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Old 10-18-2011, 01:24 AM   #1231
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bertrandsv87, if your not buying a MTX5 real soon, or looking to find or contribute any valid information about it, can you please move your rather weird views and theories elsewhere, cause your not helping anyone in here with it.

Talk of ball diffs and balancing any diff is really cheapening the tone of this thread, and will only serve to confuse any newer people who may not know better than to ignore you.

For any mods that read this, please realize he has already started one argument, offended several people, and now continues to talk a lot of rubbish, it was amusing for a little while, but now it's just grating.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:18 AM   #1232
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:45 AM   #1233
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bertrandsv87, if your not buying a MTX5 real soon, or looking to find or contribute any valid information about it, can you please move your rather weird views and theories elsewhere, cause your not helping anyone in here with it.

Talk of ball diffs and balancing any diff is really cheapening the tone of this thread, and will only serve to confuse any newer people who may not know better than to ignore you.

For any mods that read this, please realize he has already started one argument, offended several people, and now continues to talk a lot of rubbish, it was amusing for a little while, but now it's just grating.
Bishop, good point Lars made which came from RadicalRC was the smaller the diff the thicker the oil that's needed. Which makes a lot of sense, where a larger diff used 100,000 and smaller diff may need up to 300,000. Less total surface area hence less friction / viscosity..

Chillax brah, there's always one in a crowd. PS Watched the vids, tbh, I prefer watching the SSFs at EPR.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:09 AM   #1234
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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
bertrandsv87, if your not buying a MTX5 real soon, or looking to find or contribute any valid information about it, can you please move your rather weird views and theories elsewhere, cause your not helping anyone in here with it.

Talk of ball diffs and balancing any diff is really cheapening the tone of this thread, and will only serve to confuse any newer people who may not know better than to ignore you.

For any mods that read this, please realize he has already started one argument, offended several people, and now continues to talk a lot of rubbish, it was amusing for a little while, but now it's just grating.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:29 AM   #1235
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Diff balancing, as rotating mass is very important ! Symmetry around the diff axis changes with shimming and adding different weight oil. It gets really complicated when adding centrifugal forces to that mix, resulting most of the time in a blown diff, after all efforts have been exhausted . I say stick with a spool up front, and a solid ball diff in the rear ! Or if you must use a diff, try to learn from the Russians with their Awesomatix sealed, oil filled, and adjustable ball diff running 16 ceramic balls !
WTH man ?

Diff balancing
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:02 AM   #1236
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Bishop, good point Lars made which came from RadicalRC was the smaller the diff the thicker the oil that's needed. Which makes a lot of sense, where a larger diff used 100,000 and smaller diff may need up to 300,000. Less total surface area hence less friction / viscosity..
Now I think about it, the 5 with 200k probably feels simular to the 4 when I had a diff with ~150k in it, but saying that I thought the 4 felt too heavy in action like that, and so does the 5 with 200k.

Back in the 4 thread I remember Jason commenting/recommending lighter front diff oil as I think he ran 80k in the front at last years Qlds, may need to go find if I remembered that right.

Although if I'd just listen to Trev, it's likely I'm still just not getting off the throttle soon enough, but damn it I still want to get 'into' those corners faster. (And I know the Photon does it, so why can't the Mugen)
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:46 AM   #1237
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Now I think about it, the 5 with 200k probably feels simular to the 4 when I had a diff with ~150k in it, but saying that I thought the 4 felt too heavy in action like that, and so does the 5 with 200k.

Back in the 4 thread I remember Jason commenting/recommending lighter front diff oil as I think he ran 80k in the front at last years Qlds, may need to go find if I remembered that right.

Although if I'd just listen to Trev, it's likely I'm still just not getting off the throttle soon enough, but damn it I still want to get 'into' those corners faster. (And I know the Photon does it, so why can't the Mugen)
It's the track that's us hindering a lot, the only time Ive seen 200mm respond like an electric has been at Miami Worlds. Our bumps in conjuction with the track layout make for considerable compromises.

Your photon is probably well under weight, and is so soft it manages the bumps. Put that configuration on a nitro like I tried with the V10 and the car was awesome until we needed to go thru the sweep and long track where ther car pitched over and the inside wheel rose and the diff started to spin up. You could try for much softer setup and stand up the shocks, more ride height, stiiffer sway and more droop in effect to try and get a similar setup.

Trevor telling you not to drive hard into the corners, I said with too much steering rate you will naturally have to drive in harder and force slip to understeer to get a smooth line, heavy diffs will also wash speed as well. So it's hard to do both, perhaps try a REALLY SOFT setup and avoid the sweep to get some benchmarks. Jeff drove Guy's with the soft setup and it was really nice, but just wouldnt work for the whole track.
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:03 PM   #1238
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Bishop, I don't need to buy a mtx5 or help you in any way to have an opinion here, whether you like it or not ! I see a gear diff system that's not working, so I propose something else that's already out there, in the hopes that mugen will take up the challenge, and come up with a similar product ! I already know some will keep laughing at anybody's ideas , because that's all they will ever do , it will never stop me from sharing my thoughts.....
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:38 PM   #1239
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Bishop, I don't need to buy a mtx5 or help you in any way to have an opinion here, whether you like it or not ! I see a gear diff system that's not working, so I propose something else that's already out there, in the hopes that mugen will take up the challenge, and come up with a similar product ! I already know some will keep laughing at anybody's ideas , because that's all they will ever do , it will never stop me from sharing my thoughts.....
I'm curious as to the theory that an extra .5 shim to take up the slop on the diff gears causes an out of balanced diff so in your opinion will lead to a blown diff. What about those that run only two gears to get lighter diff action are eventually gonna destroy the diff because of the out of balance situation! Could you give us an explanation as to why the need balancing and how you balance the diff.


Thunder bunny what diff oil were you using in the diffs and why did you replace the composite gears with metal ones....
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:54 PM   #1240
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I'm curious as to the theory that an extra .5 shim to take up the slop on the diff gears causes an out of balanced diff so in your opinion will lead to a blown diff. What about those that run only two gears to get lighter diff action are eventually gonna destroy the diff because of the out of balance situation! Could you give us an explanation as to why the need balancing and how you balance the diff.

I wouldn't waste my time asking a person who believes the NTC3 is still competitive nowadays, ball diffs are awesome and has no clue on on-road racing...
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:58 PM   #1241
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I love reading this thread.............
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:06 PM   #1242
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Thunder bunny what diff oil were you using in the diffs and why did you replace the composite gears with metal ones....
I'm using 50K. I replaced the composite gears because the slot on the back side of the big gear stripped on my second practice run. My home track has a lot of 180* turns (host track of last year's IFMAR Worlds), which works the diffs pretty hard. The car handles amazingly well when the diff holds up. I need to get this problem fixed. I've gone through three diffs so far. One with composites, two with NT1 gears.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:11 PM   #1243
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Anything that rotates around an axis needs to have the same amount of centrifugal force pulling on each side of the axis, in order for the system not to destroy itself. When you shim the web gears, you are actually moving the weight of the gear around to get a tighter fit, but might be causing the gear diff to become internally unbalanced. In addition, the gear having moved causes a change in oil flow around the gear, which worsens the imbalance . It's very hard to get it right, specially when some parts come with small defects, and even if you do, it won't last long because the web gear center holes will naturally enlarge due to friction, and consequently pulling the teeths apart, before the diff blows...
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:43 PM   #1244
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Also, if you use cvd's and not ecs type drives, it will worsen the gear diff issues...Ball diffs can slip and absorb the cvd's vibrations, but the gear diffs don't slip and take the abuse.....
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:49 PM   #1245
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I love reading this thread.............
Who's selling the popcorn???

Pass you soon...
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