1/8th On Road Losing Popularity?
08-25-2005, 01:57 PM
#212
Originally Posted by wagnerov
Carl,
Next thing you know, we'll have a 3-port class for 1/8 buggy, Pullstart-class for Monster Trucks, Side-exhaust class for 1/10 trucks, etc. In 2008, ROAR will have 206 national champions crowned.
I've said my last piece. Thanks and good luck with the new class. If it takes off, I'll stick my foot in my mouth.
Next thing you know, we'll have a 3-port class for 1/8 buggy, Pullstart-class for Monster Trucks, Side-exhaust class for 1/10 trucks, etc. In 2008, ROAR will have 206 national champions crowned.
I've said my last piece. Thanks and good luck with the new class. If it takes off, I'll stick my foot in my mouth.
Monster trucks have restrictions: small block....makes sense
Who knows who will be around in 2008
08-25-2005, 02:05 PM
#214
Originally Posted by ianhobbies
how about tire costs? y not use the f1 format... 1 set for whole qualifying and 1 set for a long main race... .21 engines also gulps lots of fuel.. how about fewer qualifying sessions?
Now if the manaufacturers would continue to lower their prices....which by the way is starting to happen due to a greater number of tire suppliers...We all benefit.
Few qualifiers does not help our cause....(I hope your not including an F1 format for qualifing....as F1 qualifiers suck) Get rid of MAX
08-25-2005, 03:05 PM
#215
Damn Carl, what are you putting Mugen 30 in your coffee?
I think I agree with Wagnernov. I don't think a spec class is the answer. And right now it looks like you're talking about a spec motor class, which leaves everything else wide open. Remember the early days of LIMRA? You can race whatever you want, as long as it's 1/12 scale. We had 3 classes, stock, mod, and expert. And although you had to run a stock motor, the classes were divided by skill level, and the racers knew where they belonged and stuck to it. Racers today aren't doing that. Look at electric touring car. How many racers with more that 10 years experience are running stock?
More rules and more classes isn't the answer.
I think I agree with Wagnernov. I don't think a spec class is the answer. And right now it looks like you're talking about a spec motor class, which leaves everything else wide open. Remember the early days of LIMRA? You can race whatever you want, as long as it's 1/12 scale. We had 3 classes, stock, mod, and expert. And although you had to run a stock motor, the classes were divided by skill level, and the racers knew where they belonged and stuck to it. Racers today aren't doing that. Look at electric touring car. How many racers with more that 10 years experience are running stock?
More rules and more classes isn't the answer.
08-25-2005, 03:30 PM
#216
Originally Posted by jiml
Damn Carl, what are you putting Mugen 30 in your coffee?
I think I agree with Wagnernov. I don't think a spec class is the answer. And right now it looks like you're talking about a spec motor class, which leaves everything else wide open. Remember the early days of LIMRA? You can race whatever you want, as long as it's 1/12 scale. We had 3 classes, stock, mod, and expert. And although you had to run a stock motor, the classes were divided by skill level, and the racers knew where they belonged and stuck to it. Racers today aren't doing that. Look at electric touring car. How many racers with more that 10 years experience are running stock?
More rules and more classes isn't the answer.
I think I agree with Wagnernov. I don't think a spec class is the answer. And right now it looks like you're talking about a spec motor class, which leaves everything else wide open. Remember the early days of LIMRA? You can race whatever you want, as long as it's 1/12 scale. We had 3 classes, stock, mod, and expert. And although you had to run a stock motor, the classes were divided by skill level, and the racers knew where they belonged and stuck to it. Racers today aren't doing that. Look at electric touring car. How many racers with more that 10 years experience are running stock?
More rules and more classes isn't the answer.
You just supported my arguement. Electric guys with 10+ years experience are racing stock....why, cause you can purchase a $36 stock motor and so long as no one cheats, everyone is running relatively equal motors.
They stopped running mod, cause they were sick of higher prices for the actual motors and the latest and greatest batteries to make run time. Especially in on-road. Mod motors are hard on the chassis and require a lot more maintenance.
The same applies to fuel on-road. Modified engines are 2x the price of a "SPEC" engine. I just bought one for less than $300...Modified engines are harde to tune and require more care to keep them running right.
Maybe its me, (and if it is I'll drop pushing for a SPEC engine)
It just seems that a SPEC engine is the simpliest and quickest way to try to a least control the rising costs in 1/8th racing....
At LIMRA...yes everyone knew there skill level and it was enforced. But we had enough guys on any given weekend to have a seperate expert and modified class...That was the early 90's and things are different today.
IMO today, alot of guys steer away from 1/8th cause they feel they need to spend over $500 for an engine. If a spec engine was available for less than $300 perhaps guys would stay / jump-in.
When I started 1/8th 3 years ago...Vegas was my first race, with an RB C5 engine. A great engine....know what, after I was passed on the straight by a guy I passed earlier in the infield and used the same C5 at the Edision Club, I felt I needed more top speed. I invested in a JP, knowing I would go to the nationals that year and needed the engine to be competitive.
If there was a SPEC class I would have been happy running a SPEC engine, my trusty C5...I think a lot of guys would feel the same...
08-25-2005, 05:11 PM
#218
Guys didn't stop running mod because of the cost of the motors...they got tired of replacing half the front of the car every time they crashed. Back in the 90's 15 turn was the acccepted limit. Now unless you got an 8 turn you ain't got s***! Not to mention today's stock motors are as fast as the 15 turn motors from then.
Same thing may be happening in 1/8. Continually faster engines means more tire wear and more breakage. People are turning away because they don't want to put up with that anymore.
Hmmm, just though of something. Every form of full scale motorsports has some restriction on engines in order to control costs. There's also a safety factor in there. Maybe it's time for RC to consider the same thing. In other words, not just a separate spec class, but change the engine rules to make them more restrictive and slow the cars down. May lower the long term costs of racing. This would have to be a worldwide thing to work.
Same thing may be happening in 1/8. Continually faster engines means more tire wear and more breakage. People are turning away because they don't want to put up with that anymore.
Hmmm, just though of something. Every form of full scale motorsports has some restriction on engines in order to control costs. There's also a safety factor in there. Maybe it's time for RC to consider the same thing. In other words, not just a separate spec class, but change the engine rules to make them more restrictive and slow the cars down. May lower the long term costs of racing. This would have to be a worldwide thing to work.
08-25-2005, 06:40 PM
#219
I'm all for spec motors, if they did that i would think about getting a 1/8 scale, only one problem, how do you keep some body from moding it? one way is have claim say $25.00 or higher, you think that some body is cheating you put up the money, if the motor has been worked on, the guys looses is motor right there on the spot, if not the guy gets the $25.00.
So if some one goes out and mods a $300.00 motor and gets caught red handed, it's going to cost him in the wallet. if somebody does not want to play by these rules then they do not race in the spec class.
So if some one goes out and mods a $300.00 motor and gets caught red handed, it's going to cost him in the wallet. if somebody does not want to play by these rules then they do not race in the spec class.
08-25-2005, 06:45 PM
#220
Hmmmm
I think I disagree with some of the direction this is going but I could be wrong.
But look at it this way. Let's say we restrict 1:8 to slow it down and let's say the speeds of Sedans are now the same as 1:8.
That would be the class killer in my opinion.
1:8 is all about speed. This is the true on-road open class for fuel racers.
But look at it this way. Let's say we restrict 1:8 to slow it down and let's say the speeds of Sedans are now the same as 1:8.
That would be the class killer in my opinion.
1:8 is all about speed. This is the true on-road open class for fuel racers.
08-25-2005, 06:50 PM
#221
Originally Posted by ROARprez
I think I disagree with some of the direction this is going but I could be wrong.
But look at it this way. Let's say we restrict 1:8 to slow it down and let's say the speeds of Sedans are now the same as 1:8.
That would be the class killer in my opinion.
1:8 is all about speed. This is the true on-road open class for fuel racers.
But look at it this way. Let's say we restrict 1:8 to slow it down and let's say the speeds of Sedans are now the same as 1:8.
That would be the class killer in my opinion.
1:8 is all about speed. This is the true on-road open class for fuel racers.
08-25-2005, 06:51 PM
#222
You people make me want one.
So which cars are you guys having/choosing and why?
So which cars are you guys having/choosing and why?
08-25-2005, 07:46 PM
#223
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
HEY RICK, nice to see your checking out this forum. You see the suggestions, lets get ROAR involved in putting together some guidelines for a "SPEC" class and lets Get-R-Dun!!!
.
.
08-25-2005, 08:33 PM
#224
I agree more rules, restrictions, regulations. We race to have fun, increase our number of laps :ie improving our racing skills. Spending the extra $200-300 on a engine only improves performace for a select few. I am not an A main racer and if there are A,B,C I will be in the C's. The motor we run is not important for 95% of us. WHen I get to my main I race againts my class of racers. It seems like the current system would suit anyone who thinks that a spec class would help. I can not see how a spec class would help increae the 1/8 class. We don't want to ROAR the 1/8 class. Restrictions Only Adds Regression
Originally Posted by wagnerov
Carl,
Forgive me for asking, just being the devil's advocate:
How is this proposed spec class supposed to grow 1/8th scale? All I am seeing proposed would divide what few drivers the class has already. Which, as I pointed out, should be done with driver ability without equipment differences, and only on a local level. You, yourself, just said "no one who has ton of Mugen or Serpent parts will invest in" the new class if there is a spec car (I don't think there should be a spec car or class, to set the record straight), etc....that quote implies the entries would come from people who have a 1/8th car already. And that means they probably have an engine that wouldn't be legal for this spec class, too....another $275 would need to be spent, using your engine as an example. I suppose that is good for driver retention in some ways.
Should sponsored drivers like yourself be running this class after it gets off the ground? How would the new people that this class is supposedly targeting like that? Once again, we should go back to having a separate, local-only, sportsman-driver class with the same rules as expert.
From Jamie: "We all know that skill overcomes $$$ most of the time." So why does there need to be another class? Does everyone need to be a winner in order to stay in the hobby? Granted, it's nice to be competitive. But most club races that I have been to only have a handful of national-level drivers, if any at all. The superior equipment you might have or the money you've spent does not guarantee an A-Main spot.
Hence, dumbing-down and dividing 1/8 with engine restrictions is bad. These kinds of things worked great for 235's (insert sarcasm here), although there were multiple factors that 1/8 doesn't have to face today.
Next thing you know, we'll have a 3-port class for 1/8 buggy, Pullstart-class for Monster Trucks, Side-exhaust class for 1/10 trucks, etc. In 2008, ROAR will have 206 national champions crowned.
I've said my last piece. Thanks and good luck with the new class. If it takes off, I'll stick my foot in my mouth.
Forgive me for asking, just being the devil's advocate:
How is this proposed spec class supposed to grow 1/8th scale? All I am seeing proposed would divide what few drivers the class has already. Which, as I pointed out, should be done with driver ability without equipment differences, and only on a local level. You, yourself, just said "no one who has ton of Mugen or Serpent parts will invest in" the new class if there is a spec car (I don't think there should be a spec car or class, to set the record straight), etc....that quote implies the entries would come from people who have a 1/8th car already. And that means they probably have an engine that wouldn't be legal for this spec class, too....another $275 would need to be spent, using your engine as an example. I suppose that is good for driver retention in some ways.
Should sponsored drivers like yourself be running this class after it gets off the ground? How would the new people that this class is supposedly targeting like that? Once again, we should go back to having a separate, local-only, sportsman-driver class with the same rules as expert.
From Jamie: "We all know that skill overcomes $$$ most of the time." So why does there need to be another class? Does everyone need to be a winner in order to stay in the hobby? Granted, it's nice to be competitive. But most club races that I have been to only have a handful of national-level drivers, if any at all. The superior equipment you might have or the money you've spent does not guarantee an A-Main spot.
Hence, dumbing-down and dividing 1/8 with engine restrictions is bad. These kinds of things worked great for 235's (insert sarcasm here), although there were multiple factors that 1/8 doesn't have to face today.
Next thing you know, we'll have a 3-port class for 1/8 buggy, Pullstart-class for Monster Trucks, Side-exhaust class for 1/10 trucks, etc. In 2008, ROAR will have 206 national champions crowned.
I've said my last piece. Thanks and good luck with the new class. If it takes off, I'll stick my foot in my mouth.
08-25-2005, 09:08 PM
#225
MMMMMMMMMM..... After reading some more of this post, I'm not so sure what will bring this class back, most likely time will. I think a some kind of motor claim would work in sedan class, it is after all set up to be a non mod 3 port motor class, any ways this is a 1/8 thread not sedan. our local on road club a few years ago was 80% 1/8 and rest nitro sedan with a few electric once in a blue moon. what is these days? well 75% electric and the rest nitro sedan. no 1/8 scales at all this year. why? well if you ask the 1/8 guys cost and the few numbers of racers, who wants to race with two other guys, but you travel up I-5 to Seatle area, 1/8 is still going strong. The difference? 200 miles and a bigger urban population base.