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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
(Post 3833570)
Hehehe. I like the iGT class idea, for sure. And unless I own one, I just don't want to be on the track at the same time. :)
doug Well said ApexSpeed......I agree. |
<<<Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules:
Car Rules 1. Must be Kyosho GT or Kyosho buggy converted to a GT car. 2. Engine may be changed to any .28 or smaller engine. >>>>> So lemme see if I have this straight. I can buy this $400 IGT car and put a $800 Mario Rossi Engine in it. Count me in!!!! :tire::tire::tire: |
Originally Posted by JVStrat
(Post 3837103)
<<<Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules:
Car Rules 1. Must be Kyosho GT or Kyosho buggy converted to a GT car. 2. Engine may be changed to any .28 or smaller engine. >>>>> So lemme see if I have this straight. I can buy this $400 IGT car and put a $800 Mario Rossi Engine in it. Count me in!!!! :tire::tire::tire: If you really want to go fast, put your 4-Tech engine in it too! We’ll change the rules just so you will be legal to run it with 95% nitro, OK Can you believe this is the same guy with the leaking diff problem? Dude, get a clue:lol::lol::lol::lol: |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3837519)
Yea, don’t forget to put grease in it to help with the break-in.
If you really want to go fast, put your 4-Tech engine in it too! We’ll change the rules just so you will be legal to run it with 95% nitro, OK Can you believe this is the same guy with the leaking diff problem? Dude, get a clue:lol::lol::lol::lol: |
Originally Posted by JVStrat
(Post 3837103)
<<<Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules:
So lemme see if I have this straight. I can buy this $400 IGT car and put a $800 Mario Rossi Engine in it. Count me in!!!! :tire::tire::tire: I think these cars are going to be more about low end torque then top end speed, for that matter a overworked engine is not going to be able to outperform a bone stock .28 in racing. Perhaps combined with Rubber tires that will also limit the amount of power you'll be able to lay down. |
Originally Posted by tomkelley
(Post 3837557)
I think these cars are going to be more about low end torque then top end speed, for that matter a overworked engine is not going to be able to outperform a bone stock .28 in racing. Perhaps combined with Rubber tires that will also limit the amount of power you'll be able to lay down.
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I just have a question about the rubber tires? How do these rubber tires hook-up on a track that has been sprayed with traction compound.
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You can get the IGT bodies on Kyosho's site painted and unpainted.
Are you guys going to allow foam tires? |
Originally Posted by headhunter
(Post 3838485)
You can get the IGT bodies on Kyosho's site painted and unpainted.
Are you guys going to allow foam tires? |
There has been a push for years to attract new racers into the racing niche of the hobby. As most of us can attest, nitro cars attract more spectators to the track than the electric cars. People tend to gravitate to the sounds of the nitro cars and love to hear them shift gears and fly down straight-aways. With that said, I, being a long-time nitro racer, love the idea of an inexpensive, spec-type, entry-level class if it means getting more folks into the racing niche. The cars are big, durable, and somewhat easy to drive. I also love the rules in regards to a box-stock spec class (levels the playing field making driving and setup the key) and a SS class (for the experienced racer that likes the class but not in the same league as the beginner driver). The one thing that kills me about conversations like this are the racers that come in very negative with the “been there, done that”, “we have enough classes, why dilute the racing pool more”, or “it will never work” attitudes. Some of these type of guys forget that when they started racing, many of the experienced guys back then cursed under their breathes when your newbie butt was practicing/running on the track, wondering if you were going to take them out due to your lack of driving skills. I see the IGT class as a way for the newbie to get into nitro and get his feet wet, hopefully learning and developing skills along the way, and then graduating to the other classes if that is what they want to do. Also, it keeps them out of the way of the more experienced racers while the newbie is developing his driving skills. However, I see too many elitists that are only concerned with themselves and their clique’s self-interests at the expense of the hobby and racing in particular. The way I see it, today’s spectators are tomorrow’s racers. If you have 50 spectators watch your club races each time you run and you can attract 5-10 of them during the year into buying a car and coming out to race, then you are accomplishing the desired goal. These newbies have friends that they might be able to convince one into buying gear and coming out to race as well. I, for one, am tired of the “status-quo” racer that is satisfied with running with his clique and damn everyone else. It is this type of attitude that is killing on-road racing in many areas of the country. Let’s roll with the IGT/DTM (not forgetting OFNA which also has an equivalent car) and see what happens. If the class dies off due to non-participation by the newbie, then so be it. But we won’t know if it will work if we don’t give it a chance. Quit being a class snob (directed more toward the 1/8th scale on-road guys who think their class is the most important one in the r/c world and the r/c world revolves around them). What newbie has $1500 to $2000 to burn getting into the high-end 1/8th scale car that can only be run on a specific, traction-prepped surface when they can buy one that is less fragile, more affordable, and can be run almost anywhere (bash with it in between organized racing).
Juan |
Well said.
Dave |
Originally Posted by dave
(Post 3844814)
Well said.
Dave |
Originally Posted by JVStrat
(Post 3833138)
This is funny. IGT to Touring to 1/8 = Craftsman Truck to Busch to Nextel?? More like: Spec Yellow Cab to Busch to Nextel.
I looked up one of our race results and saw that the best 1/10th nitro guy's average laps for that day were 15.8. The best IGT guy's average laps for that day were 17.1. I don't know if the closeness is just due to the non-flowing nature of the track but spec yellow cab to Busch is not an accurate analogy. To the guys who are suggesting low torque rules and that these are somewhat like big block street racers, that analogy hits home with me. I put a much higher end engine in my IGT than the stock engine and really didn't see much difference on a technical track. |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3835031)
[These Rally Car rules sent by the President of RC Pro.
RC Pro “Rally” Rules These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport. Kyosho Inferno GT Spec Class Rules: *If it doesn’t say you can do it, you CAN’T DO IT. Car Rules 1. Upgrade brakes. 2. Upgrade radio gear (servos, linkage, receiver and radio). 3. Add sway bars (front and rear) 4. Shock and diff oils can be changed. 5. Any shock position, caster position, ect., provided by the car (no drilling holes). 6. You may use a starter box, but pull-start must remain intact and operational. 7. Clutch gearing may change (14-15 first gear, 17-18-19 second gear, kyosho only). 8. Replacing threaded links with turnbuckles. 9. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Treaded kit tires are allowed. Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be rubber. NO foam tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer. Body Rules Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies) 1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line. 2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface. 3. Side window may be cut open for fueling. 4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”. 5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”. 6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor. 7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes. 8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis. These are the only changes allowed to the vehicle from the box. Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules: Car Rules 1. Must be Kyosho GT or Kyosho buggy converted to a GT car. 2. Engine may be changed to any .28 or smaller engine. 3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body. Max Stinger diameter - 8mm Max stinger length 15mm Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds. 4. Any chassis or suspension upgrade is legal providing the vehicle maintains the proper measurements as listed below.. 5. Wheelbase Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm 6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel). 7. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer. Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in. Maximum width - 1.9 in. Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be rubber. NO foam tires. 8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line from tank to carb. 9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed. Body Rules Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies) 1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line. 2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface. 3. Side window may be cut open for fueling. 4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”. 5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”. 6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor. 7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes. 8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis. 1/8 Rally Open Rules: Car Rules 1. May be any 1/8 buggy converted to run as a GT type car. 2. May use any engine .28 or smaller. 3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body. Max Stinger diameter - 8mm Max stinger length 15mm Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds. 4. Wheelbase Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm 6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel). 7. Any tire built for 1/8 rally type racing. FOAM tires OK. Tire may be slick or treaded. No sectioning, narrowing or cutting of the tire carcass allowed. Grooving or sipping is allowed. Any inner foam is allowed. Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in. Maximum width - 1.9 in. Tires must be fully covered by the body. 8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line from tank to carb. 9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed. Body Rules Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies) 1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line. 2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface. 3. Side window may be cut open for fueling. 4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”. 5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”. 6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor. 7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes. 8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis. These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport. The GT SS class is a step up from the spec class to allow for racers who want to go faster once they feel they are ready. The Rally Open class is for those racers who have offroad buggies and want to try onroad for a reasonable price. A typical offroad buggy will need to change tires, install a front bumper under the body to help support the body and install a full body on the car. Roughly $100 to change a buggy over. The SS & Rally Open class may be combined but scored separately at certain events depending on number of entries. Races may be ran on all paved tracks or a combination of paved and dirt/grass tracks. Qualifiers may be 5 minutes or more. Mains may be 5 minutes or more. |
I only have one suggestion.
Keep It Simple Stupid Nothing RCPro does is simple. If you want it to work, don't over complicate the class right off the bat. You immediately turn off new racers if the rule list is longer than your arm, and it should never be a class aimed at "pro" or open level racers. That's what sedan and 1/8th are for. Geesh. And we wonder why kids would rather sit down with Gran Turismo 5 and a Playstation over an R/C race car. |
I've been racing RC on and off a long time. Recently, I finally decided that it is the right time to go 1/8 onroad. I have everything, starter box, tire truer, radio equipement, digital telemetry, and transponder. All I need is a car and motor. I can get some good deals out there on a roller however, its the cost of the motors that has stopped me cold! $300 - $400 on a motor that may or may not last a season:eek: plus various pipes at a $80 - $100 a piece. I just couldn't deal with that kind of cost.:(:cry:
However, it took me less than $200 and very little time to convert my XTM buggy into an IGT look-alike with a competiive motor that costs me no more than $150.:D Someone made a comment about Busch series graduating into F1... well Kinda hard to make it to F1 without an F1 budget. Most guys out there are on a Busch Series budget.:nod: Besides, I need some money left over to pay for that "real" car that is hauling my stuff to the track. Maybe I can afford 1/8 if I took the bus instead.:lol::lol: |
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
(Post 3847643)
I only have one suggestion.
Keep It Simple Stupid Nothing RCPro does is simple. If you want it to work, don't over complicate the class right off the bat. You immediately turn off new racers if the rule list is longer than your arm, and it should never be a class aimed at "pro" or open level racers. That's what sedan and 1/8th are for. Geesh. And we wonder why kids would rather sit down with Gran Turismo 5 and a Playstation over an R/C race car. Sometimes “simple” is stupid. Would it be fair for you to race a Monte Carlo off the showroom floor against a Hendrix Motorsports Monte Carlo? Racing “Box Stock” RTR Inferno GT cars against others equipped with Collari modified engines? Now that's stupid. |
I usually don't make posts like this but for once, it has to be said. For those that don't like the IGT class, don't buy one and/or race in it. The other classes will still be available for you to run in. Oh, and don't complain about the IGT class if you are never going to race in it/with one. This is the same analogy as television or radio: if you don't like what you are seeing or hearing, change the channel or station; don't complain about it but continue to keep watching or listening. Not everyone in this hobby can afford the high-priced gear that others of us run. A cheaper, more affordable alternative being offered now may translate into a long-running racer buying better quality gear in the future.
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I plan on racing 1/8 scale & a Kyosho Inferno GT starting next month down here in sunny & warm Tampa Florida.
I guess I'm not a snob:lol: |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3848630)
Sometimes “simple” is stupid.
Would it be fair for you to race a Monte Carlo off the showroom floor against a Hendrix Motorsports Monte Carlo? Racing “Box Stock” RTR Inferno GT cars against others equipped with Collari modified engines? Now that's stupid. That's the dumbest thing I have heard yet in this thread. You want an entry-level class to entice new racers to on-road racing, and yet you are already planning for modified Collari engines in the class? Dumb. Nice analogy, too. If showroom cars were the limits, then there shouldn't be anything else in the picture, right? Limit the class, restrict the rules to a minimum "spec" and be done with it. The more you complicate the rules and the formula, the less inviting it is the any new racer. All you'll have are guys running second classes and no one new populating the class. And to this point, I don't think there have been many—if any—"haters" or detractors to the actually class formula of "GT." My original point was, and I will stand by it, that if you are adding another class just to fill a void left by Outlaw or to try to bring new racers to the fold, there might be better ways to do it than with a buggy class. That's all, nothing else. Don't get your panties in a bunch. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3848731)
I plan on racing 1/8 scale & a Kyosho Inferno GT starting next month down here in sunny & warm Tampa Florida.
I guess I'm not a snob:lol: I did not consider you one of the snobs. In fact, you have been one of the strongest backers of the IGT class. From your posts, you seem to be a promoter, not a detractor to the hobby and racing. I plan on getting one to race in Mississippi with Bvoltz' Bass Pro Series next year if it continues. |
Apex Dude,
WTF are you talking about? There are several HUNDRED Kyosho Inferno GT cars across the USA that have already aftermarket modified engines in them right now. We want them to start racing on Americas tracks. Stock Kyosho Inferno GT cars will race in “Stock Class” Modified Kyosho GT Cars will race in the “Super Stock Class”. Everyone else’s chassis will race in the “Open Class”. RC Pro Series rules for these cars are done. There may be some changes and the 2 modified classes may run at the same time during a race, they’ll just be scored differently according to their class. The rules are simple and intended to try to offer a “level playing field”. That’s all, easy. |
Apex,
I think you kind of missed the point. As many of us know, there are few of us that like to run a car in its stock form. Many that buy kits look for the coolest hop-ups and fastest engines to deck their cars out. There was some foresight here in the fact that with some that want to go that route, there will be a class for you. But, don't get mad when someone spends even more money on their car to go faster and win races. But, if you choose to not invest a ton of money in the car, you will have a class to run it in and still be competitive because the playing field will be level (almost like the IROC series in NASCAR back in the day). I plan on running in the box-stock spec category and save my monies for my other race cars that I race more seriously and competitively. His Collari analogy was to the point that it would not be fair for a race with a box stock car to have to compete with a guy that spend some dollars to get a better engine to run in his car (and having an unfair advantage from the start). |
Originally Posted by JLock
(Post 3848886)
Jspeed,
I did not consider you one of the snobs. In fact, you have been one of the strongest backers of the IGT class. From your posts, you seem to be a promoter, not a detractor to the hobby and racing. I plan on getting one to race in Mississippi with Bvoltz' Bass Pro Series next year if it continues. Barry runs a very cool program for Bass Pro. He gets a wild amount of spectators at every race he has. If you want to have fun racing and feel like a Rock Star, you're going to love racing with Bvoltz. |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3848901)
That's cool, I was just kidding. The guys that "down" the Kyosho Inferno GT cars are the snobs & the haters.:lol::lol:
Barry runs a very cool program for Bass Pro. He gets a wild amount of spectators at every race he has. If you want to have fun racing and feel like a Rock Star, you're going to love racing with Bvoltz. |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3848630)
Sometimes “simple” is stupid.
Racing “Box Stock” RTR Inferno GT cars against others equipped with Collari modified engines? Now that's stupid. The very rules you posted above are going to allow this to happen. I really cant wait to sit back and watch this happen. This is going to be .12 Touring class all over again. Touring started with rubber tires, 3 port motors no mods and gear diffs. Anybody with a HPI RTR could get out there and go. Now .12 touring has been allowed to morf into small 1/8 scale cars with coupe bodys and insanely priced engines. Everybody comes on here carping what worked in the past doesnt apply today yet the fail to LEARN from the mistakes of the past. They just reinvent the wheel and call it the savior of the sport and wonder whut happened 5 years down the road. I would wish for nothing more than IGT to be a hit and a spring board for moving people up to 1/10 touring and or 1/8. But trust me, someone WILL put a $700 Mario in their IGT and they will be a GOOD driver and they will hand heads to all the $400 IGT guys and then it turn to a $1000 class instead of $400 and every one will retreat back to Gameboy or Gran Turisimo. |
You must be reading it incorrectly.
Stock means = stock engine, pipe & clutch. Modified means = not stock engine, pipe & clutch Open means = It’s a free for all. If somebody has a Kyosho Inferno GT with any engine other than the factory unit, they can only race in the RC PRO “Super Stock” or “Open” classes. I hope that clears things up for you.:) Don’t worry, we will “Tech” to stop “cheaters”. Maybe we should post their names when they get busted, just like NASCAR does. |
Originally Posted by JVStrat
(Post 3849372)
But trust me, someone WILL put a $700 Mario in their IGT and they will be a GOOD driver and they will hand heads to all the $400 IGT guys and then it turn to a $1000 class instead of $400 and every one will retreat back to Gameboy or Gran Turisimo.
Since you are so good at pointing out what won't work, perhaps you could enlighten us all on what you think will work to get new people into the sport? |
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Again.... my question.... What is the purpose of limiting the rear window to 2 x 2?
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Originally Posted by Zootcapri
(Post 3849883)
Again.... my question.... What is the purpose of limiting the rear window to 2 x 2?
Carlton Eppes the President of RC Pro Series is at our International Off-Road Championships in Texas this weekend. http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...ackinTexas.jpg When he gets back in town I'll ask him, OK. |
Originally Posted by kreamUNO
(Post 3849796)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/...0c8f05891f.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/...c5b2d1174f.jpg recently dropped in. :) Your IGT would fall into the Supper Stock or Open classes. Have you run it yet? Kyosho Nitrofest December 1-2 SS Speedway, Tampa Florida |
^i've never ran it with the .28 yet.
lookin forward to it. |
Originally Posted by Jspeed
(Post 3848894)
There are several HUNDRED Kyosho Inferno GT cars across the USA that have already aftermarket modified engines in them right now. We want them to start racing on Americas tracks.
Stock Kyosho Inferno GT cars will race in “Stock Class” Modified Kyosho GT Cars will race in the “Super Stock Class”. Everyone else’s chassis will race in the “Open Class”. RC Pro Series rules for these cars are done. There may be some changes and the 2 modified classes may run at the same time during a race, they’ll just be scored differently according to their class. The rules are simple and intended to try to offer a “level playing field”. That’s all, easy.
Originally Posted by JLock
(Post 3848900)
I think you kind of missed the point. As many of us know, there are few of us that like to run a car in its stock form. Many that buy kits look for the coolest hop-ups and fastest engines to deck their cars out. There was some foresight here in the fact that with some that want to go that route, there will be a class for you. But, don't get mad when someone spends even more money on their car to go faster and win races. But, if you choose to not invest a ton of money in the car, you will have a class to run it in and still be competitive because the playing field will be level (almost like the IROC series in NASCAR back in the day).
No, you guys are missing the point of this thread completely. I'm well aware of the national base for these cars and the existing classes in RCPro. This isn't what this discussion is about. It was originally posted by the new Director of the Midwest Series, for open discussion as adding ONE new GT "buggy-based" on-road class (to replace the vanishing 235mm "Outlaw" class) for next years MWS races. Go back and read the original post again. It's not a discussion for a national collection of 3 classes to suit these cars, RCPro Series or otherwise. It's not about everyone else's rules and allowances. Once again, my casual observer input for the proposed MWS "GT" class is to keep it simple (read: spec or close to it), and don't get in over your head right off the bat. If the class is popular and warrants stock, open and other divisions of buggy-based on road cars, then worry about that down the road. Until then, it's an experiment in increasing car counts and participation. I think it could really work if it wasn't allowed to spiral out of control into an open pit for spending. Just my two cents. |
Originally Posted by JVStrat
(Post 3849372)
The very rules you posted above are going to allow this to happen. I really cant wait to sit back and watch this happen. This is going to be .12 Touring class all over again. Touring started with rubber tires, 3 port motors no mods and gear diffs. Anybody with a HPI RTR could get out there and go. Now .12 touring has been allowed to morf into small 1/8 scale cars with coupe bodies and insanely priced engines. Everybody comes on here carping what worked in the past doesn't apply today yet the fail to LEARN from the mistakes of the past. They just reinvent the wheel and call it the savior of the sport and wonder what happened 5 years down the road. I would wish for nothing more than IGT to be a hit and a spring board for moving people up to 1/10 touring and or 1/8. But trust me, someone WILL put a $700 Mario in their IGT and they will be a GOOD driver and they will hand heads to all the $400 IGT guys and then it turn to a $1000 class instead of $400 and every one will retreat back to Gameboy or Gran Turisimo.
Very well spoken. THAT was my point. In order for an entry level class to function well for new racers, it has to be KEPT ENTRY LEVEL, and that means NO open or modified classes. Period. End of story. All an open or modified GT class does is create another class to divide and conquer the already thinning other advanced level on road classes that exist. Why dilute existing classes down more? You want to ADD to the car counts, not subtract from existing ones by moving racers from one class to another. RTR, Spec, Limited or whatever you want to call it, if you want new blood racing gas on-road cars, you have to offer a simple, uncomplicated and inexpensive way to get their feet wet. Allowing guys to use open or modified motors completely defeats the purpose of this particular class for the MWS. |
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
(Post 3851011)
Very well spoken. THAT was my point. In order for an entry level class to function well for new racers, it has to be KEPT ENTRY LEVEL, and that means NO open or modified classes. Period. End of story.
All an open or modified GT class does is create another class to divide and conquer the already thinning other advanced level on road classes that exist. Why dilute existing classes down more? You want to ADD to the car counts, not subtract from existing ones by moving racers from one class to another. RTR, Spec, Limited or whatever you want to call it, if you want new blood racing gas on-road cars, you have to offer a simple, uncomplicated and inexpensive way to get their feet wet. Allowing guys to use open or modified motors completely defeats the purpose of this particular class for the MWS. According to your suggestion of a “Single Class KISS System” a converted GT buggy owner with a RB S7 engine for example, would be racing against an “RTR” engine or else he’d be forced to purchase an “approved” engine in order to race in your “Single Class KISS System”. Your “Single Class KISS System” will give the RB S7 powered GT car owner a power advantage or the financial disadvantage according to the “Single Class KISS System” system. If the intention is to attract as many new racers to on-road racing as possible, then the “Single Class KISS System” for GT cars is engineering failure of the new class even before it starts in your area. Before you start saying “this is our thread” or “you don’t belong here” or “this thread is for MWS only” just answer the questions I’m presented to you, I’m sure the entire RC racing world of RC Tech that has been reading this thread might be interested in your views. OK Good, here we go! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You know very well that when the RTR engine gets tired the owner usually wants to replace it with something a little stronger. What about the engines in the hundreds of these cars in your area, do you want them to race with your series too? Is your single system going to allow the guy with the Ninja .28 & JP3 pipe to race against a “Factory Stock” Kyosho Inferno GT? What if Mr. Ninja gets a “Centax Clutch” for that bad boy down the road, still only one class? The thought of “thinning” or “diluting” existing classes of on-road racing could be a genuine fear for some, but isn’t that already happening now? Would you rather a racer live beyond his means to remain competitive in the current on-road system that exists, when we can all offer different levels of financial investment with these classes? Do you think the current “foreclosure crisis” situation across America is going to affect our sport in 2008 in a positive manner? Do you want to attract new people and keep more people involved in on-road RC racing or not? |
The opinions solicited here are for the Midwest Series, and your experiences with the class are fine to do with whatever you want. This is NOT the RCPro Series. If you want to continue ranting about the foreclosure rates in the U.S and how they effect the hobby world, go right ahead. I won't stop you, but I have better things to do with my time.
If the MWS wants an entry level class, then make it an entry level class, and don't give wiggle room for experienced racers to cherry pick and turn it into a cubic dollar class. Go look at 'stock' electric touring cars if you want to see what happens to an "entry level" class when the rules are lax. If you want to appeal to crossover racers from off road buggy racing, then tailor it to be for them, but I think the MWS would be missing the boat with that plan. I just don't see the potential for a large influx of dirt buggy racers converting their cars to race on-road instead of what they were made for. That's just me, I could be wrong—it's just an educated guess there. In the end, adding classes adds time to the race day, dilutes other known classes, and spreads a known user-base thinner than it already is. Any serious off road racers who want to cross over will likely do so with an on-road specific race car built for on-road racing. Your pool for new racers to fill the class are likely other R/C racers who are looking to wade into the shallow end or new R/C hobbyists looking for something less intimidating to start out with. By the time they have worn out their engine, they will step up to something faster, or choose to stay in the class and replace the engine with an OEM lump. Don't give anyone the chance to buy a Centax clutch, and they won't. If they do, they can't use it in this class. Pretty simple. That's what rules are for. The GT class idea for MWS is a good one. Just make sure that you aren't trying to be all things for everyone, and you'll have a successful formula. If you'd like to see a real life example of where too many classes hurts the overall good of the hobby/sport, have a look at the direction the SCCA has been heading for the last 4 years. My comments aren't based in hypothesis, but from experience. I'll leave it there. The powers that are making the decisions in the MWS will take everyone's comments for whatever they are worth. Carry on. Doug |
I have no problem with hearing from the RC-pro people (or anyone else), on this topic. One of the reasons I started this as a seperate thread from the MWS, is to hear from a wider base...
For the MWS, several different classes of the same type of car, will not work. As mentioned, this class is intended as a possible replacement for the extinct 235 class. The MWS is a somewhat different operation than a 'static' facillity (be it club or commercial track). Since we move around to different sites throughout the season (and other reasons), our thrust must be--to appeal to existing racers. Whereas, the club or commercial track must be concerned with getting new people into the hobby. If we are to add this class, I want it to have as broad appeal as possible. I would like to see it as a less expensive class, but we are not usually in a position to do a lot of 'tech'. Limmiting it to buggy-based cars like the IGT or OFNA Ultra GTP, or even self-converted buggies, helps. The biggest problem is engines. I like the idea of limiting it to .28 (maximum) sport engines. The likes of which are included in RTR truggies and monster trucks. More later... people comming in the store.. |
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
(Post 3851345)
The opinions
In the end, adding classes adds time to the race day, dilutes other known classes, and spreads a known user-base thinner than it already is. Any serious off road racers who want to cross over will likely do so with an on-road specific race car built for on-road racing. Your pool for new racers to fill the class are likely other R/C racers who are looking to wade into the shallow end or new R/C hobbyists looking for something less intimidating to start out with. By the time they have worn out their engine, they will step up to something faster, or choose to stay in the class and replace the engine with an OEM lump. Don't give anyone the chance to buy a Centax clutch, and they won't. If they do, they can't use it in this class. Pretty simple. That's what rules are for. Doug |
Originally Posted by duneland
(Post 3851404)
I have no problem with hearing from the RC-pro people (or anyone else), on this topic. One of the reasons I started this as a seperate thread from the MWS, is to hear from a wider base...
For the MWS, several different classes of the same type of car, will not work. As mentioned, this class is intended as a possible replacement for the extinct 235 class. The MWS is a somewhat different operation than a 'static' facillity (be it club or commercial track). Since we move around to different sites throughout the season (and other reasons), our thrust must be--to appeal to existing racers. Whereas, the club or commercial track must be concerned with getting new people into the hobby. If we are to add this class, I want it to have as broad appeal as possible. I would like to see it as a less expensive class, but we are not usually in a position to do a lot of 'tech'. Limmiting it to buggy-based cars like the IGT or OFNA Ultra GTP, or even self-converted buggies, helps. The biggest problem is engines. I like the idea of limiting it to .28 (maximum) sport engines. The likes of which are included in RTR truggies and monster trucks. More later... people comming in the store.. Thanks Duneland! It seems old “Apex” & “Mr. My Leaky Diff” are suffering from that nasty anti- RC Pro Series virus. As far as people putting Mario sleeves in “factory” Kyosho engines in our RC Pro Series “Stock GT” class, you don’t have to tear every motor apart, no that would be ignorant. All that needs to be checked is the winner’s car. The best thing will be when someone is caught, that their name & picture be posted so they can be marked as a “low life cheater” and barred from future events. Jack Nicholson that said it best: “This town needs an enema!” |
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