looking fora new buggy
11-27-2007, 03:07 PM
#32
sucks, ugly, does it really matter to you that much? its "mr. rc knowitalls" like yourself that keep this current hobby from becoming a sport, with mainstream recognition.
here is the best advice in buying a new 1/8th scale buggy:
1. BUY IT FROM YOUR LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! instead of selling out to online stores that break every MAP rule in the book and break direct rules from distributors
2. Buy what your local hobby shop supports
3. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, IF ITS CHEAPER, THERE IS A REASON, PERHAPS THIS IS MORE TRUE IN RC THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
here is the best advice in buying a new 1/8th scale buggy:
1. BUY IT FROM YOUR LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! instead of selling out to online stores that break every MAP rule in the book and break direct rules from distributors
2. Buy what your local hobby shop supports
3. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, IF ITS CHEAPER, THERE IS A REASON, PERHAPS THIS IS MORE TRUE IN RC THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
If i want a model of RC i'm not going to settle on another brand just because the LHS does not carry the one i want. Demanding that i buy something there just because thats all that you carry will be a sure way to make me never come back....
11-27-2007, 03:12 PM
#33
Tech Regular
Isn't this thread about What to buy, not How or Where to buy??
11-27-2007, 03:17 PM
#34
Tech Regular
Try out the CEN Matrix. I race it, and love it. Very durable. Most people that race the Matrix are surprised at it's durability. It is also very easy to drive and very consistant.
11-27-2007, 03:23 PM
#35
sucks, ugly, does it really matter to you that much? its "mr. rc knowitalls" like yourself that keep this current hobby from becoming a sport, with mainstream recognition.
here is the best advice in buying a new 1/8th scale buggy:
1. BUY IT FROM YOUR LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! instead of selling out to online stores that break every MAP rule in the book and break direct rules from distributors
2. Buy what your local hobby shop supports
3. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, IF ITS CHEAPER, THERE IS A REASON, PERHAPS THIS IS MORE TRUE IN RC THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
here is the best advice in buying a new 1/8th scale buggy:
1. BUY IT FROM YOUR LOCAL HOBBY SHOP! instead of selling out to online stores that break every MAP rule in the book and break direct rules from distributors
2. Buy what your local hobby shop supports
3. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR, IF ITS CHEAPER, THERE IS A REASON, PERHAPS THIS IS MORE TRUE IN RC THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
11-27-2007, 03:27 PM
#36
sorry!!!! now back on topic...
IMHO i would go with a Mugen MBX5R, cause its a very planted and easy to drive buggy, bullet proof, and parts quality is second to non...
however this maybe a bit bias, cause its what i like...however if i were not running mugen i would be running losil, but the only reason i do not make the change to losi is because of the parts quality, and it may be almost to light making the losi hard to drive in the rough stuff...
IMHO i would go with a Mugen MBX5R, cause its a very planted and easy to drive buggy, bullet proof, and parts quality is second to non...
however this maybe a bit bias, cause its what i like...however if i were not running mugen i would be running losil, but the only reason i do not make the change to losi is because of the parts quality, and it may be almost to light making the losi hard to drive in the rough stuff...
11-27-2007, 09:05 PM
#37
Tech Master
iTrader: (11)
CEN Matrix
its affordable very durable and can handle any track
PRO Kit ( Factory Race Edition)
http://www.headrushhobbies.com/estor...itro%20Buggies
RTR
http://www.headrushhobbies.com/estor...itro%20Buggies
its affordable very durable and can handle any track
PRO Kit ( Factory Race Edition)
http://www.headrushhobbies.com/estor...itro%20Buggies
RTR
http://www.headrushhobbies.com/estor...itro%20Buggies
11-28-2007, 07:30 AM
#38
I have a masters degree in business administration, and the "local hobby shop" business, is hardly a legitimate business. Imagine if Ford motor company established dealerships all over the country and world, then decided to sell ford cars and trucks wholesale at lower prices than 98% of the dealers could afford to sell them at from their headquarters and via the internet. This is EXACTLY what Tower Hobbies does. Horizon is better.
And the goal of a business is NOT to supply a demand (that's economics), the goal of a business from a financial perspective is to "meet and exceed shareholders expectations." And from a strategic management and marketing standpoint, a business must CREATE Demand, not simply attempt to supply it, especially in low profit-margin, highly competitive environments like specialty retail. The edge that a local hobby shop has is service, knowledge, access to face-to-face communications, and typically in RC a racing crowd. This is the strategic advantage that the local hobby shop owner must exploit. The problem is your biggest competitors are also your biggest allies (in the parlance of the famous genious on the subject of competition - Michael Porter, Harvard School of Business) YOUR SUPPLIERS! This is illegal in larger scale businesses like the automotive industry, it violates antitrust (anti-competition) laws.
Losi 8 buggy:
answer me this - does the center drive train wear abnormally quickly? i think the answer is yes, whatever the technical design of is and I realize the obvious fact that there is a sharp angle to facilitate moving the engine closer to the center of the chassis.
Second question - has there been a documented problem with people burning up throttle servos in the 8ight, i don't statistically significant evidence, but if you watch the forums, the answer is generally - yes. You would probably.
I know about setting the EPA and I know about the fuel tubing etc. etc., it is still possible to "mysteriously" have a throttle servo quit working in the 8, i've seen it happen more than once with more than one knowledgeable person.
If the orings under the radio tray were not a "fix", then why did losi include them in later kits with an addendum to the instructions manual?
Don't get me wrong, because of name recognition and, I'll give them credit, handling/performance characteristics, losi and now associated are likely the two most popular buggies in the US and they are making efforts abroad as well. However, IN MY OPINION, sticking with the manufacturers that have more experience in 1/8th design is the safe/conservative way to go and since Mugen is distributed by horizon and great planes, its a better option than kyosho (which are IN MY OPINION, the two long-established stallions of the 1/8th scale market).
And the goal of a business is NOT to supply a demand (that's economics), the goal of a business from a financial perspective is to "meet and exceed shareholders expectations." And from a strategic management and marketing standpoint, a business must CREATE Demand, not simply attempt to supply it, especially in low profit-margin, highly competitive environments like specialty retail. The edge that a local hobby shop has is service, knowledge, access to face-to-face communications, and typically in RC a racing crowd. This is the strategic advantage that the local hobby shop owner must exploit. The problem is your biggest competitors are also your biggest allies (in the parlance of the famous genious on the subject of competition - Michael Porter, Harvard School of Business) YOUR SUPPLIERS! This is illegal in larger scale businesses like the automotive industry, it violates antitrust (anti-competition) laws.
Losi 8 buggy:
answer me this - does the center drive train wear abnormally quickly? i think the answer is yes, whatever the technical design of is and I realize the obvious fact that there is a sharp angle to facilitate moving the engine closer to the center of the chassis.
Second question - has there been a documented problem with people burning up throttle servos in the 8ight, i don't statistically significant evidence, but if you watch the forums, the answer is generally - yes. You would probably.
I know about setting the EPA and I know about the fuel tubing etc. etc., it is still possible to "mysteriously" have a throttle servo quit working in the 8, i've seen it happen more than once with more than one knowledgeable person.
If the orings under the radio tray were not a "fix", then why did losi include them in later kits with an addendum to the instructions manual?
Don't get me wrong, because of name recognition and, I'll give them credit, handling/performance characteristics, losi and now associated are likely the two most popular buggies in the US and they are making efforts abroad as well. However, IN MY OPINION, sticking with the manufacturers that have more experience in 1/8th design is the safe/conservative way to go and since Mugen is distributed by horizon and great planes, its a better option than kyosho (which are IN MY OPINION, the two long-established stallions of the 1/8th scale market).
11-28-2007, 07:30 AM
#39
I have a masters degree in business administration, and the "local hobby shop" business, is hardly a legitimate business. Imagine if Ford motor company established dealerships all over the country and world, then decided to sell ford cars and trucks wholesale at lower prices than 98% of the dealers could afford to sell them at from their headquarters and via the internet. This is EXACTLY what Tower Hobbies does. Horizon is better.
And the goal of a business is NOT to supply a demand (that's economics), the goal of a business from a financial perspective is to "meet and exceed shareholders expectations." And from a strategic management and marketing standpoint, a business must CREATE Demand, not simply attempt to supply it, especially in low profit-margin, highly competitive environments like specialty retail. The edge that a local hobby shop has is service, knowledge, access to face-to-face communications, and typically in RC a racing crowd. This is the strategic advantage that the local hobby shop owner must exploit. The problem is your biggest competitors are also your biggest allies (in the parlance of the famous genious on the subject of competition - Michael Porter, Harvard School of Business) YOUR SUPPLIERS! This is illegal in larger scale businesses like the automotive industry, it violates antitrust (anti-competition) laws.
Losi 8 buggy:
answer me this - does the center drive train wear abnormally quickly? i think the answer is yes, whatever the technical design of is and I realize the obvious fact that there is a sharp angle to facilitate moving the engine closer to the center of the chassis.
Second question - has there been a documented problem with people burning up throttle servos in the 8ight, i don't statistically significant evidence, but if you watch the forums, the answer is generally - yes. You would probably.
I know about setting the EPA and I know about the fuel tubing etc. etc., it is still possible to "mysteriously" have a throttle servo quit working in the 8, i've seen it happen more than once with more than one knowledgeable person.
If the orings under the radio tray were not a "fix", then why did losi include them in later kits with an addendum to the instructions manual?
Don't get me wrong, because of name recognition and, I'll give them credit, handling/performance characteristics, losi and now associated are likely the two most popular buggies in the US and they are making efforts abroad as well. However, IN MY OPINION, sticking with the manufacturers that have more experience in 1/8th design is the safe/conservative way to go and since Mugen is distributed by horizon and great planes, its a better option than kyosho (which are IN MY OPINION, the two long-established stallions of the 1/8th scale market).
And the goal of a business is NOT to supply a demand (that's economics), the goal of a business from a financial perspective is to "meet and exceed shareholders expectations." And from a strategic management and marketing standpoint, a business must CREATE Demand, not simply attempt to supply it, especially in low profit-margin, highly competitive environments like specialty retail. The edge that a local hobby shop has is service, knowledge, access to face-to-face communications, and typically in RC a racing crowd. This is the strategic advantage that the local hobby shop owner must exploit. The problem is your biggest competitors are also your biggest allies (in the parlance of the famous genious on the subject of competition - Michael Porter, Harvard School of Business) YOUR SUPPLIERS! This is illegal in larger scale businesses like the automotive industry, it violates antitrust (anti-competition) laws.
Losi 8 buggy:
answer me this - does the center drive train wear abnormally quickly? i think the answer is yes, whatever the technical design of is and I realize the obvious fact that there is a sharp angle to facilitate moving the engine closer to the center of the chassis.
Second question - has there been a documented problem with people burning up throttle servos in the 8ight, i don't statistically significant evidence, but if you watch the forums, the answer is generally - yes. You would probably.
I know about setting the EPA and I know about the fuel tubing etc. etc., it is still possible to "mysteriously" have a throttle servo quit working in the 8, i've seen it happen more than once with more than one knowledgeable person.
If the orings under the radio tray were not a "fix", then why did losi include them in later kits with an addendum to the instructions manual?
Don't get me wrong, because of name recognition and, I'll give them credit, handling/performance characteristics, losi and now associated are likely the two most popular buggies in the US and they are making efforts abroad as well. However, IN MY OPINION, sticking with the manufacturers that have more experience in 1/8th design is the safe/conservative way to go and since Mugen is distributed by horizon and great planes, its a better option than kyosho (which are IN MY OPINION, the two long-established stallions of the 1/8th scale market).
11-28-2007, 07:31 AM
#40
I forgot about CEN, I've never seen one or driven one, but the top of the line CEN buggy does look pretty sweet in the pictures.
11-28-2007, 07:38 AM
#41
yep this is why i DO NOT shop at my LHS!!!!!! im not gonna have a shop owner dictate to me what im should and should not be running cause of his bias opinions...besides mugen im not to interested in anything else, and the funny thing is my LHS says mugen is junk...and to buy crap like the ofna 9.5 and low end rtr's like that, cause thats what they carry...no wonder why i call them hobby clown!!!!!
sorry, your local hobby shop owner sounds uninformed. there is probably a financial reason he bashes mugen (or at least a perceived financial reason). The profit margin on ofna stuff is a little better than mugen, but not much. Generally that is the case in the local hobby shop business. The less expensive, lower quality stuff has a higher profit margin. Now the catch is, if you push that stuff, you are likely to have un-satisified customers, so is the profit margin really higher, in the long run, if you take into account the financial impact of customer satisfaction????
Sorry to hear you local hobby shop has not satisified you. I don't really "push" any one brand when I'm in the shop, even though in the 1/8th scale world, which is mostly what i run, I am a hands down mugen FAN - personal opinion. I generally try to ascertain a person's level of income, committment to racing vs. bashing, and if they have at least some experience with racing, i try to get a feel for their driving style, then recommed at least two, mostly three buggies to choose from. Then I give them my OPINION, and i stress that it is my OPINION, regarding my experience with owning the buggies that I recommended. Then I usually give them some free RC Car Action Mags or Extreme RC mags to read other people's opinions too.
sorry, your local hobby shop owner sounds uninformed. there is probably a financial reason he bashes mugen (or at least a perceived financial reason). The profit margin on ofna stuff is a little better than mugen, but not much. Generally that is the case in the local hobby shop business. The less expensive, lower quality stuff has a higher profit margin. Now the catch is, if you push that stuff, you are likely to have un-satisified customers, so is the profit margin really higher, in the long run, if you take into account the financial impact of customer satisfaction????
Sorry to hear you local hobby shop has not satisified you. I don't really "push" any one brand when I'm in the shop, even though in the 1/8th scale world, which is mostly what i run, I am a hands down mugen FAN - personal opinion. I generally try to ascertain a person's level of income, committment to racing vs. bashing, and if they have at least some experience with racing, i try to get a feel for their driving style, then recommed at least two, mostly three buggies to choose from. Then I give them my OPINION, and i stress that it is my OPINION, regarding my experience with owning the buggies that I recommended. Then I usually give them some free RC Car Action Mags or Extreme RC mags to read other people's opinions too.
11-28-2007, 07:44 AM
#42
you're right it is about what to buy, not how or where. That was just a shameless plug for LHS's everywhere 
Most importantly support RC racing with the $$ you have available, race clean, race professionally and work to grow rc from a "hobby" to a legitimate "sport" lawnmower racing is on ESPN, why not rc. Because a PA annoucer yelling for marshals and breaking up fights over petty crap is not good TV!
final post - IN MY OPINION, the mugen mbx5r is the most consistent buggy to drive week in and week out, it has the best parts quality, it is distributed by both horizon and great plans so parts availability should be very good, it is well-engineered, and they company has a great new logo coming out!
Also, this is a great article (maybe just because mugen won, i don't know) but these guys did a nice job of QUANTIFYING their opinions vs. using qualitiative terms.
http://www.rc-car.com/ME2/dirmod.asp...C42CA09BC6D9AD
Most importantly support RC racing with the $$ you have available, race clean, race professionally and work to grow rc from a "hobby" to a legitimate "sport" lawnmower racing is on ESPN, why not rc. Because a PA annoucer yelling for marshals and breaking up fights over petty crap is not good TV!
final post - IN MY OPINION, the mugen mbx5r is the most consistent buggy to drive week in and week out, it has the best parts quality, it is distributed by both horizon and great plans so parts availability should be very good, it is well-engineered, and they company has a great new logo coming out!
Also, this is a great article (maybe just because mugen won, i don't know) but these guys did a nice job of QUANTIFYING their opinions vs. using qualitiative terms.
http://www.rc-car.com/ME2/dirmod.asp...C42CA09BC6D9AD
11-28-2007, 07:50 AM
#43
here is a quote from the RC tech Mugen MBX5R forum:
"me and my buddy who races an 8 did our winter put away clean up together. my parts wear in my drive line after a whole season was less than his after 2 weekends (he replaced the front drive shaft) and all of his plastic had alot more wear (mine ran a month longer at the begining of the season his ran 2 weekends after i quit for the year) mine still doesnt have pin slop or suspension wiggle not even close and another thing he discovered was his chassis was twisted lol. i have gone through 20 bucks in clutch shoes, 4 in shock ends and 15 in new rear a arms (they werent broken but were slightly tweaked) oh and 4 bucks for a cvd pin i forgot to tighten up lol i went threw a set of shock boots only to go with schock socks as well. the R doesnt really need hop ups to be competitive. i lightened mine but to be honest i cant say it actually made the car faster as to the thing that really matters...the track clock lol. my friend has spent more in center diff cases and drive train parts than i have on any up keep/broken parts and a chassis and all new plastic he has me blown away, 3 sets of clutch shoes, aluminum chassis braces and so forth he has spent more on total cost too. he is faster than me however but he was even more so when he had a prospec lol"
Check out that forum under nitro offroad, very good.
"me and my buddy who races an 8 did our winter put away clean up together. my parts wear in my drive line after a whole season was less than his after 2 weekends (he replaced the front drive shaft) and all of his plastic had alot more wear (mine ran a month longer at the begining of the season his ran 2 weekends after i quit for the year) mine still doesnt have pin slop or suspension wiggle not even close and another thing he discovered was his chassis was twisted lol. i have gone through 20 bucks in clutch shoes, 4 in shock ends and 15 in new rear a arms (they werent broken but were slightly tweaked) oh and 4 bucks for a cvd pin i forgot to tighten up lol i went threw a set of shock boots only to go with schock socks as well. the R doesnt really need hop ups to be competitive. i lightened mine but to be honest i cant say it actually made the car faster as to the thing that really matters...the track clock lol. my friend has spent more in center diff cases and drive train parts than i have on any up keep/broken parts and a chassis and all new plastic he has me blown away, 3 sets of clutch shoes, aluminum chassis braces and so forth he has spent more on total cost too. he is faster than me however but he was even more so when he had a prospec lol"
Check out that forum under nitro offroad, very good.
11-28-2007, 11:05 AM
#44
Tech Regular
Our LHS (Local Hobby Shop) Dealers sell the majority of our Matrix Buggies and Truggies to racers that fit the following categories:
Beginner, Novice, Intermediate, Sportsman,
This demographic fits the Matrix cars very well, due to the durability, cost, and ease of use. The car really does handle very well and is easy to set up.
Of course there are expert / pro drivers racing the Matrix as well.
Because CEN Racing manufactures all of their own product, they are able to offer their dealers a higher profit margin, WITHOUT jepordizing the quality of the product.
As thewholeyearinn stated, generally cheaper product is cheaper for a reason. This is not the case with CEN. Being a new company, CEN has grown into a well known brand that offers quality products at an affordable price.
Beginner, Novice, Intermediate, Sportsman,
This demographic fits the Matrix cars very well, due to the durability, cost, and ease of use. The car really does handle very well and is easy to set up.
Of course there are expert / pro drivers racing the Matrix as well.
Because CEN Racing manufactures all of their own product, they are able to offer their dealers a higher profit margin, WITHOUT jepordizing the quality of the product.
As thewholeyearinn stated, generally cheaper product is cheaper for a reason. This is not the case with CEN. Being a new company, CEN has grown into a well known brand that offers quality products at an affordable price.
11-28-2007, 02:43 PM
#45
thewholeyearin,
I agree with most everything you are saying here. In my earlier "econ 101 post", I started to write about the fact that a good business actually 'creates' a demand - I.e. Apple's Ipod, but I didn't, as it seemed like it might dillute my point.
At a high or basic level, businesses provide services - I.e. an obvious one is supplying a market demand.
I'd add that exploited entities allow themselves to be exploited to some degree. I don't know the solution to this, but I'd imagine one option would be for LHS band together to negotiate with US distributors or foriegn suppliers and hold them accountable to agreements, otherwise they need to adjust their business models to include additional, more profitable channels, such as an online storefront (Probably the same margins, but usually a lot lower overhead if built and maintained correctly).
This is largely due to a failure of the organizers, and/or lack of a active and strong governing body...
I take it you've not seen, Orange County Choppers on Discovery Channel or other 'Reality' TV Series! Fights over petty crap may not be 'good' TV, but it does get high ratings! LOL
Now, I feel, we're getting somewhere with the dialogue! Tis' good! Sure we sort of hijacked the post topic a little, but it is all loosely related to helping someone make a purchasing decision, so I don't feel so bad about it.
Good stuff!
And the goal of a business is NOT to supply a demand (that's economics), the goal of a business from a financial perspective is to "meet and exceed shareholders expectations." And from a strategic management and marketing standpoint, a business must CREATE Demand, not simply attempt to supply it, especially in low profit-margin, highly competitive environments like specialty retail. The edge that a local hobby shop has is service, knowledge, access to face-to-face communications, and typically in RC a racing crowd. This is the strategic advantage that the local hobby shop owner must exploit. The problem is your biggest competitors are also your biggest allies (in the parlance of the famous genious on the subject of competition - Michael Porter, Harvard School of Business) YOUR SUPPLIERS! This is illegal in larger scale businesses like the automotive industry, it violates antitrust (anti-competition) laws.
At a high or basic level, businesses provide services - I.e. an obvious one is supplying a market demand.
I'd add that exploited entities allow themselves to be exploited to some degree. I don't know the solution to this, but I'd imagine one option would be for LHS band together to negotiate with US distributors or foriegn suppliers and hold them accountable to agreements, otherwise they need to adjust their business models to include additional, more profitable channels, such as an online storefront (Probably the same margins, but usually a lot lower overhead if built and maintained correctly).
Most importantly support RC racing with the $$ you have available, race clean, race professionally and work to grow rc from a "hobby" to a legitimate "sport" lawnmower racing is on ESPN, why not rc. Because a PA annoucer yelling for marshals and breaking up fights over petty crap is not good TV!
I take it you've not seen, Orange County Choppers on Discovery Channel or other 'Reality' TV Series! Fights over petty crap may not be 'good' TV, but it does get high ratings! LOL
Now, I feel, we're getting somewhere with the dialogue! Tis' good! Sure we sort of hijacked the post topic a little, but it is all loosely related to helping someone make a purchasing decision, so I don't feel so bad about it.
Good stuff!