7LikesSavage Flux HP Thread
04-18-2009, 04:45 AM
#46
Tech Addict
Thread Starter
Whoa! that is a lot of questions. But I understand your situation. You want to weigh all things before putting down your hard earned money. I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge. this are my OWN opinion and suggestions based on my OWN personal experience.
1. I'll let battery experts to post more answers on that questions.
But basically, NiMh are more robust and can be used till your truck is no longer running and charge them to almost no ill effect (still, they don't recommend you draining the battery that far). But with LiPos, NO overdischarging to their minimum 2.8v per cell. If you go below that...the LiPo itself is already useless and should be diffused and thrown out. NiMh power (punch) is at the first few minutes of their run time and it will die down till you finish the pack. The last 5 to 10 minutes or so are no loner enjoyable. With LiPos, the voltage is constant and you will benefit the full voltage it can produce until the cut-off kicks in (you set your own cut-off. It is recommended not to be less than 3.2v/cell). In fact, if you see a sign of performance drop on LiPos, your cut-off might not have kicked in and you already gone below the minimum voltage it needs (2.8v/cell).
2. You like LOOOONNNGGG runtimes? Lets see. I use 2 - SMC 24C 7.2v 5200mah...so that is 4S. My own personal experience (clocked) with my last bashing session in a BMX track - I started running the truck at 12:40pm and my voltage cut-off kicks in at 1:22pm. That is 42minutes of bashing time. How you play will dictate how much your battery runtime last. So, the more higher the capacity, the longer you will enjoy runnning.
3. Good for you. Lately, chargers are almost mandatory on all new available chargers. I read in the traxxas boards that the onyx has the right feautures for the right price. It is already AC/DC , so no need for seperate power supply:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXTCK1&P=ML
If you want dual battery charging:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/32897
I use 2 - ICE chargers on my LiPos.
4. People do report shredding their diffs. that is true. But personally, I still have to try harder, cause mine is holding up. I don't mind changing broken parts, as long as I enjoy the truck for some time before it breaks.
I "read" that most of those who breaks stuff are those who run with 6S power. That is 22.2v of raw energy..now that is brutal! Also, they shred because they run on asphalt more than dirt. The extra grip on hard surface can take it's toll. Not only on the driveline, but also on that poor lexan body/ I run mine on an offroad track. So, the extra energy of the wheel spin is transferred on the dirt rather than in the driveline.
Again, people with Flux report of broken parts. But then again, which RC vehicle doesn't?
5. YES! LiPos are dangerous. The more you know how dangerous LiPos are the more you are careful when handling them. For me, it is better to be paranoid than being careless. You must use the right charger with the exact settings. LiPo sack are a MUST! You must be present when charging them and always check their voltage each and after use. Balancing is also needed.
6. My Flux is all stock. The only thing I will suggest is getting a velcro strap to re-inforce the battery flaps. Some users reported that they open on hard bashing and your batery with fly out. You don't want that to happen. Oh, one more thing, extra spare body
.
7. Initial cost will really set you back, but they last a very long time, most especially if well taken care off.
Try checking this site. I read on traxxas boards, it is their favorite on-line shop when it comes to affordable LiPOs, check out the chargers as well.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_index.asp
BTW. It is recommended that your LiPos must have at least a 25C rating. the higher the better. You don't want to underpower the powerful brushless system.
For additonal info. This FAQ from Traxxas is really straight to the point. Try to read all about the Lipo section on page 2. Very easy to understand.
http://monster.traxxas.com/showthrea...=430233&page=2
All in all. You buy the truck that will make you happy and satisfied. Researching is a good step. Check more info and feedback with the HPI 5T. For sure it is also an awesome truck.
Good luck.
1. I'll let battery experts to post more answers on that questions.
But basically, NiMh are more robust and can be used till your truck is no longer running and charge them to almost no ill effect (still, they don't recommend you draining the battery that far). But with LiPos, NO overdischarging to their minimum 2.8v per cell. If you go below that...the LiPo itself is already useless and should be diffused and thrown out. NiMh power (punch) is at the first few minutes of their run time and it will die down till you finish the pack. The last 5 to 10 minutes or so are no loner enjoyable. With LiPos, the voltage is constant and you will benefit the full voltage it can produce until the cut-off kicks in (you set your own cut-off. It is recommended not to be less than 3.2v/cell). In fact, if you see a sign of performance drop on LiPos, your cut-off might not have kicked in and you already gone below the minimum voltage it needs (2.8v/cell).
2. You like LOOOONNNGGG runtimes? Lets see. I use 2 - SMC 24C 7.2v 5200mah...so that is 4S. My own personal experience (clocked) with my last bashing session in a BMX track - I started running the truck at 12:40pm and my voltage cut-off kicks in at 1:22pm. That is 42minutes of bashing time. How you play will dictate how much your battery runtime last. So, the more higher the capacity, the longer you will enjoy runnning.
3. Good for you. Lately, chargers are almost mandatory on all new available chargers. I read in the traxxas boards that the onyx has the right feautures for the right price. It is already AC/DC , so no need for seperate power supply:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXTCK1&P=ML
If you want dual battery charging:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/32897
I use 2 - ICE chargers on my LiPos.
4. People do report shredding their diffs. that is true. But personally, I still have to try harder, cause mine is holding up. I don't mind changing broken parts, as long as I enjoy the truck for some time before it breaks.
I "read" that most of those who breaks stuff are those who run with 6S power. That is 22.2v of raw energy..now that is brutal! Also, they shred because they run on asphalt more than dirt. The extra grip on hard surface can take it's toll. Not only on the driveline, but also on that poor lexan body/ I run mine on an offroad track. So, the extra energy of the wheel spin is transferred on the dirt rather than in the driveline.
Again, people with Flux report of broken parts. But then again, which RC vehicle doesn't?
5. YES! LiPos are dangerous. The more you know how dangerous LiPos are the more you are careful when handling them. For me, it is better to be paranoid than being careless. You must use the right charger with the exact settings. LiPo sack are a MUST! You must be present when charging them and always check their voltage each and after use. Balancing is also needed.
6. My Flux is all stock. The only thing I will suggest is getting a velcro strap to re-inforce the battery flaps. Some users reported that they open on hard bashing and your batery with fly out. You don't want that to happen. Oh, one more thing, extra spare body
.7. Initial cost will really set you back, but they last a very long time, most especially if well taken care off.
Try checking this site. I read on traxxas boards, it is their favorite on-line shop when it comes to affordable LiPOs, check out the chargers as well.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_index.asp
BTW. It is recommended that your LiPos must have at least a 25C rating. the higher the better. You don't want to underpower the powerful brushless system.
For additonal info. This FAQ from Traxxas is really straight to the point. Try to read all about the Lipo section on page 2. Very easy to understand.
http://monster.traxxas.com/showthrea...=430233&page=2
All in all. You buy the truck that will make you happy and satisfied. Researching is a good step. Check more info and feedback with the HPI 5T. For sure it is also an awesome truck.
Good luck.
04-18-2009, 01:16 PM
#47
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
I can't believe this, but the more and more I watch that Savage Flux in action in video's, the more I just wanna ditch the whole Baja 5T idea iv'e had. I had a Revo 3.3 two years ago that I simply got burnt out and fustrated with constantly fiddling/tweaking and fixing the damn thing rather then having fun. The 5T sound likes its less of a pain, but man, I look at those exploded views and it just looks like theres just as much that can go wrong!
Arrrrrrghhhh I'd just like the idea of very little maintenance with these new brushless setups, I got so burnt out from my Revo 3.3 the even though I know the Baja's arn't as picky, I"m just worried about plunking down $1200 only to get fustrated working/tweaking with it. The Flux is just so farking fast and versatile in almost all driving conditions and can bash and take punishment that I know the Baja can only dream about.
I just wanna have a freaking fun playing with R/C again. True, the Flux doesn't have the "noise" or "cool" factor that gas does to attract a crowd, but I just wanna have fun and bash all over, especially if my friend gets an E-Maxx for himself
I have some questions as I'm very behind the electric technology as my last electric car was a 1994-95 Team Los XXT stadium truck or something
1. Exactly what are the benefits and minuses of LiPo's vs Nimh?
2. I DEMAND long run times, 10-15 minutes isn't going to cut it if I go electric. What Lipo setup can I do so I can maximize run time? I like speed and power, but I will sacrifice some for run length. What batteries would be able to accomplish this without costing my soul?
3. What charger would be a good choice that won't cost me a farking arm and leg? Are their any that can charge 2 batteries at the same time as the Flux needs 2 to run? This would save on downtime and up playtime
4. I've been hearing horror stories about the Fluxs transmission and Diffs not being able to handle the punishment of the brushless motor? Whats the current scoop on this?
5. Are LiPo's that much more dangerous? They seem freaking scary in comparison to NiMH as far as hazards and it sounds like they need constant babying. Correct the myths if Im wrong
6. Is there anything in the stock Flux that NEEDS to be replaced/upgraded immediatly?
7. How long can I expect LiPo' batteries to last? They better last for years if they farking cost $100+! That could buy me ALOT of gas for Baja 5T
Links and articles about Lipo's and product suggestions would be greatly apprecited. I really wanna get back into the R/C world, but i'm just stuck between the awesomeness of the 5T and the sure fun and less maintenence of this new brushless world in the Savage Flux.
Arrrrrrghhhh I'd just like the idea of very little maintenance with these new brushless setups, I got so burnt out from my Revo 3.3 the even though I know the Baja's arn't as picky, I"m just worried about plunking down $1200 only to get fustrated working/tweaking with it. The Flux is just so farking fast and versatile in almost all driving conditions and can bash and take punishment that I know the Baja can only dream about.
I just wanna have a freaking fun playing with R/C again. True, the Flux doesn't have the "noise" or "cool" factor that gas does to attract a crowd, but I just wanna have fun and bash all over, especially if my friend gets an E-Maxx for himself
I have some questions as I'm very behind the electric technology as my last electric car was a 1994-95 Team Los XXT stadium truck or something
1. Exactly what are the benefits and minuses of LiPo's vs Nimh?
2. I DEMAND long run times, 10-15 minutes isn't going to cut it if I go electric. What Lipo setup can I do so I can maximize run time? I like speed and power, but I will sacrifice some for run length. What batteries would be able to accomplish this without costing my soul?
3. What charger would be a good choice that won't cost me a farking arm and leg? Are their any that can charge 2 batteries at the same time as the Flux needs 2 to run? This would save on downtime and up playtime
4. I've been hearing horror stories about the Fluxs transmission and Diffs not being able to handle the punishment of the brushless motor? Whats the current scoop on this?
5. Are LiPo's that much more dangerous? They seem freaking scary in comparison to NiMH as far as hazards and it sounds like they need constant babying. Correct the myths if Im wrong
6. Is there anything in the stock Flux that NEEDS to be replaced/upgraded immediatly?
7. How long can I expect LiPo' batteries to last? They better last for years if they farking cost $100+! That could buy me ALOT of gas for Baja 5T
Links and articles about Lipo's and product suggestions would be greatly apprecited. I really wanna get back into the R/C world, but i'm just stuck between the awesomeness of the 5T and the sure fun and less maintenence of this new brushless world in the Savage Flux.
04-18-2009, 02:46 PM
#48
NiMh vs lipo - you're only supposed to rechgarge NiMh once or twice a day and only after its cooled down from running. You don't worry about that with lipo - unlimited charges daily, as many as you can. Lipo is less robust from a packaging viewpoint than metal encased NiMHs. You have to properly restrain them so they don't fly out of the batt compartment or even move around. You get everything you need for moderate bashing with the Flux - straps are needed if you're going to be doing big air.
Lipo is not dangerous if treated properly. There are a lot of urban fairy tales about fires and explosions - some are true, but most came from way early on in lipo development and they are way safer today than then. Some were due to chargers that were not made for lipo charging, some were in air planes and due to crashes where lipo was punctured on impact. Some were morons who hooked up charger and went off somewhere to return hrs later to witness fire dept putting the fire out at their house. There has been a lot of utube vids made showing the effects of a lipo going off, but these are deliberate and typically charge the lipo at way over recommended charge rates at high voltage to deliberately make them go off. I guess you've never been around a NiMH whern one explodes or vents - they can be more dangerous (flying metal sharapnel) than a lipo.
Lipos have to be cared for correctly - they need special charger that has the lipo charging protocol - CV/CC. Lipos can be damaged and or ruined by either over or under discharging. With proper charger, you will not overcharge one as long as you charge it with a proper charger as a lipo. With the Flux, the esc has a low voltage cutoff that protects you from overdischarging. It is set from factory to provide minimum protection at 3v/cell. It takes a Castle link to revise or adjust that, mine is at 6.4v just for a little extra safety margin. That protects lipo from overdischarging.
I have been running lipo in 18th scale for 4yrs and I have a few that are that old. You should be able to take a quality lipo and run it once or twice a day for at least a year. Like anything, there are cheap low quality lipos and expensive higher quality lipos. There is a connection bewteen price and how much abuse a lipo will tolerate - abuse being running to the lvc everytime out and charging at 2C or higher charge rates. Lower priced, lower quality lipos will take a lot less in the way of abuse that higher quality ones will. A low quaility lipo will puff before a higher quality lipo.
Only diff probs I've seen are running 6S and jumping - big air type jumps, not the little stuff. Landing with throttle on will tear up diffs in just about anything. These are the toughest factory diffs I've ever had; only my UE diffs have been better and those you had to build yourself (kit). I have yet to read, see or hear about a trans prob in a Flux and I'm on many forums.
Maybe you'd be better off with a Baja. You're going to learn none of these are 100% bullet proof, that just doesn't exist out of the box, even with a Baja. I've had my Flux for couple months and haven't done anything except charge batts and run it. Not a single adjustment, haven't had to take anything apart or fix anything. Just run it and clean it up.
Expensive ?? Its a $550 truck with every drivetrain upgrade HPI makes and a $289 brushless setup instead of a $150 nitro engine. Its all assembled, de-bugged and fully ready to run. Its a big bite, but nothing compared to the bite it takes to buy a Baja.
Lipo is not dangerous if treated properly. There are a lot of urban fairy tales about fires and explosions - some are true, but most came from way early on in lipo development and they are way safer today than then. Some were due to chargers that were not made for lipo charging, some were in air planes and due to crashes where lipo was punctured on impact. Some were morons who hooked up charger and went off somewhere to return hrs later to witness fire dept putting the fire out at their house. There has been a lot of utube vids made showing the effects of a lipo going off, but these are deliberate and typically charge the lipo at way over recommended charge rates at high voltage to deliberately make them go off. I guess you've never been around a NiMH whern one explodes or vents - they can be more dangerous (flying metal sharapnel) than a lipo.
Lipos have to be cared for correctly - they need special charger that has the lipo charging protocol - CV/CC. Lipos can be damaged and or ruined by either over or under discharging. With proper charger, you will not overcharge one as long as you charge it with a proper charger as a lipo. With the Flux, the esc has a low voltage cutoff that protects you from overdischarging. It is set from factory to provide minimum protection at 3v/cell. It takes a Castle link to revise or adjust that, mine is at 6.4v just for a little extra safety margin. That protects lipo from overdischarging.
I have been running lipo in 18th scale for 4yrs and I have a few that are that old. You should be able to take a quality lipo and run it once or twice a day for at least a year. Like anything, there are cheap low quality lipos and expensive higher quality lipos. There is a connection bewteen price and how much abuse a lipo will tolerate - abuse being running to the lvc everytime out and charging at 2C or higher charge rates. Lower priced, lower quality lipos will take a lot less in the way of abuse that higher quality ones will. A low quaility lipo will puff before a higher quality lipo.
Only diff probs I've seen are running 6S and jumping - big air type jumps, not the little stuff. Landing with throttle on will tear up diffs in just about anything. These are the toughest factory diffs I've ever had; only my UE diffs have been better and those you had to build yourself (kit). I have yet to read, see or hear about a trans prob in a Flux and I'm on many forums.
Maybe you'd be better off with a Baja. You're going to learn none of these are 100% bullet proof, that just doesn't exist out of the box, even with a Baja. I've had my Flux for couple months and haven't done anything except charge batts and run it. Not a single adjustment, haven't had to take anything apart or fix anything. Just run it and clean it up.
Expensive ?? Its a $550 truck with every drivetrain upgrade HPI makes and a $289 brushless setup instead of a $150 nitro engine. Its all assembled, de-bugged and fully ready to run. Its a big bite, but nothing compared to the bite it takes to buy a Baja.
04-21-2009, 10:29 AM
#49
Flux is definately awesome..
I have had my flux since the first day it came out.. and I love it!!!
The only two things I suggest out of the box are wire-tieing the bumper supports to keep the pins in front and back and velcro strapping the battery boxes closed. Other than that hold on and prepare for the toughest electric truck you will ever experience....
Here is a pic of my flux:
The only two things I suggest out of the box are wire-tieing the bumper supports to keep the pins in front and back and velcro strapping the battery boxes closed. Other than that hold on and prepare for the toughest electric truck you will ever experience....
Here is a pic of my flux:
04-21-2009, 11:48 AM
#50
Tech Addict
Thread Starter
Truly agree with your statement Savage Chick. Glad to have you around. Your lid is unique and colorful 
.
.
04-21-2009, 10:31 PM
#52
Tech Addict
Thread Starter
What batts are you using Savagechick?
As for me, 4S is a handful already.
As for me, 4S is a handful already
.
04-22-2009, 10:11 AM
#53
This afternoon (work permitting....they won't leave me alone) I should get my 1st run with 6S - I setup to run it with reversed batt boxes and a pair of NeuEnergy 3S 25C 5000mah. I had to rotate the batt boxes so the lids would fully open and allow me to insert these lipos - they are "car pacs" so they are short and thick. Fit real well once you have doors all the way open.
I got them on sale - FlyDMA flushed their NeuEnergy inventory - the pair shipped to my door were $117. A little less than half of what they normally go for.
I got them on sale - FlyDMA flushed their NeuEnergy inventory - the pair shipped to my door were $117. A little less than half of what they normally go for.
04-22-2009, 12:58 PM
#54
Tech Addict
Thread Starter
Let us know how it goes with 6S Duster. Btw, are you gonna use the optional pinion for that 6S?
04-22-2009, 07:36 PM
#56
I have both 3s and 4s 5000's and they do rock.. but would like to see it maxed out.
How are the rear diffs holding up for everyone else? So far I am good, but others in my basher group that bought the truck are burning them out quickly from all the backflipping.
04-22-2009, 09:11 PM
#57
Tech Addict
Thread Starter
No diffs problems for me so far. I am really amazed on how this truck can take a beating. Then again, I don't run on asphalt or hard concrete. Always on dirt/offroad type track. The poor body had one too many power slides already .
Duster. That is the thing. It is saying in the manual that you must put the other pinion, while what I read on the other boards (savage central, E-Savage.com and RCU) that it is not advisable to put it in. So much debate and so much "scientific and technical" words posted that my head hurts. In the end, I just keep telling myself that...I won't be using 6S anyways
. No need to worry about it, lol.
Main thing is, just check if you are too undergeared with 6S.
.Duster. That is the thing. It is saying in the manual that you must put the other pinion, while what I read on the other boards (savage central, E-Savage.com and RCU) that it is not advisable to put it in. So much debate and so much "scientific and technical" words posted that my head hurts. In the end, I just keep telling myself that...I won't be using 6S anyways
. No need to worry about it, lol.Main thing is, just check if you are too undergeared with 6S.
04-23-2009, 04:20 AM
#59
...Duster. That is the thing. It is saying in the manual that you must put the other pinion, while what I read on the other boards (savage central, E-Savage.com and RCU) that it is not advisable to put it in. So much debate and so much "scientific and technical" words posted that my head hurts. In the end, I just keep telling myself that...I won't be using 6S anyways . No need to worry about it, lol.
Main thing is, just check if you are too undergeared with 6S.
. No need to worry about it, lol.Main thing is, just check if you are too undergeared with 6S.
Diffs - anyone cruising Sav Central knows the Cen diff conversion is the diff solution, but even those break. Guy did the conversion, then broke them deliberately by holding his Flux off ground, going WOT and dropping it. That was enough after several times to break even a Cen pinion. I've not seen anyone mention if the stock diffs are shimmed and know that shimming improves their strength. That would be the 1st step I'd take, making sur ethey were shimmed to get rid of any play.
04-23-2009, 11:37 AM
#60
Decided to get a Flux and not the Baja 5T after a "problem" with gas engines and my leasing agreement. 
But after I brought it home, I can't wait to fire it up after I decide on batteries and a charger!!! LHS guys said im the FIRST one in town to purchase one, so now I don't really feel bad not getting Baja and he and several other guys are dying to see one in action! Woooo!!!
But after I brought it home, I can't wait to fire it up after I decide on batteries and a charger!!! LHS guys said im the FIRST one in town to purchase one, so now I don't really feel bad not getting Baja and he and several other guys are dying to see one in action! Woooo!!!