TLR 8ight 3.0 Gas Buggy/Truggy?
01-29-2015, 11:39 AM
#31
Okay fellow racers/bashers..let's look into our crystal ball and see what we'll be playing with in the near future at our local track.
Hmmm I see a young fellow putting in some practice laps in his 1/8 scale gas powered buggy.
A 5HP 3.5cc mill with a screaming 50,000RPM exhaust note that would make the F1 industry blush today.
Oh wait! What's this? Computerized fuel injection.
"HEY JOHNNY! slow down I have to richen it up a bit!"
His pit man takes out his tablet and makes the appropriate changes, and little Johnny starts ripping down the straight again…
Hmmm I see a young fellow putting in some practice laps in his 1/8 scale gas powered buggy.
A 5HP 3.5cc mill with a screaming 50,000RPM exhaust note that would make the F1 industry blush today.
Oh wait! What's this? Computerized fuel injection.
"HEY JOHNNY! slow down I have to richen it up a bit!"
His pit man takes out his tablet and makes the appropriate changes, and little Johnny starts ripping down the straight again…
01-29-2015, 01:08 PM
#32
yeah totally the technology of these engines will change and find a 'way'
may even only need to replace conrods and piston rings in the future lol.
everyone needs to rememberr its early technology in time it will progress may be able to add additives to incrrease the octane of fuel etc.
or sell a speacial grade of fuel which iis cheaper then nitro.
may even begin seeing auto starters installed on them etc so no more losing a lap from a flame out.
and oh diid i forget some sort of instant turbo charger lols. instant response turbo
may even only need to replace conrods and piston rings in the future lol.
everyone needs to rememberr its early technology in time it will progress may be able to add additives to incrrease the octane of fuel etc.
or sell a speacial grade of fuel which iis cheaper then nitro.
may even begin seeing auto starters installed on them etc so no more losing a lap from a flame out.
and oh diid i forget some sort of instant turbo charger lols. instant response turbo
01-29-2015, 02:59 PM
#34
Okay fellow racers/bashers..let's look into our crystal ball and see what we'll be playing with in the near future at our local track.
Hmmm I see a young fellow putting in some practice laps with his 1/8 scale gas powered buggy.
A 5HP 3.5cc mill with a screaming 50,000RPM exhaust note that would make the F1 industry blush today.
Oh wait! What's this? Computerized fuel injection.
Pit man looks up.
"HEY JOHNNY! slow down I have to richen it up a bit!"
His pit man takes out his tablet and makes the appropriate changes, and little Johnny starts ripping down the straight again…
Hmmm I see a young fellow putting in some practice laps with his 1/8 scale gas powered buggy.
A 5HP 3.5cc mill with a screaming 50,000RPM exhaust note that would make the F1 industry blush today.
Oh wait! What's this? Computerized fuel injection.
Pit man looks up.
"HEY JOHNNY! slow down I have to richen it up a bit!"
His pit man takes out his tablet and makes the appropriate changes, and little Johnny starts ripping down the straight again…
http://www.powercommander.com/powerc...r/default.aspx
honestly the whole idea of a gasoline engine is counter productive for racing. we want lighter faster cars. the gas engine is bigger and probably heavier than the equivalent power nitro engine. not to mention nitro fuel never goes bad. gasoline goes bad in just a few months (2-3). so once it's mixed with 2 stroke oil you have to use it soon. you can't just dump the rest in your family car.
but you also can't just go to any corner usa and buy nitro fuel. or the brand you wish to use anywhere near your home for that matter.
it is the future whether we like it or not. I think a lot of people(not racers) will want one over nitro. because for every racer at heart there are 10 "bashers" that rather have traxxas. and I think the idea behind this buggy is to hopefully steal some of the traxxas customers.
just wait till the people that buy these try to use silicone fuel line. you have to use tygon instead. silicone isn't gasoline compatible. how many hobby shops are going to sell tygon fuel line. probably not any that isn't into planes.
Last edited by mtpocketsracing; 01-29-2015 at 03:16 PM.
01-29-2015, 07:48 PM
#35
I would get one just so I could the same fuel they use in supercross cause it smells so good and just run it in my room!
01-29-2015, 11:03 PM
#36
I don't think there are any LST people here (I have two LST2's..), but in the XXL-2 thread the state of this engine looks dire. One, it seems to have a fatal flaw with the conrod. Multiple guys breaking multiple conrods. For the most part these are guys who spent a lot of money on the XXL-2 and followed the break-in instructions carefully. Then the rod would break. Horizon would send them a new one, or a whole engine. And same thing - broken rod. There really aren't many people out there with the XXL-2 with gallons and gallons on it.
And the next kicker... Now guys are reporting that, if they do manage to get it running, it cuts out when landing jumps.... If that is another issue, that's a nail in the coffin, obviously.., if it's ever supposed to work in offroad buggies and truggies.
The idea that "issues will be resolved" is not necessarily a given. There has to be a big enough market for it. There is a big misperception spread by Traxxas fanboys and locah hobby mc-chain shops that nitro is hard, finnicky, high-maintenance, etc. Again, this is because all these people know is crummy Traxxas RTR engines. So that's the main marketing angle with this gas engine for 8th scale. But you're already starting to see talk of converting them to nitro (or electric). The gas engine is unreliable, the fuel with oil is expensive, it cuts out on landings, it lacks the power and speed of nitro and electric, and the whole truck itself, plus the engine separately, is expensive.
The big issue is the bogus image of nitro among Traxxas fanboys and LHS's pushing Traxxas junk, which has spread around forums. Nitro is not hard. I've been reading in the forums about XXL-2 and Savage Octane owners getting frustrated with all the tuning involved and other issues, not even to mention subpar performance. And I keep telling them, put an LRP ZR.30X with the pullstart backplate in it, and it's super easy to tune, cheaper than the gas engines... (OK, nitro is expensive, no denying that..), and will totally smoke both the XXL-2 and Octane engines. I have a lot of experience with basher engines, and unlike the cheaper SH/LRP/Nosram/LRP 454 type .28 engines, the LRZ ZR.30X has a much better carb and will idle all day compared to the cheaper engines. And it has mega power... My one LST2 is sitting in a heap because my ZR.30X (Nosram version actually) ate the transmission....
Which is all ironic, really. Because my kick-axx nitro engine is the basis they used to make this Dynamite gas thing, which apparently just doesn't work like the marketers hoped...
Maybe I'm totally wrong and this will take off and everybody will love it and new race classes will emerge and the 8th scale bashing scene will be reinvigorated. But nothing I have seen points in that direction. On the contrary, it looks like a flop before it's even out of the gate. Though the sales pitch sounds nice, in an incredibly superficial way. But we'll see... I wonder what the price for the bug and trug will be. Not going to be a friendly price I reckon..
And the next kicker... Now guys are reporting that, if they do manage to get it running, it cuts out when landing jumps.... If that is another issue, that's a nail in the coffin, obviously.., if it's ever supposed to work in offroad buggies and truggies.
The idea that "issues will be resolved" is not necessarily a given. There has to be a big enough market for it. There is a big misperception spread by Traxxas fanboys and locah hobby mc-chain shops that nitro is hard, finnicky, high-maintenance, etc. Again, this is because all these people know is crummy Traxxas RTR engines. So that's the main marketing angle with this gas engine for 8th scale. But you're already starting to see talk of converting them to nitro (or electric). The gas engine is unreliable, the fuel with oil is expensive, it cuts out on landings, it lacks the power and speed of nitro and electric, and the whole truck itself, plus the engine separately, is expensive.
The big issue is the bogus image of nitro among Traxxas fanboys and LHS's pushing Traxxas junk, which has spread around forums. Nitro is not hard. I've been reading in the forums about XXL-2 and Savage Octane owners getting frustrated with all the tuning involved and other issues, not even to mention subpar performance. And I keep telling them, put an LRP ZR.30X with the pullstart backplate in it, and it's super easy to tune, cheaper than the gas engines... (OK, nitro is expensive, no denying that..), and will totally smoke both the XXL-2 and Octane engines. I have a lot of experience with basher engines, and unlike the cheaper SH/LRP/Nosram/LRP 454 type .28 engines, the LRZ ZR.30X has a much better carb and will idle all day compared to the cheaper engines. And it has mega power... My one LST2 is sitting in a heap because my ZR.30X (Nosram version actually) ate the transmission....
Which is all ironic, really. Because my kick-axx nitro engine is the basis they used to make this Dynamite gas thing, which apparently just doesn't work like the marketers hoped...
Maybe I'm totally wrong and this will take off and everybody will love it and new race classes will emerge and the 8th scale bashing scene will be reinvigorated. But nothing I have seen points in that direction. On the contrary, it looks like a flop before it's even out of the gate. Though the sales pitch sounds nice, in an incredibly superficial way. But we'll see... I wonder what the price for the bug and trug will be. Not going to be a friendly price I reckon..
01-30-2015, 04:54 AM
#37
Herr, Horizon revised the break in procedures, I think it was just a basic tune change but I don't know/want to know more. For a number of con rods you read here that broke, others are doing fine. The Octane was/is having CDI issues too, basically because the manufacturer's lack of quality control. It will get better, absolutely yes.
IMO the future of nitro is lowering the nitro content.
IMO the future of nitro is lowering the nitro content.
01-30-2015, 06:49 AM
#39
I don't know much about gas engines, but it seems to me dubious somehow that making some slight changes to the recommended break-in procedure is the solution to what sounds more like a more fundamental, mechanical issue... You can buy nitro engines, including the same nitro engine this gas engine is based off, and treat it poorly during break in and even after and have it not blow a rod.
I have never broken a rod on any engine, and these guys in the XXL-2 thread have been breaking multiple rods. That doesn't sound like a mere break-in setting issue to me... But again, I may well be wrong, so who knows...
I have never broken a rod on any engine, and these guys in the XXL-2 thread have been breaking multiple rods. That doesn't sound like a mere break-in setting issue to me... But again, I may well be wrong, so who knows...
01-30-2015, 09:31 AM
#40
I saw most of the conrods, damage by lack of lubrication is very likely the culprit. Now if the break in procedure is not fit or the conrod oil hole is small or the oil not suitable, that's something for Horizon techs.
One more thing, is that clutch and flywheel brass?
One more thing, is that clutch and flywheel brass?
01-31-2015, 03:08 AM
#41
I wonder if the sh engine is more reliable. Look on youtube for it. They have a video of it.
the gas engine also has some kind of sensor on the front of the engine and what looks like a control module for the ignition system.
Adding more weight to the car and more parts that can fail.
Ill stick to nitro engines thanks.
the gas engine also has some kind of sensor on the front of the engine and what looks like a control module for the ignition system.
Adding more weight to the car and more parts that can fail.
Ill stick to nitro engines thanks.
02-01-2015, 12:32 AM
#42
The SH buggy/truggy engine is guaranteed to be the same from the same factory. The basis of it is the LRP .30 which has been out for a long time. Just like the Dynamite in the XXL-2.
For years with MT engines, SH, LRP, Dynamite, Mach, Losi, Nosram, etc.. have all offered basically the same engines from the same factory, just different colors and names....
For years with MT engines, SH, LRP, Dynamite, Mach, Losi, Nosram, etc.. have all offered basically the same engines from the same factory, just different colors and names....
02-01-2015, 06:56 AM
#43
The SH buggy/truggy engine is guaranteed to be the same from the same factory. The basis of it is the LRP .30 which has been out for a long time. Just like the Dynamite in the XXL-2.
For years with MT engines, SH, LRP, Dynamite, Mach, Losi, Nosram, etc.. have all offered basically the same engines from the same factory, just different colors and names....
For years with MT engines, SH, LRP, Dynamite, Mach, Losi, Nosram, etc.. have all offered basically the same engines from the same factory, just different colors and names....
have you ever noticed how many things look the same in an electric car? lots...
most batteries are made at the same factory. except the label that's on it makes it worth $100 more.
02-01-2015, 09:24 AM
#44
Tech Initiate
I have to give credit to Losi, at least they're trying something new.
I think the main reason newcomers choose the electric route is the convenience . Turn the switch on and go, the motor will not die until the battery is depleted.
Now imagine one day a gas powered RC buggy that needs very little tuning if any..like the 5th scale.
I wouldn't personally buy one (yet) but when the technology is perfected I will. I'm glad they released this kit. The future looks good for our hobby.
I think the main reason newcomers choose the electric route is the convenience . Turn the switch on and go, the motor will not die until the battery is depleted.
Now imagine one day a gas powered RC buggy that needs very little tuning if any..like the 5th scale.
I wouldn't personally buy one (yet) but when the technology is perfected I will. I'm glad they released this kit. The future looks good for our hobby.
02-04-2015, 10:09 PM
#45
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
I've never ran a nitro or a small gas engine like this... but wouldn't it be a good idea to have this Dynamite gas engine broken in and tuned from the factory before it gets to the customers? That would eliminate the issues people have during break in... if that is indeed the cause of these issues. The end users could enjoy driving it right out of the box which would be another bonus