5LikesFastlane Raceway
07-25-2007, 06:22 PM
TCS is short for Tamiya Championship Series...a series designed around Tamiya only cars. It's completly seperate from ROAR. It has nothing to do with them. The TCS series was designed for fun and even racing. One of the classes they run is mini class. Mini is specific car...not just a class. It's a Tamiya M03 chassis..front wheel drive and simple to race and build. No other cars are allowed in this class. It happens to be the most popular class nationwide in that series. The series has regional races around the country and the finals at Tamiya USA headquarters. We are merely adopting the TCS rules for the mini class locally. Although we are not in the series...we are just running TCS rules for the mini class only. It is very strict as to what can be used and done to the cars. I have posted a comple list of the rules in the Mini KC M03 forum.
The other classes are plain and simple. Rubber stock/13.5 which allows Lipos 7.4v and NIMH cells.
The other class is Stock foam...same rules but with foam tires.
The other classes are plain and simple. Rubber stock/13.5 which allows Lipos 7.4v and NIMH cells.
The other class is Stock foam...same rules but with foam tires.
07-25-2007, 07:05 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
yes the rules are actuallly very simple
mini class= tcs rules, 3200 lipo, stock motor
rubber class= 13.5 or stock brushed motor, 2s lipo or nimh, takeoff cs27 premount tires, car weight 53 oz????
foam class= 13.5 or stock brushed motor, 2s lipo or nimh, foam tires, car weight 51 oz???
thats pretty much all thats been run in the past 4 months with some 4300 or 10.5 motors being used 6 or 7 months ago and maybe soon in the future
So far as the great AMB system deciding what class you should run in I feel that shane/randy/scott or whoever is setting up the races does a very good job of if there are enough people to make 2 heats in a class breaking the heats up by whoever is probably going to be going about the same speed that way nobody gets lapped 10 times and nobody gets held up too fast trying to qualify
I also feel the speed and "ease" (not saying they are easy to go fast with but just to drive around the track) of the mini's is what draws alot of people to them. If you are brand new into racing the mini cost 125 for a base kit or so (not 400 like a brand new top of line touring car) and with the mini the speed is more equal and "slow" that you can go out and learn to drive without getting lapped 20 times in one race
and yes i did get lapped 7 times first round last night in foam, 5 times 2nd round, and 4 times in the main but thats ok pretty much the first time i'd driven a foam car in a race, and other than maybe slightly better batteries i don't know how i could spend that much more money to get an advantage, i already have a 12.5 motor lol (its just a really fast 13.5 some think they missed a wind, i just think its better)
mini class= tcs rules, 3200 lipo, stock motor
rubber class= 13.5 or stock brushed motor, 2s lipo or nimh, takeoff cs27 premount tires, car weight 53 oz????
foam class= 13.5 or stock brushed motor, 2s lipo or nimh, foam tires, car weight 51 oz???
thats pretty much all thats been run in the past 4 months with some 4300 or 10.5 motors being used 6 or 7 months ago and maybe soon in the future
So far as the great AMB system deciding what class you should run in I feel that shane/randy/scott or whoever is setting up the races does a very good job of if there are enough people to make 2 heats in a class breaking the heats up by whoever is probably going to be going about the same speed that way nobody gets lapped 10 times and nobody gets held up too fast trying to qualify
I also feel the speed and "ease" (not saying they are easy to go fast with but just to drive around the track) of the mini's is what draws alot of people to them. If you are brand new into racing the mini cost 125 for a base kit or so (not 400 like a brand new top of line touring car) and with the mini the speed is more equal and "slow" that you can go out and learn to drive without getting lapped 20 times in one race
and yes i did get lapped 7 times first round last night in foam, 5 times 2nd round, and 4 times in the main but thats ok pretty much the first time i'd driven a foam car in a race, and other than maybe slightly better batteries i don't know how i could spend that much more money to get an advantage, i already have a 12.5 motor lol (its just a really fast 13.5 some think they missed a wind, i just think its better)
07-25-2007, 07:10 PM
All righty then - I think I'm starting to get it....
Tamiya rules are for these 'spec' type of racing things..... So, there's no place for my Mamba in the mini class or any Tamiya class.....
Do you have to have a Tamiya to run ANY class at Fasline? OR, can any brand of car work? Last time I was out there (2 years ago when things were MUCH more simple I might add!) I was able to run an Associated - I just prefer to run a good 'ole American (or as American as ANY r/c car is) or a Losi because in some mis guided sense I believe that this is as close to 'buying American' as we can get these days!
Soooo, let me make a list here and IF you guys can help me I'd like to come up with some approximate pricing.....
Let's start out with the Mini:
Brand T mini kit:
Speed control: (can I use a Tekin in this class or does it HAVE to be a Novak?)
Spec LiPo battery:
Tires:
I already have a Spektrum set up so I suppose that it's all right to use that stuff in 'spec' racing or do I have to buy a different radio so EVERYTHING is equal?
NOW, let's move onward to the BIG BOYS class.....
Let's say a TC5 (or equivilent Tamiya IF you can't run American stuff in tcs rules):
NOVAK Brushless set up:
How many extra 'rotors' should a guy have for racing this type of thing - 2? 5? Do they make a heavy duty model that doesn't have to be replaced as often?
3 sets of foam tires (I've been known to chunk them!) (do you still have to grind off most of the tire before it's usable?)
2 sets of rubber tires (in case the 'foamie boys' don't show up I guess - I've got the idea from reading here that a certain amount of 'flexability' is best if you plan to race regularly - in case the Grand Poobah changes his mind on what classes will be allowed to run or the class you are running just doesn't show!)
Do 48 pitch gears work still? I've got LOTS of them unless they require a special 'NOVAK' type of gear.
2 LiPo packs (can I use the Tanic that I already have or is there a 'special' kind of these?) (BTW, Tanic is a local company too - gotta' support the homies!)
Do you think about a $100.00 in spare parts would be enough for 'club racing' or would it just be best to buy another whole kit to ensure that I have spares?
IF you guys will help me figure this out I'll see if I can start saving money to be able to race. OR, I could sell 1 or 2 of my 1/8th scale off road cars I guess BUT I really hate to thin the herd! There's LOTS of places to race them and the rules are always the same!
Tamiya rules are for these 'spec' type of racing things..... So, there's no place for my Mamba in the mini class or any Tamiya class.....
Do you have to have a Tamiya to run ANY class at Fasline? OR, can any brand of car work? Last time I was out there (2 years ago when things were MUCH more simple I might add!) I was able to run an Associated - I just prefer to run a good 'ole American (or as American as ANY r/c car is) or a Losi because in some mis guided sense I believe that this is as close to 'buying American' as we can get these days!
Soooo, let me make a list here and IF you guys can help me I'd like to come up with some approximate pricing.....
Let's start out with the Mini:
Brand T mini kit:
Speed control: (can I use a Tekin in this class or does it HAVE to be a Novak?)
Spec LiPo battery:
Tires:
I already have a Spektrum set up so I suppose that it's all right to use that stuff in 'spec' racing or do I have to buy a different radio so EVERYTHING is equal?
NOW, let's move onward to the BIG BOYS class.....
Let's say a TC5 (or equivilent Tamiya IF you can't run American stuff in tcs rules):
NOVAK Brushless set up:
How many extra 'rotors' should a guy have for racing this type of thing - 2? 5? Do they make a heavy duty model that doesn't have to be replaced as often?
3 sets of foam tires (I've been known to chunk them!) (do you still have to grind off most of the tire before it's usable?)
2 sets of rubber tires (in case the 'foamie boys' don't show up I guess - I've got the idea from reading here that a certain amount of 'flexability' is best if you plan to race regularly - in case the Grand Poobah changes his mind on what classes will be allowed to run or the class you are running just doesn't show!)
Do 48 pitch gears work still? I've got LOTS of them unless they require a special 'NOVAK' type of gear.
2 LiPo packs (can I use the Tanic that I already have or is there a 'special' kind of these?) (BTW, Tanic is a local company too - gotta' support the homies!)
Do you think about a $100.00 in spare parts would be enough for 'club racing' or would it just be best to buy another whole kit to ensure that I have spares?
IF you guys will help me figure this out I'll see if I can start saving money to be able to race. OR, I could sell 1 or 2 of my 1/8th scale off road cars I guess BUT I really hate to thin the herd! There's LOTS of places to race them and the rules are always the same!
07-25-2007, 07:15 PM
hee heee... we posted at the same time!
BUT, in your post I noticed that you refer to CS27 or something tires? Are these a SPEC tire or can you run others? OR, are they (as in many cases with off road...) the ONLY tire that works on Blue Springs carpet? Not to say that you might have to buy a totally different type of tire IF you went to Omaha or Lincoln?
Do liners make any difference? I notice that you mention these premounts - BUT, do some of the guys have like 20 different combinations of tires/wheels/liners?
In off road, we generally have 2 types - molded and open cell - is this the case in on road to?
BUT, in your post I noticed that you refer to CS27 or something tires? Are these a SPEC tire or can you run others? OR, are they (as in many cases with off road...) the ONLY tire that works on Blue Springs carpet? Not to say that you might have to buy a totally different type of tire IF you went to Omaha or Lincoln?
Do liners make any difference? I notice that you mention these premounts - BUT, do some of the guys have like 20 different combinations of tires/wheels/liners?
In off road, we generally have 2 types - molded and open cell - is this the case in on road to?
07-25-2007, 07:28 PM
Nearly all rubber tire racing these days uses a spec tire for everybody. There are an infinite combination of one-run tires and inserts that can make rubber tire racing painful and expensive. Nearly every carpet race uses the CS27 tires. They're made by Take-Off, and the CS stands for "control spec." They offer a nice combination of performance and life. You don't -have- to use premounts, but it usually ends up being pretty easy to do so if you can. Fastlane sells them.
Other companies are trying to get in on the spec rubber tire action, like Jaco and MuchMore, so that may get more confusing in the future, but right now, it's pretty easy.
Brushless and LiPo are a big reason things are so complicated right now. It's affecting racers everywhere, not just locally. R/C racing is in a state of correction right now, and a lot of things are in flux as new technology starts to take a foothold. It actually does affect off-road as well, though perhaps to a lesser extent. Off-road has been quicker to adopt LiPo and brushless than the persnickety on-road crowd.
Lots of people are trying to cram brushless motors in 1/8 buggies, so I imagine you'll see things get more complicated there, too, before it's all fleshed out. Racing is hard, on many different fronts.
Other companies are trying to get in on the spec rubber tire action, like Jaco and MuchMore, so that may get more confusing in the future, but right now, it's pretty easy.
Brushless and LiPo are a big reason things are so complicated right now. It's affecting racers everywhere, not just locally. R/C racing is in a state of correction right now, and a lot of things are in flux as new technology starts to take a foothold. It actually does affect off-road as well, though perhaps to a lesser extent. Off-road has been quicker to adopt LiPo and brushless than the persnickety on-road crowd.
Lots of people are trying to cram brushless motors in 1/8 buggies, so I imagine you'll see things get more complicated there, too, before it's all fleshed out. Racing is hard, on many different fronts.
07-25-2007, 07:30 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
the only class the runs the tamiya TCS rules is the MINI class
any other class for touring cars you can use whatever car you want 4wd
tc3,tc4,tc5,t1,fko4,fko5,t2,corally rdx, corally phi, scythe, hpi's, anything you can find as long as its 4wd and 190mm wide.
the rules on the touring car are pretty simple most of the rules are there to mainly keep the cars moving the same realitive speed.
So far as running diffent speed controls we are open to that there have been lrp speedos out running the novak motors before but we have limited the motors to just novak because up until pretty much now/slightly into the future they were first and pretty much only motor company to produce motors that were "equivelant" to stock/19 turn motors, if new motors come out in the same speed range (the tekins that will be coming out soon) then we'll have to try and run those also and see how much speed differnce there is between the 2 and then decide what to do with motor rules (i'm sure syndrome/billy at least will buy any motor that come out to test the speed for us)
so far as spares that depends on what car you are going to run:
tc3,4 some tc5 stuff it maybe on the wall in the hobby shop or eric's got it at his store
xray t2 i more than likely have the part or 14 of the part see the for sale forum
corrally its on the wall or billy has it
foams usually i'll start mine around 58mm any taller they just don't seem to work well, they will run but they also seem to chunk out easier the taller you have them, with the super high traction we have now at the race track you don't lose a 1mm a run like you used to with foams more like 1mm or 1.5mm a night if that. there are tire trues around the track you can use, you can always use mine, or my lipo's which i have used maybe 3 run (CRASH 20 runs or more probably)
the rotor comment by smoke was probably more of a joke than anything just like old brushed motor's can some are probably stronger than others but these are so strong they don't seem to vary that much if at all
As far as zapping rotors to remagnatize them they say the zapper used to make them is about the size of a normal bed room and you could buy all the rotors they have made to date for how much it would cost to make a zapper
any other class for touring cars you can use whatever car you want 4wd
tc3,tc4,tc5,t1,fko4,fko5,t2,corally rdx, corally phi, scythe, hpi's, anything you can find as long as its 4wd and 190mm wide.
the rules on the touring car are pretty simple most of the rules are there to mainly keep the cars moving the same realitive speed.
So far as running diffent speed controls we are open to that there have been lrp speedos out running the novak motors before but we have limited the motors to just novak because up until pretty much now/slightly into the future they were first and pretty much only motor company to produce motors that were "equivelant" to stock/19 turn motors, if new motors come out in the same speed range (the tekins that will be coming out soon) then we'll have to try and run those also and see how much speed differnce there is between the 2 and then decide what to do with motor rules (i'm sure syndrome/billy at least will buy any motor that come out to test the speed for us)
so far as spares that depends on what car you are going to run:
tc3,4 some tc5 stuff it maybe on the wall in the hobby shop or eric's got it at his store
xray t2 i more than likely have the part or 14 of the part see the for sale forum
corrally its on the wall or billy has it
foams usually i'll start mine around 58mm any taller they just don't seem to work well, they will run but they also seem to chunk out easier the taller you have them, with the super high traction we have now at the race track you don't lose a 1mm a run like you used to with foams more like 1mm or 1.5mm a night if that. there are tire trues around the track you can use, you can always use mine, or my lipo's which i have used maybe 3 run (CRASH 20 runs or more probably)
the rotor comment by smoke was probably more of a joke than anything just like old brushed motor's can some are probably stronger than others but these are so strong they don't seem to vary that much if at all
As far as zapping rotors to remagnatize them they say the zapper used to make them is about the size of a normal bed room and you could buy all the rotors they have made to date for how much it would cost to make a zapper
07-25-2007, 07:46 PM
Syn: Thanks for all the help!
Actually, (not to get into a huge debate...) as an off road primarily GAS(y) racer, the brushless/LiPo thing really makes sense to me up to the point that the brushless (ie NOVAK) motors become as expensive and tempermental as their brushed counterparts..... I really haven't had any problems with this stuff and it's easy to use and you don't have to worry about turning the armature every round and that crap (or replacing the rotor IF you use NOVAK!).
I think that at some point 'large scale' electric may become more then the novelty that it is now. BUT, I think a large amount of the 'fun' that we get out of 1/8th scale off road relates to the sounds that the engines make - not sure if that can be duplicated in the electric versions - but I suppose you could put a business card agains the spokes of the Wabash wheels and it would make a noise of sorts! Seriously though, when I compare the fun (for me) of running a 1/10th scale gas truck or a 1/10th scale electric (even with a wayyyy over powered Mamba system!) - there's just NO comparison!
Soooo, I guess I'll sit down and see if I actually want to spend this kind of money to run indoors this winter - it really will take a lot for me to get going......
Actually, (not to get into a huge debate...) as an off road primarily GAS(y) racer, the brushless/LiPo thing really makes sense to me up to the point that the brushless (ie NOVAK) motors become as expensive and tempermental as their brushed counterparts..... I really haven't had any problems with this stuff and it's easy to use and you don't have to worry about turning the armature every round and that crap (or replacing the rotor IF you use NOVAK!).
I think that at some point 'large scale' electric may become more then the novelty that it is now. BUT, I think a large amount of the 'fun' that we get out of 1/8th scale off road relates to the sounds that the engines make - not sure if that can be duplicated in the electric versions - but I suppose you could put a business card agains the spokes of the Wabash wheels and it would make a noise of sorts! Seriously though, when I compare the fun (for me) of running a 1/10th scale gas truck or a 1/10th scale electric (even with a wayyyy over powered Mamba system!) - there's just NO comparison!
Soooo, I guess I'll sit down and see if I actually want to spend this kind of money to run indoors this winter - it really will take a lot for me to get going......
07-25-2007, 07:51 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
you don't have to ever replace a sinstered rotor in a novak motor
I've had mine in since they first released the sinstered rotors and its the same as when it was new
I've had mine in since they first released the sinstered rotors and its the same as when it was new
07-25-2007, 07:53 PM
MAN, either I'm a SLOW LEARNER or this is VERY confusing.....
I have a LiPo battery - it's a Tanic..... 2 cell..... 3000 or so mah (been a while since I looked at it....) BUT I can't run THAT battery in the mini class? I have to go buy ANOTHER battery to run the mini class? Why?
BUT, I CAN run my Tanic pack in a sedan class BUT can't use any of the equipment I now have - I have to go get the NOVAK stuff to be able to run in a sedan class? BUT, if Tekin releases a motor I MIGHT be able to run it? IF the powers that be approve, though..... right?
OR I can form my OWN class and hope that someone shows up to race with me?
OR if they don't, I can just go home, right?
I have a LiPo battery - it's a Tanic..... 2 cell..... 3000 or so mah (been a while since I looked at it....) BUT I can't run THAT battery in the mini class? I have to go buy ANOTHER battery to run the mini class? Why?
BUT, I CAN run my Tanic pack in a sedan class BUT can't use any of the equipment I now have - I have to go get the NOVAK stuff to be able to run in a sedan class? BUT, if Tekin releases a motor I MIGHT be able to run it? IF the powers that be approve, though..... right?
OR I can form my OWN class and hope that someone shows up to race with me?
OR if they don't, I can just go home, right?
I have a Mamba.
..SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSssssssss.!Bring any tire any car and any battery. Just don't get in front of me or pass me.
07-25-2007, 07:59 PM
Some of the brushless motors that are coming out recently have internal fans on the rotor, presumably to help with cooling. They also make a lot of noise, which some people like.
I truly think the Mini class is a nice way to get started in on-road at a very reasonable price. You might be able to get by with a single battery, too. Don't underestimate the used market. ;-)
Good luck, I hope to see you out there. You may not remember, but we exchanged emails about 7 years ago before I moved here from OKC, and was asking about racing in the area. You were very helpful back then, and I'm glad to have the chance to reciprocate.
I truly think the Mini class is a nice way to get started in on-road at a very reasonable price. You might be able to get by with a single battery, too. Don't underestimate the used market. ;-)
Good luck, I hope to see you out there. You may not remember, but we exchanged emails about 7 years ago before I moved here from OKC, and was asking about racing in the area. You were very helpful back then, and I'm glad to have the chance to reciprocate.
07-25-2007, 08:00 PM
Bill is using a 13.5 now, and makes the LiPo cars look silly on the straights. I can handle getting beat through the turns, since that's where the racing is, but getting pulled on the straights is discouraging. Since the LiPo cars all seem to be the same speed, it looks very suspiciously to be the increased voltage of NiMH making the difference. It's well-documented that they're faster in stock racing, but it's discouraging to see it first hand. Voltage means less in mod, so there's some fodder for the "mod is better" argument.
Anyway, going back to NiMH would be awful, so I'm going to experiment with dropping some weight instead.
Anthony, there's some talk of doing 10.5 in foam sedan this winter.
Anyway, going back to NiMH would be awful, so I'm going to experiment with dropping some weight instead.
Anthony, there's some talk of doing 10.5 in foam sedan this winter.
I'll be out for some of that.
07-25-2007, 08:02 PM
What are you punching those PACKS OUT TO BILLEEEEEEEE.
10 volts. I'll run a 4300 up to your 13.5. Call it open stock you Sub-c maniac.
10 volts. I'll run a 4300 up to your 13.5.
Call it open stock you Sub-c maniac.
07-25-2007, 08:13 PM
Oh, that also goes for Syndrome on the back straight too.
07-25-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm down for 10.5 this winter too. The faster motors make the gap between NiMH and LiPo less noticeable, since LiPo holds its voltage better than NiMH under load.
07-25-2007, 08:26 PM
Sorry about those nights. I should no better than to roll up on a slow poke so fast.On gaurd you swine.