i300i

Which color is the new material?

bbntc3

white or cream colored

Just received the WERKS pipe for the NTC3. Looks very promising!!! If weather holds out here may test some with it this weekend.
Anybody else tried the pipe?? Sorta RD design but longer length and bigger diameter manifold. You can find them on EBAy or here, when there in stock, I think this is a pretty new product line.


http://werksracing.com/index.jsp

soc123_au

iTrader: (2)

Is the Werks pipe likely to work with the RB Rody, I cant get the full potential from the engine with the RD or AE pipes. Heaps of low end, but it suffers up top. Luckily I race mostly on short tracks, but on the larger tracks I fall short.

bbntc3

We mainly race short tracks too. All our engines are outlaw mods and ROAR legal modds. we usually run the lowest gears 20/24 ,50/54. the car works well with the RD pipe. We also raceon a large track 260' straights, and the RD pulls there well too better than any other pipe we have, I have and have tried them all.
The WERKS caught my eye a few weeks ago and I finally snagged one at less $$ than the RD pipe. The pipe looks like it should be on a 1/8th car. The outlet manifold pipe at the head is the same of 8th scale and seems to have about a .080 bigger inside diameter than the RD, and the pipe itself is about 2 inches longer than the RD. It should breath much better! That's all I can say for now, maybe test soon.

Are you sure its the RD pipe killing you on long tracks? Is there other TC3's there with same gearing and Rody power??? I have a Rody RB and after break in and about 1/2 gallon of fuel, we boxed it! We were never impressed with it and it likes to consume the fuel!! I also thought it was way over priced! I guess that's because of the signature on it.

InitialD

Which Rody version is this? V12 or X12? What about it that you did not like?

soc123_au

iTrader: (2)

Not to many NTC3s in Australia, none that I know of running RB.
It isnt the engine, we ran it in a MTX3 to see if the engine was a dud, but it ripped. It goes OK in the NTC3, but it doesnt seem to want to rev. I have tried the RD, AE Factory Team & AE Standard Pipes. The Factory duel chamber is the pick, but its still not 100%

InitialD

You just need to circumvent around the problem. Use taller gearings to make up the lack of top end. Rody Roem mentioned this 2 years ago on the RB forums during the Cincy World meet where Mark Pavidis won that it was a problem with the AE pipe design. Perhaps this is related to RB engine problem only.

bbntc3

I have a V12 Rody it runs ok but no real powerhouse. It's nothing compared to the Richeys, and Palmaris engines we use. It just did'nt have the bottom end and mid we were looking for on the short tracks. It also seemed alittle harder on fuel than our other mods . I have 5 port x12 turbo's that are bone stock and perform as good as it did. For the price I payed for it we just was'nt happy.
On the other hand all our other modds are built for what we need, ( rpm and power curve). Which with the Rody you can't choose what you want or need, you get what you get. Our engines have alot different induction timing than most modd engines, so that may be why we felt the Rody did'nt perform as well..
What alot of people don't understand is engine timing, what works on lets say a long track, usually won't work well on a tight high bite short track, no matter what gearing or pipe you use. Theres timing numbers for sure that will give sorta the best of both worlds, but I'd rather have seperate engines for each .

soc123_au

iTrader: (2)

Initial D, I have tried all the AE gear combos & the K Factory & Kawahara. Still not enough revs. Its hard to explain, but its like when it gets up in the revs it starts to labour & has no snap.
The same engine in an MTX3 works fine. Might have to PM Topgun777 & give one of these Palmaris things ago.

bbntc3

Socc: What final gear ratio was in the mugen with the Rody? was tire diameter and final gearing the same or close to your car? What temps was the engine running at? You'll find for long tracks you'll have to lean the car some. Hell, 280 to 300 degrees is where it will run it's best, and theres still a very fine line between lean/rich and overheating. The pipe design is most of the problems. To much back pressure. If your using older Ae pipes move the pressure outlet towards the end of the pipe closer to stinger, port the exhaust inlet pipe as big as you can get it, and if stinger outlet diameter is not in your rules, drill it out to 5.5 or 6mm. This will help with restriction a bunch.
If you have the extra money I'd get the WERKS pipe hell it's the only other pipe out there for the car. I picked mine up for $45 shipped. That's alot cheaper than another engine.

InitialD

I think I know... The RPM kind of flattens out pretty early.

But if you gear tall, you do not need to wait for the engine to zing at high RPM to give you the snap at the end of the straight. It's a matter of shifting the gearing to suite the engine powerband.

If you've already exhausted all the gear combos on the car, then perhaps somebody needs to design another pipe for the NTC3 or ditch the car for a car that you have more choices on pipes.

InitialD

I think that was what Rody mentioned. You really need to run high temps to make power unfortunately. How to do it? I think it's a black art ! No kidding.

But the pipe mods to reduce the high pressure from the pipe helps a lot in the engine tuning. That's what the team drivers are using.

bbntc3

Black art!!
Hell, I almost pulled my hair out messn with with all the thermal,vibration and pipe issues with the car. But after 3 years I have it pretty much figured out.
Yes the mods help tuning issues, get rid of the pressure and it will tune better.
Heres a link for a WERKS pipe from ebay it ends in 15 or so hrs, the reserve is $38

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...931467623&rd=1

InitialD

Price is good. The pipe looks like it's a cross between the normal Mugen inline pipe and the RDLogics NTC3 inline pipe...

http://shop.the-border.nl/customer/p...cat=425&page=3

soc123_au

iTrader: (2)

I will give the Werks pipe a go I think. The pressure fitting on the AE pipe got moved early on. The fuel blowing back out of the tank lid forced that move . No way I want to change cars, to much $$$ tied up in cars & parts, I have been a AE man since I got into this hobby with my original RC10. My temps are only around 220, I have tried to go leaner but it flames out, or when you nail the gas it hesitates & is very erratic & it also takes way to long to idle down. At 220 it is still quick but I know it has more, with the FT gearing I am not loosing much to MTX3s with JPs etc. I cant remember the final dive of the Mugen, I know we checked at the time & it was similar to the NTC3. I just want that high pitched scream when it gets up on the pipe, that is pretty much what is missing.