Kakenballs

iTrader: (11)

My home track is fear farm where the dnc is. Now the track conditions are rough/blowout with ruts loose but low/med grip wet to dry just depends what part of the race program you are on. The start of practice/1st heats of qual the az heat & sun haven't dried the track out yet by mid day & late afternoon the track is dry but watered as much as it can be. Then by mains it's back to wet medium grip again. Ambient Temp is 78'f-95'f so the track surface temperature is close but in the hundreds at the hottest part. X3 suppressors & X3 holeshots are the tires to run. I'm changing my shock package from 6x1.35 37.5f ae 6x1.35 32.5r ae to 8x1.3 37.5f ae 8x1.3 32.5r ae. Up or down with ambient temps. Then I'm moving the camber links to see if that change allows the rear to rotate more. Right now it's the longest link possible & the rear end never breaks loose even if you get in the loose outer edges. My buggy is the ae rc8b3 with the dnc setup - the s-workz rear hubs & tanner dennys fear farm shock package. Will keep you posted last time out best lap was a 41.85 with an average of 43.5 for 5 laps. So hopefully I can drop the average a bit & keep on pace with the local pro's which is very hard when they are most of the big names. Mayfield Stees Ripken Fisher Truhe & Denny.

Kakenballs

iTrader: (11)

So went up on shock package like I thought 7.5. The changes on the rear camber link really helped the setup. Ended up with out on the tower & middle down on the hub. Tried super short it was to much. But I must say I went from running a light 9 lap pace in qualifying to 10 lap with 1 mistake total short of an 11 lap pace. My fastest lap from before ended being my 5 lap average now. Which tells me I'm going about 5-10 seconds faster & more consistent. The buggy was so easy to drive. Thanks guys!

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the write up, just have a couple questions. Is that position attainable with stock hub? About damping, does one end it feels like one is stiffer than the other? I say that because you are already running different shock oil front and rear and I advice to run staggered piston hole size front to rear, 1.2f and 1.3r for example. Could you give that a shot?

Also, how far behind are you from top drivers?

I'm the one grateful, thanks for giving my advice a try.

Kakenballs

iTrader: (11)

So the only pro driver this weekend was tanner denny his fast lap was 39.400 with a 5 lap average of 40.100 & overall average of 40.599 that's for 11 lap qualifying. He didn't stay to run the main. My times were 42.100 fast lap with a 5 lap average of 44.200 then an overall average of 45.500 on 10 lap qualifier. I was 8 secs short of a 11 lap run! To answer the question about the shock package I don't know 100% yet. I made so many changes. I ran the last change untested & went for the main. Started 3rd finish 4th bad start then made 2 mistakes trying out pace the 4 guys in front of me at that time I was in 7th maybe 8th by the end of the 25 min main. I was back close to 3rd. So the car like you said could use a smaller piston up front to make the oils feel the same. Was just really trying to have it all ready for next weekend which I know now I'm so close! I had to break in a motor with all those changes also. But the buggy feel fantastic! I had a guy test the buggy from day 1 of this ordeal & after yesterday's test he said wow I want this thing now. He couldn't believe how it's come along. But the comment did come out are all the parts factory I had to say oh hell no. The car has about 65% Ae stuff with the rest coming from mugen losi s-workz m2c kings-head lunsford & avid. After looking at all the parts & cost would I do the fight again hell no! Thanks for all the help with this project will keep you posted on more stuff to come. Most of the local pro guys are at pnb or doing family stuff.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

You got to work on that overall average, find a comfortable setup and push even more. Try a different adjustment each time out, for example caster, camber and toe.

About the new XB9 front end setup, it's golden. As I predicted, the front end starting bite means the rear starts rotating sooner but it's controllable and I tried it in hail soaked dirt (excuses... ).

Kakenballs

iTrader: (11)

Toe is .5 and caster is at the least amount, camber in the front is 2'. Ride height is 28f 29r so the track conditions are not as rough do to the rain & track maintenance they did on Sunday.

Kakenballs

iTrader: (11)

I've got enough steering & handles bumps great so caster is ok, toe is .5 out could go to 1' total & the track is smooth with no ruts tire wear on the front is down the middle camber is 1.75-2'. But it's so close I feel

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

Ah so you're not running the DNC setup 100%, at least the front end setup is critical to shed some excess on power steering but I'm afraid the rear won't be as locked in as in your setup.

stanleyw808

Hello 30Tooth,

This might be already been awhile but I just knew about this thread. Very nice one!!!

I just want to ask about Your writing about "..raising the hub lowered RC height..". In my understanding, Raising Hub Position will raise the RC. Could You enlighten me..

Cheers..

stanleyw808

Hello again 30Tooth,

I just reached to page 5 of this thread and read Your writing below.

I would say that the engine would spin at about 3.54 times the speed of the Center Diff if using 13/46 ratio. Or according to the ratio that is used.

Cheers..

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

Hi and thanks, I am readying some stuff to post here so stay tuned.

Sure, cars with more than one position for the outer hinge pin to pass through the hub/upright have that extra roll center height adjustment. Raising/lowering the hub is not correct but it was the way we said so it stuck, what it effectively changes is by order of magnitude: droop, ride height, roll center height and axle plunge. Droop, ride height and axle plunge is something you see right away as you have to reset droop and ride height between that geometry change. About roll center height it's because you changed the distance between the lower and upper suspension pick up points at the outer side, it was like lowering the camber link at the inner side, so increasing distance between lower and upper outer suspension pick up points is raising RC height, increasing distance between lower and upper inner suspension pick up points is lowering RC height and vice versa.

This is something I want to test once it stops raining because that lower RC height adjustment is a different step than using any other upper RC height adjustment. It doesn't mess much with camber gain and you can revert the changes in some cars like, HB D81x (having an epiphany right now!), the JQ cars, MBX5R and other cars with more than one upper row on the hub/upright. My understanding is that each lower hub/upright hole can and should be a different setup for varying grip levels, a setup shortcut. For example the lower position (meaning raising the hub/upright) is better suited to smoother high grip tracks and the upper position (lowering the hub/upright) to bumpy low grip tracks.

Cheers! At last someone found the error! Indeed your math is correct, I was thinking of the final drive ratio and wrote the center diff when it should be the wheels.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

With multiple hub/upright lower positions and upper hub/upright rows of holes/camber plates one can play with amount of steering and ride height without changing camber gain nor RC height. It's weird how isolated those changes can stay and yet change how the car reacts so profoundly. The MP9 is this way but only has two possibilities of keeping changes isolated. This has to be intended.

The goal is to maintain same distance between older lower and upper suspension pick up points and the new chosen positions. For example the MP9, the normal setups use the lower inner arm mount low RC and the hub/upright upper row; for higher grip tracks the high RC and the low row on the hub/upright can be used in conjunction with going down a hole in the inner camber link position, resetting droop and ride height and voila you still have the same handling manners but have now a car better suited for higher grip tracks. Same deal front end wise.

Because technically you changed CG height (ride height) and kept the same RC height so the distance between them (roll couple) is diminished it means the car rolls less and is theoretically faster if the tires can take it. The point is to keep the same point where the chassis inertial forces exert at the tires, which should be around the contact patch center.

Another great example is the RC8.2 mods. Once the team drilled a lower hole on the shock tower they unlocked the upper hole on the rear hub/upright, before it wasn't an option and therefore the car suffered.

Hope to not confuse, if it isn't clear please say so.

Stirex

Ok so I attempted to setup the Tekno EB48.3 using your method.. some measurements I took while doing it.

Arm lengths from pin to pin
Front - 90
Rear - 100

Front hinge pin center was 10.8
Rear hinge pin center was 9.8

So using the lowest pills I had, with front arms level the ride height is right around 26-27. The rear however with arms level is 30+ mm . I know that the focus isn't the number, but I also know, that no was its going to handle great with 30mm.. Anyways I loaded the basic setup that it came out too. Maybe I'm way off base, but let me know. Also max droop on this thing is like 121 front and 136 rear. Also I have no way to raise or lower the pin on the rear hub.

A and B block are reversed.. A is center, B is all the way down.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

One question, did you had a THE Car?
The 30mm ride height is great actually, depending where the roll center is. The Tekno is like my XB9 in the bushings setup, except mine has around 28mm with pins all the way down, which means around 25mm or less with pins up. Easy to do, just run the inner hinge pin raised, like 1 dot up on the C plate and 2 dots up (or up and sideways to maintain toe) on the D plate while moving the camber link up one or two holes on the shock tower. With what I know now I would run middle out on the shock tower and B or C hole on the hub, after using the aforementioned C-D plate bushing setup.

Going by the setup I would say you are trying to tame the beast particularly on power right? The rear pins up should provide plenty of grip, don't forget to move up the inner camber link or the RC height would be too high. The front looks OK.

Stirex

Yes I did have THE Cars. Besides durability issues, could never get them where I could push them, plus the hated bumpy tracks.

I will move the pills. You're saying to run all the way up on C Block and .5 from all the way top on D. Regarding the camber link locations. You stated that the fronts should be lower than the rears. So if I move the rear link up one..should I move the fronts up one or leave them based on everything being correct on the front? Also a mod that was being tried on these was to raise the whole rear different by 1.5mm. If I left the pills the same and raised the diff this woulday allow me to come closers to the ride height, but would have make the difference higher and have the drive shafts angle towards the hubs..diff being higher.

Ultimately the problem I'm having is the car never really feels in the track..more on top of.. as you described earlier. I'd like it to feel more stable and be able to push it , but maintain steering and bump handling