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XRAY Buggy Setup Guide

XRAY Buggy Setup Guide

Old 07-18-2014, 07:19 AM
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Default XRAY Buggy Setup Guide

Hello,


I have already asked in the XRAY Forum, but not geed any respponse. But here a many XRAY sponsored driver very active, so I will ask also here:

Is there any chance to create a new setup guide? The "old" setup guide is not that helpfull anymore, since a lot of things have been changed (upper roll center, chassis flex as a new option...)

I am a bit jealous about the JQ setup guide. That is a great mixture about theorie but also a lot of JQs own experiances with his car. The general part is usefull also for other cars, but a lot of stuff is especially for his car.

I would appriciate to get something similar from XRAY.

Jrg
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:25 AM
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Physics doesn't care what chassis you drive. The principles of how to setup a car are the same no matter the surface, chassis, scale, etc. For example, lowering the roll center will produce more roll, doesn't matter if you're on carpet or loamy dirt.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:29 PM
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Yea, the guide works for any car, doesn't matter if it's pillow ball like the new or like the old XB9. Same idea, maybe you just need pictures to help you? That would be the only change for new car.
Camber is still camber
Tow is still tow etc
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:19 AM
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They do need to add an explanation of what moving the inner arm hingepin locations does.

I'm not talking about kickup, antisquat, toe, etc. etc. That's easy.

I'm talking about moving the entire inner arm hingepin up, down, out, or in. What does that do to roll center? when, and why should you change the pin locations.

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
They do need to add an explanation of what moving the inner arm hingepin locations does.

I'm not talking about kickup, antisquat, toe, etc. etc. That's easy.

I'm talking about moving the entire inner arm hingepin up, down, out, or in. What does that do to roll center? when, and why should you change the pin locations.
Lowing the entire rear hinge pin will lower the roll center. It will roll a little more just like raising the link on the tower, but it's effects are more pronounced than doing the same thing on the tower (i.e. lowering rear hinge pin 1mm will have a greater effect than raising the link on the tower the same amount). In most conditions, lowering the hinge pin and running the link lower on the tower to get a similar amount of roll will produce more rear traction than a medium height hinge pin and parallel links would. Generally, on looser tracks you would want the rear hinge pin lower, and vise versa on high bite tracks.

Lowering the entire front hinge pin will make the front end more aggressive and will transfer slightly less weight under breaking. The same role center rules apply from the rear, but there are more variables with raising the front because of the chassis kickup and steering system. Mounting the front hinge pins high, and then using less kickup will make the steering less aggressive while not transferring excessive weight to the front under breaking. I don't have any track specific rules for this because it mostly depends on how your front end feels.

Moving the hinge pins inwards is more complicated because hinge pin width and arm length go hand and hand, so when you only narrow the hinge pin width, it will decrease the track width as well. Using wider hexes to compensate for the width makes it even more complex because the hexes change hub offset among other things. That being said, narrower hinge pin holders and longer arms will give the car a more slow reacting stable feel. Mugen, for example, went from a narrow hinge pin holder and long rear arm with the 6 to a wide hinge pin holder and shorter rear arm with the 7, which makes the rear end more aggressive. JQ did the opposite with both the front and rear ends on the WE.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:44 PM
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Now what about cars that do not have inner hingepin adjustments of raising or lowering but have upper and lower options in the castor blocks and rear hubs.
I think it's the opposite but would like to have it explained like you did with the inner hingepins and the relationship with link adjustments...
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KingdomRacer View Post
Now what about cars that do not have inner hingepin adjustments of raising or lowering but have upper and lower options in the castor blocks and rear hubs.
I think it's the opposite but would like to have it explained like you did with the inner hingepins and the relationship with link adjustments...
Raising the rear hub (lower hole) will give the car a bit less rear grip, but it will lose traction more gradually. If the rear hubs are too high, the car will be loose everywhere, and if they are too low, the car will feel edgy as traction will be inconsistent. It will have more traction up to a point, then lose it suddenly. If you raise the rear hub, for example, go 1 hole higher on the rear tower to keep the roll center similar. Arms and drive shafts parallel at ride height is a good base.

Raising the front c-hub (lower hole) will make the steering less responsive. It will have a little less front end grip and you can drive the car harder. This is mainly used on rough tracks or tracks with aggressive traction, like the 2012 Worlds. Lowering the front c-hub will give the car more steering and it will feel more aggressive. This is used on small, clay tracks where the track is smooth and consistent.

As always, make sure to readjust your droop and ride height after making these changes so the results will be more clear.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:00 PM
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Thanks for the time!
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:01 AM
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there is a website.. http://users.telenet.be/elvo/ that has a ton of information.. and if you use that information correctly.. you will begin to see what does what.. when raising the link, or lowering links.. its hard to read and understand.. however.. he shows pictures, and gif's.. that if you were to actually put it on paper.. and draw it out.. you would understand..

go to suspension, page 3, and you will see..

just some things i have noticed.. rod length adjust roll center.. very slightly.. and also depends on ride height..

example.. in this example.. lets say you keep everything the same.. ride height.. camber.. all that.. all we are doing is moving the rear upper camber link, and shortening, by changing location in the tower.. from inner, to outer hole

in the rear upper link.. if the link is lower on the inside.. vs.. out near the wheel.. slanting down towards the shock tower.. and you shorten the link, meaning.. move it out one hole on the tower.. you will slightly lower the roll center..

however.. if the link is higher or is slanting up towards the tower.. it has the opposite effect.. but very slightly..

This is the same for the front upper link as well..

Again.. this is just one small aspect of upper link length changes.. there are way more things that rod length affect.. but this is one small affect..
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:17 PM
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Default Theory vs. Reality

Looking through that website posted above, consider theory vs reality. You can spend hours memorizing everything on that website, but once you get to the track, you will have so much going through your head that it makes it easy to get lost. I think it's far more beneficial to spend time at the track focusing on link positions than spending the same amount of time researching roll centers online. It's like reading theory in a textbook vs actually doing it. The basic info in the telenet, JQ, and Hudy guides are good, but the only way to truly understand is to do it yourself.

Another way to learn quickly is while marshaling or watching experts race, focus on each cars handling traits. Take note of how much the car rolls, it's steering, when it breaks traction and what causes it, and how aggressive the driver is.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:30 PM
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completely agree with that.. 100%
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