R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-22-2009, 01:28 PM   #1
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default Performance question: Under chassis aero package....Is it worth it?

If someone made an under chassis aero package to fit a 1/10 scale sedan, would it help going into a corner by creating a "vacume" effect?
At the rear of the car a diffuser, and on each arm, a divice to creat vacume as the air passes under the arm. Lets say that it was to gain around 3 to 5% additional downforce at the tires, would it be worth it? The total weight would be less than 8 grams.

Would it bennefit the average club racer?
Who would it benneifit if anybody?
Would you buy it?
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS?

any input is welcome, negative or positive.
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 01:47 PM   #2
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Provo, UT
Posts: 297
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

If it worked, I'm sure you'd have interest.

If it worked and it's ROAR legal you'd have even more interest!
Arboleda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 02:09 PM   #3
Tech Regular
 
Jonathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 262
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Thumbs up

I for one would love to see you what you got. I always thought that aerodynamics should be next frontier to be exploited in RC racing. We have reached a point where chassis's are more advanced than the real counterpart, but bodies are still the same from 3 years ago, at least in sedans. I think all that is about to change. The latest crop of 1/8th scale bodies for example, are showing us that there is potential for even greater gains in performance... all from the art of aerodynamics. The idea of an carriage is something I personally have thought about quite a bit. I am glad that someone else have taken it to the next level. By all means, please show us what you've got so far. Thanks in advance.
Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 02:12 PM   #4
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arboleda View Post
If it worked, I'm sure you'd have interest.

If it worked and it's ROAR legal you'd have even more interest!
The new Roar rule book does not have a section for this, but the old books said that if the real race car had it, have a picture of it in use and it was ok. I don't know if this still stands or not.
With a basic wind tunnel (made from a large box of straws and some cardboard,) it gennerated 5gms of additional wieght to the front tires on each side and 11 grams of weight at about 45mph wind (based on stihl backpack blower ratings) on each side of the rear. More with a stronger air flow and less with less air flow. (tested both ways, with and without aero package. 3-5% increase in downforce. HAS NOT BEEN TESTED ON TRACK IN A RACE CONDITION.) So, does it work,? Hoping to do some track testing this weekend if the rain holds out in Tampa.
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 02:15 PM   #5
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
I for one would love to see you what you got. I always thought that aerodynamics should be next frontier to be exploited in RC racing. We have reached a point where chassis's are more advanced than the real counterpart, but bodies are still the same from 3 years ago, at least in sedans. I think all that is about to change. The latest crop of 1/8th scale bodies for example, are showing us that there is potential for even greater gains in performance... all from the art of aerodynamics. The idea of an carriage is something I personally have thought about quite a bit. I am glad that someone else have taken it to the next level. By all means, please show us what you've got so far. Thanks in advance.
I will post my pics as soon as I get back from picking up my son from school.
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 02:32 PM   #6
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 480
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfoolz View Post
If someone made an under chassis aero package to fit a 1/10 scale sedan, would it help going into a corner by creating a "vacume" effect?
At the rear of the car a diffuser, and on each arm, a divice to creat vacume as the air passes under the arm. Lets say that it was to gain around 3 to 5% additional downforce at the tires, would it be worth it? The total weight would be less than 8 grams.

Would it bennefit the average club racer?
Who would it benneifit if anybody?
Would you buy it?
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS?

any input is welcome, negative or positive.
Not sure how much it would work at the 1/10 nitro scale, but that already exist on the HPIRacing E10 Electric car. this only comes on the GT Ford addition but I'm sure you can purchase it as a spare part.





I've not seen anything like this on the nitro level, but people have been cutting out the back of their bodies for years for a similar effect, especially at the 1/8 scale level. If I'm not mistaken there are now ROAR rules on how much you can cut out.
Kyo83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 02:45 PM   #7
Tech Champion
 
Roelof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 6,273
Send a message via ICQ to Roelof
Default

I did try it on a MRX4, a big plate with only holes for the wheels and flywheel. With 50km/h it was already sticking to the ground and it was almost possible to take a 180 degrees corner at the end of the straight at full throttle.

You do need to change the whole setup. Stronger springs and minimize the travel of the suspension by the up and downstops.
__________________
The quality of an answer comes with the quality of the question.
Roelof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 03:09 PM   #8
Tech Master
 
DS Motorsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,440
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

A slight improvement in underbody aerodynamics would be a good thing i think.

It's really easy to get about 50% more downforce from a underfloor package, but this would require a completely new suspension system with far more advanced dampers and a pushrod-rocker combination. Otherwise you will have a car which drags across the surface on the straight or you have a such stiffly sprung car which just doesn't corner when you approach a slow corner.

One of the things i'm currently experimenting with is the front splitter and the rear wing endplates. Almost nobody uses the rear wing end plates but they make a tremendous effect on rear end stability.

And under efra ruling any underbody aerodynamics are disallowed i believe.

But it would be a cool project to complete, putting in faster laps with a 1/10 scale tourer, than a 1/8 scale.

Ow and i would like to see what you have came up with.
With the current 1/10 rear suspension there isn't much room for a proper diffuser. You will have to make it too steep to fit which will result in the air losing contact with the diffuser.
__________________
P1-RC.com
DS Motorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 03:14 PM   #9
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default pics of aero package

this is the first version I am working on. Removed the photos for now....
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.

Last edited by rcfoolz; 05-25-2009 at 06:41 AM.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 03:21 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

second set of pics Sorry, I removed the photos for now. I will be reposting them soon. Thank you.
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.

Last edited by rcfoolz; 05-25-2009 at 06:43 AM.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 03:45 PM   #11
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

I like the HPI setup, and I know this is just a crude setup, but still in testing/development. I had made a carbon fiber set, but the weight was too much and too bulky.

anyway, open to ideas and any comments.
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 04:08 PM   #12
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N Chesterfield, VA
Posts: 83
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

The ROAR rulebook used to state specifically "No under body aerodynamic devices." Not sure if it still does.
rdcobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 06:30 AM   #13
Tech Regular
 
Nitro-Racer*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 398
Default

wow this is a great idea!! keep it up rcfoolz. the future is here
__________________
Xray Nt1-Novarossi 3sct-KoPropo-GRP-Altis 2.3-RB Fuels
Xray 808 09-RB Killer 9-Hitec-KoPropo-RB Fuels
Nitro-Racer* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 10:23 AM   #14
Tech Master
 
garen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: GLENDALE
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Art Carbonell was testing some parts very similar to the ones in the photos some years ago. I don't know the results of the tests or why he/they stopped testing.
__________________
bpengines-usa.com fioroni-usa.com motonica-usa.com

Airtronics Avid RC Byron Fuels VOX Engines

VMR Tires - available at http://motonica.ipower.com/store
garen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 11:27 AM   #15
Tech Elite
 
rcfoolz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,327
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to rcfoolz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garen View Post
Art Carbonell was testing some parts very similar to the ones in the photos some years ago. I don't know the results of the tests or why he/they stopped testing.
Yes, I had talked to Art about this about a year ago and he had given me a link to some photo's of what was done then.(they are no longer available) I had a few calls about this and they had mentioned this and they "claimed" that the car was better, but that was from a viewers standpoint. I talked to Art and he had explained that it was more noticable in the 1/8 than the sedan, but they hadn't worked on the front underside of the chassis. One of the gains was more mid corner speed and stability. I'm working on a second design to test tomorow based on a conversation I just had with Art today. when this is all worked out, I will be sending it to someone to test and post their results. (I did this with the carbon fiber chassis I made 4 years ago)
__________________
Am I going back racing?...Hmmm.. Not anytime soon... But soon enough.
rcfoolz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever... Vyger Electric On-Road 13772 Yesterday 09:32 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:38 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net