New Efra rules
10-08-2012, 08:35 AM
#316
Yes, I have got it all the time. But one thing you do think of (?) is that an over weighted car is actually penalized, not by a technical inspection but by the performance. And if the overweight is really affecting the performance or in a case of a less experienced driver where he thinks the overweight is an issue they need a high invest to create a lighter car.
Yes, I think the weight limit can be changed but now is not the time when the complete market has a high number of heavy cars. Last year it was not the time regarding the protests of many people and manufacturers as a result of moving it a year ahead and one year later the market did not change a lot so that is why there is a proposal for 1650 gram and not the still crazy 1550.
Yes, I think the weight limit can be changed but now is not the time when the complete market has a high number of heavy cars. Last year it was not the time regarding the protests of many people and manufacturers as a result of moving it a year ahead and one year later the market did not change a lot so that is why there is a proposal for 1650 gram and not the still crazy 1550.
1550 is too low. The hobby (not sport) needs diversity. This is a business and every manufacture in the business must have a legimate shot of growth. Lowering the minimum weight so far,so fast is not healthy for the business as a whole. I would hate to see a national event in any country with 40 entries and all of the A-main drivers are running the same car.
Pass you soon...
10-08-2012, 09:23 AM
#317
Which part of the weight rule don't you understand???
You can be overweight and you do not get penalised... Got it yet!?
Some drivers race on a budget, they don't waste foam so they don't true tyres, they drive carefully and enjoy it. Others use an old cracked shells, some use older engines and they still enjoy the hobby and hang out with some of the best drivers in their countries and have a really good time.
At the top levels of RC we should make the ULTIMATE PERFORMANCE and create the ULTIMATE SPECTACLE to attract people who see the best drivers in our sport achieve a level of performance that makes the WOW FACTOR and understand why we spend our money this way.
With your attitude, we should run at 2.5 Kg, have one engine, 1 glow plug, 1 litre of fuel and 1 set of tyres, waste our money traveling to your home track, eat shit so we can watch you win!
You can be overweight and you do not get penalised... Got it yet!?
Some drivers race on a budget, they don't waste foam so they don't true tyres, they drive carefully and enjoy it. Others use an old cracked shells, some use older engines and they still enjoy the hobby and hang out with some of the best drivers in their countries and have a really good time.
At the top levels of RC we should make the ULTIMATE PERFORMANCE and create the ULTIMATE SPECTACLE to attract people who see the best drivers in our sport achieve a level of performance that makes the WOW FACTOR and understand why we spend our money this way.
With your attitude, we should run at 2.5 Kg, have one engine, 1 glow plug, 1 litre of fuel and 1 set of tyres, waste our money traveling to your home track, eat shit so we can watch you win!
What do you think this rule would do for Capricorn? You think everybody would go out and invest €600 for a freakin' sedan to get down to the weight limit?
That's wishful thinking.
I'd rather have a few put weight into their car, than the majority spending sh!tloads of money for leight weight part and end up with fragile cars.
You people should really start to think more about the base of this sport / hobby, the ones who pay the bills, and not so much about the elite drivers who make up a very small crowd.
10-08-2012, 10:17 AM
#318
The only car you say? My NT1 with not much light weight parts is already beneith 1600 gramms if the tires are smaller. I think That the WC edition with all the light weight options is much lower in weight. Maybe someone can measure the car without the additional weight options, like the brass engine mount and brass weights on the chassis. Included some off the metal weights i made to get the weight limit. But no more room to bolt it on though. On a 8 scale there is more room i suppose. I have a 2009 NT1 by the way wich doesn1t have the brass options on the chassis.
10-08-2012, 10:24 AM
#319
Elite ???? what elite do you mean, i pay all the bills but i bought a xray wich already has brass options everywhere to get the car on the weight limit, wich brand are you racing?? No one is interested in the weight of their car, not even the sponsored drivers, what are we talking about. And this is the rule wich kills the sport??? Wake up, the sport is already near dead. better to look into why people are not attending than arguing about a non issue. No racer is talked to about the weight rule wich is proposed now. And they sure can`t vote on it. Read the EFRA proposal about it and who gets invited to attend the meeting.
10-08-2012, 11:42 AM
#320
Yes, there are always some freaks the whole winter busy to prove how low they can go.
My stock MRX4-X with a medium weight body, NiMh battery, normal engine (no drilled holes), Savox servo's, normal plasic rims reamed (saves total 15 gram), my clutch (saves now 7 gram) and my brakedisc (saves 8 gram) stil weights 2540)
- A LiPo saves 40 gram but need to add a regulator (not sure about LiFe)
- Titanium gearbox and front shaft will save me about 15 gram
- aluminium wheelshafts will save me about 30 gram
- lightweigt rimms will save met 20 gram
- A very light weight body saves up to 40 gram (I think)
Yes, I can get to the 2400 gram but to which costs?
- The wheelshafts needs to be replaced more often
- The lightweight rims can not stand a bump
- the gearbox shaft will bend more easier with a car running in from the side
- the body needs to be replaced with every race
It will take not only the investment, but also the running costs and a higher chance of a DNF
You know rules are there to make some sense and healthy limits in racing? Well with a 1550 and even the 2400 gramm you don't.
My stock MRX4-X with a medium weight body, NiMh battery, normal engine (no drilled holes), Savox servo's, normal plasic rims reamed (saves total 15 gram), my clutch (saves now 7 gram) and my brakedisc (saves 8 gram) stil weights 2540)
- A LiPo saves 40 gram but need to add a regulator (not sure about LiFe)
- Titanium gearbox and front shaft will save me about 15 gram
- aluminium wheelshafts will save me about 30 gram
- lightweigt rimms will save met 20 gram
- A very light weight body saves up to 40 gram (I think)
Yes, I can get to the 2400 gram but to which costs?
- The wheelshafts needs to be replaced more often
- The lightweight rims can not stand a bump
- the gearbox shaft will bend more easier with a car running in from the side
- the body needs to be replaced with every race
It will take not only the investment, but also the running costs and a higher chance of a DNF
You know rules are there to make some sense and healthy limits in racing? Well with a 1550 and even the 2400 gramm you don't.
10-08-2012, 12:04 PM
#321
OK Roelof, now i know why you are against it.
10-08-2012, 12:04 PM
#322
My NT1 weight 1780 grams race ready. My MTX4 weight 1750 grams race ready. I agree with Roelof's opinion. I always want to participate in every races, however, if the race minimum weight is too low, eg. 1550 grams, then I feel my cars are not competitive for the race. ............ I rather stay at home or go to shopping malls.
I stick with what i have, and I race for fun...... of course , in fair way .
I stick with what i have, and I race for fun...... of course , in fair way .
10-08-2012, 12:13 PM
#323
Guys,breath.
I know many of fellow drivers that switched to 1/10 off road and electric TC,some drop completely off.With that in mind,is this a sport of the masses?Do clubs thrive?There's a problem with definition of rules or the performance these cars should attain?I have many questions,no answers and just a will to compete on what is for me the most thrilling class to run.So can you guys decide what is what so I can bring this bad boy to a race?
I know many of fellow drivers that switched to 1/10 off road and electric TC,some drop completely off.With that in mind,is this a sport of the masses?Do clubs thrive?There's a problem with definition of rules or the performance these cars should attain?I have many questions,no answers and just a will to compete on what is for me the most thrilling class to run.So can you guys decide what is what so I can bring this bad boy to a race?
10-08-2012, 02:59 PM
#324
For the last time..
If you didn't run the only car on the market that is light enough and for which, IMHO this rule was created, you'd see it in a different way.
What do you think this rule would do for Capricorn? You think everybody would go out and invest €600 for a freakin' sedan to get down to the weight limit?
That's wishful thinking.
I'd rather have a few put weight into their car, than the majority spending sh!tloads of money for leight weight part and end up with fragile cars.
You people should really start to think more about the base of this sport / hobby, the ones who pay the bills, and not so much about the elite drivers who make up a very small crowd.
What do you think this rule would do for Capricorn? You think everybody would go out and invest €600 for a freakin' sedan to get down to the weight limit?
That's wishful thinking.
I'd rather have a few put weight into their car, than the majority spending sh!tloads of money for leight weight part and end up with fragile cars.
You people should really start to think more about the base of this sport / hobby, the ones who pay the bills, and not so much about the elite drivers who make up a very small crowd.
Ok, this is the last I will say of this...
I ran Team Magic G4 for years with heavy diffs, heavy rolling mass and I didnt care, we were learning and we enjoyed watching the best drivers drive with such precision and skill, it was spectacular. These drivers are still winning their classes. Many however just keep switching models in the hope they will find the winning formula, unfortunately it's not the car, it's the driver and I have a LOT of video footage to prove it.
We currently run AARCMCC rules that is 1725, and I'm happy with it as it is, the Capricorn is competitive with or without the weight. Consider the extra loads on our transmissions systems, clutches and belts, engines and lightening the cars WILL reduce wear and tear and overall cost. But I have a lovely aluminium engine mount that I have to replace with brass. A carbon radio plate I must use brass, the left side of my car is filled with weights and unless the rules reduce the weights, other manufacturers will do nothing about it because they don't have to.
What I am against is handicapping the evolution of RC models. I take offense that you think just because I run a Capricorn I am for lightening the cars, you don't know why I switched to capricorn, and Roelof thinking I have no idea about power to weight, then it says a lot about the respect of others.
All I ever wanted to do is go faster with an RC model. With this attitude of weighing down cars, everyone will move to Electric for performance and we nitro on-roaod runners will become a bunch of FAT, OLD, SLOW whiners.
So this is why I say, lets move forward to better performance, less mass, less wear, better materials, better Quality control and manufacturiing and better DESIGN. For those who think a Capricorn is fragile, JUST GO BUY ONE AND STOP talking rubbish about things you haven't tried!
10-09-2012, 02:51 AM
#325
Ok, this is the last I will say of this...
Don`t get discouriged Blis, we need your support
All I ever wanted to do is go faster with an RC model. With this attitude of weighing down cars, everyone will move to Electric for performance and we nitro on-roaod runners will become a bunch of FAT, OLD, SLOW whiners.
So this is why I say, lets move forward to better performance, less mass, less wear, better materials, better Quality control and manufacturiing and better DESIGN.
Don`t get discouriged Blis, we need your support
All I ever wanted to do is go faster with an RC model. With this attitude of weighing down cars, everyone will move to Electric for performance and we nitro on-roaod runners will become a bunch of FAT, OLD, SLOW whiners.
So this is why I say, lets move forward to better performance, less mass, less wear, better materials, better Quality control and manufacturiing and better DESIGN.
10-09-2012, 07:30 AM
#326
Tech Regular
Just my $ 0.02...
A lighter car will reduce drive train wear. Less spare parts needed. In 8th scale we need to change belts very often because of the brutal power. Maybe a lighter car helps there as well.
The MRX-4 discussion: I used to race the 4x two years ago and it can easily be brought down to 2450gr (with small tyres and an empty tank) by just using an non-dangerous LIFE pack without regulator. A good driver can use lightweight rims without any issues in addition, all others do not need to worry about the weight...
In 8th scale the most important factor is still the driver. You overshoot one apex and all your benefits from the lightweight car go straight out of the window.
Bottom line: The drivers who want to reduce weight can do it easily, the others can just smoke the competition with their heavy tanks. I appreciate the new weight limit for 8th scale.
Later...
A lighter car will reduce drive train wear. Less spare parts needed. In 8th scale we need to change belts very often because of the brutal power. Maybe a lighter car helps there as well.
The MRX-4 discussion: I used to race the 4x two years ago and it can easily be brought down to 2450gr (with small tyres and an empty tank) by just using an non-dangerous LIFE pack without regulator. A good driver can use lightweight rims without any issues in addition, all others do not need to worry about the weight...
In 8th scale the most important factor is still the driver. You overshoot one apex and all your benefits from the lightweight car go straight out of the window.
Bottom line: The drivers who want to reduce weight can do it easily, the others can just smoke the competition with their heavy tanks. I appreciate the new weight limit for 8th scale.
Later...
Last edited by fulcrum2; 10-10-2012 at 05:43 AM. Reason: typo
10-10-2012, 03:34 AM
#327
"The MRX-4 discussion: I used to race the 4x two years ago and it can easily be brought down to 1450gr (with small tyres and an empty tank) by just using an non-dangerous LIFE pack without regulator. A good driver can use lightweight rims without any issues in addition, all others do not need to worry about the weight..."
1450gr....for 1/8.....
You must be very talented to run without the engine installed.
1450gr....for 1/8.....
You must be very talented to run without the engine installed.
10-10-2012, 04:52 AM
#328
"The MRX-4 discussion: I used to race the 4x two years ago and it can easily be brought down to 1450gr (with small tyres and an empty tank) by just using an non-dangerous LIFE pack without regulator. A good driver can use lightweight rims without any issues in addition, all others do not need to worry about the weight..."
1450gr....for 1/8.....
You must be very talented to run without the engine installed.
1450gr....for 1/8.....
You must be very talented to run without the engine installed.
10-10-2012, 05:43 AM
#329
Tech Regular
Yes it is a typo. I will correct it. Thanks for making me aware of this.
If you want you can delete your posts in order to de-clutter the thread.
Later...
If you want you can delete your posts in order to de-clutter the thread.
Later...
10-10-2012, 06:24 AM
#330
Because my car is heavy? I just have made choices in reliable equipment.
All I hear from you is "I can do it so it is possible". I never had said it is impossible but for some arround me and you it is simply to much efford with high unwanted costs ending up with a more fragile car.
Believe me, it is my own choice and common sense if I want to cmply (fully/half) with the new rule about weight. And believe me, I can save 100 gram already next year just running LiPo and another engine.
Maybe... What is excactly the difference in wear? Has someone tested it?
Because the lighter weight the faster spool up and so acceleration will create other forces.
All I hear from you is "I can do it so it is possible". I never had said it is impossible but for some arround me and you it is simply to much efford with high unwanted costs ending up with a more fragile car.
Believe me, it is my own choice and common sense if I want to cmply (fully/half) with the new rule about weight. And believe me, I can save 100 gram already next year just running LiPo and another engine.
Because the lighter weight the faster spool up and so acceleration will create other forces.