about 1/8 on-road always ask how long the tires last. When they hear you need 2 sets per weekend, its over. What entry level racer can fork out 70 bucks every time they race? At the excellent discounted price of $35 bucks shipped per nitrodude's comment (excluding chunked tires), that is no bargain. Electric sedans can use a set of tires for 5-7 races.


My Response:
The problem with anyone getting involved with 1/8th is the total cost to race in general not just the cost of the engine....Therefore, why not look at areas where we can reduce the total cost.....I.E., the engine....

Anyone can be competitive with smart driving...but to be truly competitive in 1/8th betond the club level, a modified engine is really needed...we've all had our share of frustration drag racing a less experienced driver down a straightaway...

Maybe Sedan guys are complaining....$400 bucks for a .12 modified engine is excessive....

My theroy on why the 1/8th scale drivers are doing something about all this.....most of us have been in the hobby for a long time..."the old timers of RC"...and we are mature enough to realize that something has to be done....

And 1/8th tires are coming down in price.....Bruckner is selling 1/8th JACO front & rears for less than $30.00
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Last edited by Carl Giordano; 08-29-2005 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:38 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
One reason I emphasized a SPEC engine with port limits and non-modified cranks is they are easy to control & inspect. I proposed a street price limitation as the last criteria.

The problem with limiting a SPEC engine to a street price is so often the same engine will retail at different price points from various hobbyshops...We may run into a problem where a driver can claim he only purchased $299 for a modified engine off E-Bay....technically that motor would be a permitted spec engine...

We all know how easy it would be for on of those knock-off manufacturers to produce a 9-port engine for under $300USD.

Having a 5-port limitiation makes the guidlines straight forward and eliminates having to decide if the engine is permitted or not.

Looking forward to the Toys4Tots race and racing spec.
Not street price, but MSRP as in list price.

This is how it's done with stock electric motors and it works fine.

If this is the rule, you probably won't find people selling their engines much below retail. But this also encourages manufacturers to make the best motor with least amount of cost.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:58 AM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreylin
Not street price, but MSRP as in list price.

This is how it's done with stock electric motors and it works fine.

If this is the rule, you probably won't find people selling their engines much below retail. But this also encourages manufacturers to make the best motor with least amount of cost.

We had mentioned street price a few pages back...problem with MSRP is most manufacturers inflate the retail prices so to discount the product to the LHS...the LHS then has the flexiblity to charge whatever they like, which is usually well below the MSRP....

The examples of prices I quoted from the internet were based on street prices not MSRP....An engine I listed eariler with a street price of $299...has a retail price of $500....I doubt we will find any 1/8th engine with MSRP's of less than $300.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:02 AM   #307
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Another point with tires.....When you think about it....ounce for ounce...size for size....1/8th scale tires are fairly reasonable in price....

Compared to 1/12th scale tires.....which street price all in for $22.00 for a set...
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:51 AM   #308
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1/8 scale can be done on a budget, as long as you're not looking to win any championships. I was able to get a used MRX-3 for $300. You can get them much cheaper now. Because I knew the guy I got the car from he threw in about $300 (retail) in spare parts, I mean NIP parts, plus some loose stuff. For the most part all the plastic stuff. I got a Mega SX-21 with pipe for $350. I spent about $200 on stuff to get the car going (rather than mess with the old clutch, I just brought an entire new one). Radio gear came from an older car, not the latest and greatest servos, but they work. I already had a starter box from my Serpent touring car. First time out with the car at BARCARC in Edison, driving conservatively (I didn't want to fix anything) I quailified 12th in the pro class, about 2 laps off of the TQ (incidently, TQ was Carl with an MRX-4) We didn't get the mains in due to rain. Not bad for a used car and a budget engine.

1/8 scale is the top rung of the RC ladder. You have to expect to pay more considering the speed and the competitiveness.
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Old 08-29-2005, 09:53 AM   #309
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Carl, with the spec engine idea, what if everyone had to run a specific engine, like the Mega 21? No questions about wether an engine is legal or not, and much easier to tech. Might be worth trying on the local level, ie BARCARC/NERCAR.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:48 AM   #310
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If we follow the buggy engine idea, there are plenty of engines available in the $200 dollar range that are very competetive in a buggy. Collari 3 port sells for $185, RB 5 port @$189 and of course there are more. Those two happen to be in my counter right now. I have never tried to run one of those in a circuit car but they both make pretty good power in a buggy.
The engine I have been running in my 1/8 car is a Cipolla 11 port circuit engine that I sell for $214.95. It runs very well & blows away any buggy engine, but that may not be what we are after here.
I have offered a spec buggy class in the past, with very good results. Many of the 1/8 buggy drivers in this area, got started in my 'Super Stock' buggy class. There were choices (but limited ones) for buggies, engines, & tires.
It worked out extremely well. If I remember correctly the engine list was as follows; Force 4 port, force 6 port, TTR .21 pro, OS RG .21. All these engines were available for around $135. I did not allow the RB 3 port or 5 port engines because it was too easy to put S7 internals in them.
Seems to make sense to me to make a list of allowed engines that are generally available for the target price. Racers would have choices and be free to get them from whatever source they like.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:59 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
Carl, with the spec engine idea, what if everyone had to run a specific engine, like the Mega 21? No questions about wether an engine is legal or not, and much easier to tech. Might be worth trying on the local level, ie BARCARC/NERCAR.
Chavo, from BARCAR has mentioned he is willing to have a SPEC class, for non-modified engines...I ordered a JP stock 21 engine (off-road) for $279...

Duneland: thanks for the feedback...never thought about switching sleeves...I guess some people will do anything to win...I guess the only way to monitor this is to have random inspections....4-screws off the engine head...

Fortunately for us, teching engines is easier than electric motors....cheaters beware..
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:28 PM   #312
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I buy my 8th onroad foams $13 per set
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Old 08-29-2005, 01:47 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarKonnenD
I buy my 8th onroad foams $13 per set
Where do you get 1/8th foam...I have a ton of old rims which I can use to mount new rubber
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Old 08-29-2005, 04:32 PM   #314
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Well it's actually glued to the rims. I use Spyder foams and GRPs. They work well at home and at the track. Plus being a regular customer I get discounts.
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Old 08-29-2005, 07:31 PM   #315
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Where do you get them at that price?
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