werks b6 vs nova p5xlt
08-10-2010, 01:40 PM
#61
Nova Rossi all the way. I love my P5. It's never game me a problem. Never flames and needs only minor tuning changes. It's been great like all my Nova'a have been. I've not had tuning issues with my RB or OS either though.
I'm sure Werks makes a great engine. Although I've yet to see someone run one with out problems. Ron does a great job helping out though and seems to be a great guy. Jeremy Kortz is a great guy for the team.
I have no problem with RB Five saying what he said. He hit a nerve with people though. It's called free speech. You should want to protect it before it's gone. It's a slippery slope when you start to tell people what they can say and not say. I do think things should be done with respect though.
I still believe the product should do the talking not the people. Although people can make a product look bad.
I'm sure Werks makes a great engine. Although I've yet to see someone run one with out problems. Ron does a great job helping out though and seems to be a great guy. Jeremy Kortz is a great guy for the team.
I have no problem with RB Five saying what he said. He hit a nerve with people though. It's called free speech. You should want to protect it before it's gone. It's a slippery slope when you start to tell people what they can say and not say. I do think things should be done with respect though.
I still believe the product should do the talking not the people. Although people can make a product look bad.
Last edited by Chris Reilly; 08-10-2010 at 02:04 PM.
08-10-2010, 01:42 PM
#62
I have never run a B6 so all I can say is based on observation. It seems like a great engine, similar to the smoothness of a plus-4.
Now the P5 I do have plenty of experiene with.
It has explosive bottom end and tops out at about 32,000 Rpm's...
Not the most top end in history, but it is one of the best engines in history.
If you need more speed in a P5, simply gear up one tooth on the bell. the p5 can handle it, and that would equall a plus-4 in the power curve department.
The p5 has a new 2010 version with several features that set it apart from other similarly priced engines. It's on A Main for 250 dollars, not bad for a high end engine. It used to be about 280 back in the day so it's nice to see the price drop a bit over time while improvements are made.
The crank has been opened up a bit, and that has to be a good thing....
The head has been reinforced on the top fin and lowered and drilled out, and includes an o-ring sealed head, to reduce vibrations, button in turbo style.
The case has been annodized black to match the other Nova engines, and the case has been slightly changed internally to improve fuel delievery.
The carburator is the newer design with the better, longer, low end needle, and the idle screw is now on the top side for easier tuning. and comes with a 12 dollar Nova glowplug and all the carb inserts you will need...
The most valued reason why the P5 has been around for so long is the dependability, and the consistency of manufacturing. Every one I've personally broken in had exaxtly the same tightness in the piston area, took the same 1 gallon to break in, and lasted from 6-10 gallons depending on how it was treated....
The other important thing about a p5 is the torque gets you up and out of turns to clear those weird jumps that are right after the turns when you don't have much run up, and has been good on gas mileage long before the efficient engines of today....From 8-10 minutes depending on you trigger finger and the climate....etc....
I say on a Mugen mbx6 for example a 13 tooth bell would work great on a tight technical small to medium sized track with a 9853ss pipe and short round header
On a larger flowing track a 14 tooth bell and 9886 or 9853 pipe will give you the top end you need while giving you plenty of bottom end, it will never go away, and still rip on the top....
So really it gives you tuning options by having so much power down low...It's like electric motors it's all in the gearing..
It likes to run at 230 in the cooler days or fall, and 250 in the hot dog days of summer, pretty consistent......
And that Blue engine that flamed was a real pain, I had one, But it was the only Novarossi engine to have that problem, one bad engine in all the years ain't so bad.....Every other one has been awesome...
Bottom line is Novarossi and Werks engines are both great Italian engines,,,
You really can't go wrong with either engine, I just have a lot of experience with Novarossi engines, and can only give that information to help in the decision process.....
So let's all try to be nice.....
No engine is perfect, and there are very few bad engines on the market....
Now the P5 I do have plenty of experiene with.
It has explosive bottom end and tops out at about 32,000 Rpm's...
Not the most top end in history, but it is one of the best engines in history.
If you need more speed in a P5, simply gear up one tooth on the bell. the p5 can handle it, and that would equall a plus-4 in the power curve department.
The p5 has a new 2010 version with several features that set it apart from other similarly priced engines. It's on A Main for 250 dollars, not bad for a high end engine. It used to be about 280 back in the day so it's nice to see the price drop a bit over time while improvements are made.
The crank has been opened up a bit, and that has to be a good thing....
The head has been reinforced on the top fin and lowered and drilled out, and includes an o-ring sealed head, to reduce vibrations, button in turbo style.
The case has been annodized black to match the other Nova engines, and the case has been slightly changed internally to improve fuel delievery.
The carburator is the newer design with the better, longer, low end needle, and the idle screw is now on the top side for easier tuning. and comes with a 12 dollar Nova glowplug and all the carb inserts you will need...
The most valued reason why the P5 has been around for so long is the dependability, and the consistency of manufacturing. Every one I've personally broken in had exaxtly the same tightness in the piston area, took the same 1 gallon to break in, and lasted from 6-10 gallons depending on how it was treated....
The other important thing about a p5 is the torque gets you up and out of turns to clear those weird jumps that are right after the turns when you don't have much run up, and has been good on gas mileage long before the efficient engines of today....From 8-10 minutes depending on you trigger finger and the climate....etc....
I say on a Mugen mbx6 for example a 13 tooth bell would work great on a tight technical small to medium sized track with a 9853ss pipe and short round header
On a larger flowing track a 14 tooth bell and 9886 or 9853 pipe will give you the top end you need while giving you plenty of bottom end, it will never go away, and still rip on the top....
So really it gives you tuning options by having so much power down low...It's like electric motors it's all in the gearing..
It likes to run at 230 in the cooler days or fall, and 250 in the hot dog days of summer, pretty consistent......
And that Blue engine that flamed was a real pain, I had one, But it was the only Novarossi engine to have that problem, one bad engine in all the years ain't so bad.....Every other one has been awesome...
Bottom line is Novarossi and Werks engines are both great Italian engines,,,
You really can't go wrong with either engine, I just have a lot of experience with Novarossi engines, and can only give that information to help in the decision process.....
So let's all try to be nice.....
No engine is perfect, and there are very few bad engines on the market....
08-10-2010, 02:07 PM
#63
Nitro engines or micro engines are [highly] disposable, like cigarette lighters... at least that's been my experience so far. You run them and then toss them once they're done, which on average [for me] is about an engine or two per year.
The P5, B5 and B6 are close enough in price, performance and popularity to choose either one without much consequence or variation. You probably could even get away with an unproven or lesser known brand if your driving, tuning, set up and luck are good enough.
I decided to chime in b/c I recently bought a Novarossi P5XLT. Matter of fact, I just got it in the mail today. I've always wanted to try one, so that's why I got it over any other brand this time around. I've had Sportswerks, Axe Rossi, OS and SH prior to this purchase and they all ended up or will end up in the garbage when the time comes, so they're all the same when you look at it that way.
If price is the issue, Amain might discount the purchase at $25.00 off. If so, the cost would be $223.99 for the P5, which is closer to the cost of the B5 or B6. Again, I don't think you could go wrong with either. Both brands are popular and proven. So do a gut check and go for it. Then let us know what's up on the track
By the way, the Novarossi comes with a glow plug, five carb inserts, dust covers and two throttle ball linkage ends.
The P5, B5 and B6 are close enough in price, performance and popularity to choose either one without much consequence or variation. You probably could even get away with an unproven or lesser known brand if your driving, tuning, set up and luck are good enough.
I decided to chime in b/c I recently bought a Novarossi P5XLT. Matter of fact, I just got it in the mail today. I've always wanted to try one, so that's why I got it over any other brand this time around. I've had Sportswerks, Axe Rossi, OS and SH prior to this purchase and they all ended up or will end up in the garbage when the time comes, so they're all the same when you look at it that way.
If price is the issue, Amain might discount the purchase at $25.00 off. If so, the cost would be $223.99 for the P5, which is closer to the cost of the B5 or B6. Again, I don't think you could go wrong with either. Both brands are popular and proven. So do a gut check and go for it. Then let us know what's up on the track
By the way, the Novarossi comes with a glow plug, five carb inserts, dust covers and two throttle ball linkage ends.
Last edited by wriffwraff; 08-12-2010 at 07:05 AM.
08-10-2010, 06:13 PM
#64
Guys thanks for all the help. Have decided on the werks motor b6 with the2057. Don't worry, i am also getting the novarossi r21bf limited for a back up and club racing. I love the purple head! So stop the fighting guys. For 360 i will have a full blown 5 port racer and an easy to tune reliable little 3 port. Both italian!! Keep up the postive info and thank you to Ron, Maximo and Houston for their professional insights.
08-10-2010, 07:43 PM
#65
Guys thanks for all the help. Have decided on the werks motor b6 with the2057. Don't worry, i am also getting the novarossi r21bf limited for a back up and club racing. I love the purple head! So stop the fighting guys. For 360 i will have a full blown 5 port racer and an easy to tune reliable little 3 port. Both italian!! Keep up the postive info and thank you to Ron, Maximo and Houston for their professional insights.
Wiregrass Nationals:
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically if my results are correct the only class at this race that our engines did not either TQ or win is Sportsman Buggy lol!
Wisconsin Nitro Series Round 4
TQ & 1st in Pro Buggy
TQ & 1st in Pro Truggy
RC Pro Canada Round 4
1st in Pro Buggy
RC Pro Great Lakes Division, overall results
1st in Pro Buggy & I believe 2nd but I have to confirm this.
1st in Pro Truggy & I believe 2nd but I also have to confirm this.
4th Annual Pro4mance Hobbies Nitro Cash Race
1st in Pro Buggy
and I'm sure that there are some others that I have overlooked but all in all I think not too bad for 2 weekends of racing for a line of engines that some will try to make you believe are "difficult to tune" and "flame out" lol. As they say when it comes to racing the results are all that matters, everything else is just talk and we all got to see a lot of that on this thread. In any case welcome aboard and thank you again for picking up one of our engines!
Regards,
Ron
08-11-2010, 12:10 AM
#66
This thread, just like all of the this engine versus that engine threads is getting out of hand. Here is my take on things, do our engines flame out? Yes, do other brands of engines flame out? Yes. Will any engine flame out if not tuned properly? Yes. So if an engine is in proper operating condition and tuned properly the moral of the story is it will not flame out, period. Novarossi makes good engines, we make good engines, OS makes good engine and so do several other companies. Any of these engines if not tuned properly or not maintained properly will not function properly and how will you see this? Probably through them flaming out lol!
I can say from personal experience and from running with Kortz, his B5 and B6 engines have never flamed out at a race. Is this because he gets some type of magical super engines that have back plates riveted on like the other brand in discussion on this thread? No, he runs box stock engines and when I send him motors I simply take a random box off the shelf and send it to him. Your favorite shop, distributor or team driver has just as much chance as getting that engine as he does because I do not take them apart before sending them to him. I do this because I use him as another way of checking to make sure that our products are operating properly. So there is no cherry picking or anything going on. So the question them becomes why does he (and the vast majority of other people) not have issues but a few random people do? It probably has a bit to do with understanding how to tune the engine properly, and I say that without knocking anyone's skills or anything else. Each brand/type of engine simply tunes differently and it just takes a little bit of time to come to terms with the differences when switching from one brand to another, that is it.
Now I'm not the one to normally start slinging dirt but I think that some of the people on here might benefit from a little history lesson. So what I will say for all of the Nova people that seem to take a liking to bashing our products is this. In all of the time that I have been involved with RC racing (10+ years) I have never, ever (let me repeat that again ever, ever, ever) seen a top pro and paid driver break a contract with an engine manufacturer and stop running their products mid contract because they could not finish a single race without flaming out..... except once. I will also add that this companies support included having representatives from the factory in Italy at these races in the US and also included a dedicated "engine tuner" from Italy that was sent to a couple of races to do nothing but tune this one drivers engine, and he stilled flamed out in the final! For those of your wondering this driver later went on to win the US Nationals and become one of the top drivers racing today. And the name of the engine company that he frankly gave up on because he could not finish a race with their motors even with Italian wonder kids tuning them started with an "n" and ended with an "ossi".
I'm not naming names as I'm not trying to drag anyone through the dirt with this because I respect that person for taking the risk of potentially harming his name to do what he thought was right for his career and his own personal success so I'm not going to go any further into this. I mention this solely so that those people that seem to be preaching from a pulpit (which I will point out is usually because they are either financially dependent on the sale of another brand of engines or have a personal vendetta against us (both of which I think is pretty obvious when you read their posts)) are brought back to reality about their supposed infallible engine brand.
For the rest as I have mentioned to the OP once before there are a ton of good brands of engines on the market available at prices that to date have been un-heard of. I would like to think that I had something to do with that and like me and my product or hate me and my products I think that all of the consumers in this hobby will ultimately benefit from the things that I have done and products that we have released especially over the last year with our B5 & B6.
As far as which engine you choose to go with, talk to people at your track & talk to people at your local shops. Find one that fits in your budget and one that you can get support for if and when you need help and pull the trigger. If it is a Nova, Werks, OS, OD, Orion, RB or whatever honestly I don't care. What I do care about is that at the end of the day you are happy with your decision and continue participating in this hobby which ultimately benefits everyone!
Regards,
Ron
I can say from personal experience and from running with Kortz, his B5 and B6 engines have never flamed out at a race. Is this because he gets some type of magical super engines that have back plates riveted on like the other brand in discussion on this thread? No, he runs box stock engines and when I send him motors I simply take a random box off the shelf and send it to him. Your favorite shop, distributor or team driver has just as much chance as getting that engine as he does because I do not take them apart before sending them to him. I do this because I use him as another way of checking to make sure that our products are operating properly. So there is no cherry picking or anything going on. So the question them becomes why does he (and the vast majority of other people) not have issues but a few random people do? It probably has a bit to do with understanding how to tune the engine properly, and I say that without knocking anyone's skills or anything else. Each brand/type of engine simply tunes differently and it just takes a little bit of time to come to terms with the differences when switching from one brand to another, that is it.
Now I'm not the one to normally start slinging dirt but I think that some of the people on here might benefit from a little history lesson. So what I will say for all of the Nova people that seem to take a liking to bashing our products is this. In all of the time that I have been involved with RC racing (10+ years) I have never, ever (let me repeat that again ever, ever, ever) seen a top pro and paid driver break a contract with an engine manufacturer and stop running their products mid contract because they could not finish a single race without flaming out..... except once. I will also add that this companies support included having representatives from the factory in Italy at these races in the US and also included a dedicated "engine tuner" from Italy that was sent to a couple of races to do nothing but tune this one drivers engine, and he stilled flamed out in the final! For those of your wondering this driver later went on to win the US Nationals and become one of the top drivers racing today. And the name of the engine company that he frankly gave up on because he could not finish a race with their motors even with Italian wonder kids tuning them started with an "n" and ended with an "ossi".
I'm not naming names as I'm not trying to drag anyone through the dirt with this because I respect that person for taking the risk of potentially harming his name to do what he thought was right for his career and his own personal success so I'm not going to go any further into this. I mention this solely so that those people that seem to be preaching from a pulpit (which I will point out is usually because they are either financially dependent on the sale of another brand of engines or have a personal vendetta against us (both of which I think is pretty obvious when you read their posts)) are brought back to reality about their supposed infallible engine brand.
For the rest as I have mentioned to the OP once before there are a ton of good brands of engines on the market available at prices that to date have been un-heard of. I would like to think that I had something to do with that and like me and my product or hate me and my products I think that all of the consumers in this hobby will ultimately benefit from the things that I have done and products that we have released especially over the last year with our B5 & B6.
As far as which engine you choose to go with, talk to people at your track & talk to people at your local shops. Find one that fits in your budget and one that you can get support for if and when you need help and pull the trigger. If it is a Nova, Werks, OS, OD, Orion, RB or whatever honestly I don't care. What I do care about is that at the end of the day you are happy with your decision and continue participating in this hobby which ultimately benefits everyone!
Regards,
Ron
I actually talked to the Scandinavien distributor of Novarossi, to sell Werks engines too. Werks are great engines at a great prize. For the time being they will wait for some new HPI engines and perhaps HUDY engines.
Ron: Do you sell Werks engines in Denmark? There are several of the B5 and B6 at the Danish Nationals.
08-11-2010, 04:46 PM
#67
Hear hear!!!
I actually talked to the Scandinavien distributor of Novarossi, to sell Werks engines too. Werks are great engines at a great prize. For the time being they will wait for some new HPI engines and perhaps HUDY engines.
Ron: Do you sell Werks engines in Denmark? There are several of the B5 and B6 at the Danish Nationals.
I actually talked to the Scandinavien distributor of Novarossi, to sell Werks engines too. Werks are great engines at a great prize. For the time being they will wait for some new HPI engines and perhaps HUDY engines.
Ron: Do you sell Werks engines in Denmark? There are several of the B5 and B6 at the Danish Nationals.
08-11-2010, 04:52 PM
#68
Please let us also know how things go from a racing stand point as I'm happy to say that just in the last 2 weekends we've gotten some great racing results including:
Wiregrass Nationals:
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically if my results are correct the only class at this race that our engines did not either TQ or win is Sportsman Buggy lol!
Wisconsin Nitro Series Round 4
TQ & 1st in Pro Buggy
TQ & 1st in Pro Truggy
RC Pro Canada Round 4
1st in Pro Buggy
RC Pro Great Lakes Division, overall results
1st in Pro Buggy & I believe 2nd but I have to confirm this.
1st in Pro Truggy & I believe 2nd but I also have to confirm this.
4th Annual Pro4mance Hobbies Nitro Cash Race
1st in Pro Buggy
and I'm sure that there are some others that I have overlooked but all in all I think not too bad for 2 weekends of racing for a line of engines that some will try to make you believe are "difficult to tune" and "flame out" lol. As they say when it comes to racing the results are all that matters, everything else is just talk and we all got to see a lot of that on this thread. In any case welcome aboard and thank you again for picking up one of our engines!
Regards,
Ron
Wiregrass Nationals:
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically if my results are correct the only class at this race that our engines did not either TQ or win is Sportsman Buggy lol!
Wisconsin Nitro Series Round 4
TQ & 1st in Pro Buggy
TQ & 1st in Pro Truggy
RC Pro Canada Round 4
1st in Pro Buggy
RC Pro Great Lakes Division, overall results
1st in Pro Buggy & I believe 2nd but I have to confirm this.
1st in Pro Truggy & I believe 2nd but I also have to confirm this.
4th Annual Pro4mance Hobbies Nitro Cash Race
1st in Pro Buggy
and I'm sure that there are some others that I have overlooked but all in all I think not too bad for 2 weekends of racing for a line of engines that some will try to make you believe are "difficult to tune" and "flame out" lol. As they say when it comes to racing the results are all that matters, everything else is just talk and we all got to see a lot of that on this thread. In any case welcome aboard and thank you again for picking up one of our engines!
Regards,
Ron
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
TQ & 1st in Sportsman Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically a Werks B5 or B6 either TQ'd or won every single nitro class at the race!
Regards,
Ron
08-11-2010, 06:11 PM
#69
This thread suddenly seams to have died off for some reason lol. We'll in any case I have to admit that I just found out today that the results that I posted about the Wiregrass race were not correct. I was just informed that one of our engines also TQ'd and took 1st place in Sportsman Buggy too! So the results should have read:
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
TQ & 1st in Sportsman Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically a Werks B5 or B6 either TQ'd or won every single nitro class at the race!
Regards,
Ron
TQ & 2nd in Pro Buggy
TQ & 2nd in Pro Truggy
1st in Open Truggy
TQ in Open Buggy
TQ & 1st in Sportsman Buggy
1st in Sportsman Truggy
So basically a Werks B5 or B6 either TQ'd or won every single nitro class at the race!
Regards,
Ron
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
#70
I love my werks engines, and I think you will also. if you do try out a novarossi look up Monty H.E.S ^^^ as he will hook you up.
08-11-2010, 07:22 PM
#71
I run Werks, Nova, and RB. Money well spent in any of these arenas.
I can't remember the last time I "flamed out" with any mill....
These little things are very easy to tune and run. Basic. The lowest members of the internal combustion food chain.
If you struggle here...well...need I say more???
I can't remember the last time I "flamed out" with any mill....
These little things are very easy to tune and run. Basic. The lowest members of the internal combustion food chain.
If you struggle here...well...need I say more???
08-11-2010, 10:27 PM
#72
I love my Werks engines. Now about half of the racers at my local track run b5's, most converts from other major brands. I have not heard a single complaint....which is kind of amazing since we complain about everything else.
Oh yea - I was going to post something about wiregrass, bbennett who won open truggy has approx 7 gallons on his b5 with all original internals.
Oh yea - I was going to post something about wiregrass, bbennett who won open truggy has approx 7 gallons on his b5 with all original internals.
08-12-2010, 05:29 AM
#73
Guys thanks for all the help. Have decided on the werks motor b6 with the2057. Don't worry, i am also getting the novarossi r21bf limited for a back up and club racing. I love the purple head! So stop the fighting guys. For 360 i will have a full blown 5 port racer and an easy to tune reliable little 3 port. Both italian!! Keep up the postive info and thank you to Ron, Maximo and Houston for their professional insights.
and Maximo incase you cant get ahold of either!!!!!
good luck racin!!
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