FSEARA Race 3 Superior Hobbies Apr 22-23
04-28-2006, 03:40 PM
#166
Originally Posted by UCHEATULOSE
now if i was in the business of selling brushes and brushed motors i would tell you that brushless is the devil for sure.
correct me if i'm wroung ..but i was told you clip the blue wire on the sensor of a novak brushless system and thermal shutdowns are a thing of the past?
Im just saying that untill the time comes and the systems are more reliable I dont think that it should be shoved down everyones throat. Sure on here the guys who are pushing the brushless stuff are just telling one side of the happy story.
Yes you can clip that wire but if I am not mistaken its also against Roar rules to prevent fires...LOL. I know at the Novak TC race in WI all the brushless drivers voted on it because so many guys were having problems and they decided NOT to do it.
Yes brushless motors go bad just as much as brushed motors. Magnets are not usually the problem though. Its a wire getting hot and shorting, manufacturing tolerances, etc. Anytime you have mass produced products there are going to be differences in motors etc. So as soon as someone goes faster than you do you'll be out buying another 75.00 motor because you cant dyno yours to see if that is your problem or not.
I guess I am the opposite of most people...I always look for the bad side of everything!! But I will tell you that I have a brushless system on the way for when I go oval racing again.....It does make it easier to practice practice practice..... And WHEN I blow a motor up I can throw a brushed one in
EA
04-28-2006, 04:34 PM
#167
Tech Addict
Sure here the guys who are pushing the brushless stuff are just telling one side of the happy story.
So far it has been a pretty good experience for me, nothing really negative to report. Time wil tell.
Troy, I can appreciate the time and effort Izzy and Tony put into the state series. I think it sets a bad precedent to be able to make these kind of calls. There is always contact on the track and I have to believe that 99 percent of it is not intentional. If you can call it on the last lap you need to call it for every lap and position on the track, something that cannot be done. All in all though, it was a fun race to watch.
Dave
So far it has been a pretty good experience for me, nothing really negative to report. Time wil tell.
Troy, I can appreciate the time and effort Izzy and Tony put into the state series. I think it sets a bad precedent to be able to make these kind of calls. There is always contact on the track and I have to believe that 99 percent of it is not intentional. If you can call it on the last lap you need to call it for every lap and position on the track, something that cannot be done. All in all though, it was a fun race to watch.
Dave
04-28-2006, 04:51 PM
#168
It's not often that I listen to what Trinty or Ernie has to say but I do remember seeing an ad on the back of a magazine that in summary said if you think the playing field will be evened out by the brushless systems, think again. Because of tolerances, you may find yourself having to buy a new motor because there's nothing you can do to tune speed into it. Exactly how tight are those manufacturing tolerances going to be?
I for one actually enjoy a little motor maintence. For me it's part of the hobby that I enjoy. I'd have to agree, the battery will become the most important factor.
To me it's like nitro racing to some degree.....if your motor isn't quite fast enough, there's not much left to do but buy another one. That's one of the main reasons I refuse to run nitro.
Using the option class as the brushless class sounds like a great idea. That keeps the current standard classes and their points legit and allows for a larger group of racers to put this technology to the test together.
I for one actually enjoy a little motor maintence. For me it's part of the hobby that I enjoy. I'd have to agree, the battery will become the most important factor.
To me it's like nitro racing to some degree.....if your motor isn't quite fast enough, there's not much left to do but buy another one. That's one of the main reasons I refuse to run nitro.
Using the option class as the brushless class sounds like a great idea. That keeps the current standard classes and their points legit and allows for a larger group of racers to put this technology to the test together.
04-28-2006, 06:16 PM
#169
I have run my gtb brushless for 3 state races now, the first two I ran the 5.5 and it was fairly competitive, and not underpowered by any means. At the Superior race, running the 4.5 I had thermal shut downs in 2 races, and the car went out of control in reverse in another. My only finished run was when I put the 5.5 back in to get a safe run in. I emailed charlie at novak, he could not explain the reverse issue, but it appears w/ the 4.5 motor I was about 3 teeth overgeared(oops). He also told me the if you thermal you should replace the rotor as it will be more apt to thermal again. Other than that, I am glad to have made the switch. I haven't cut a motor this whole year.
04-28-2006, 11:55 PM
#170
I have to wonder what the officals were thinking in letting this happen. but Hey I place the blame on all those racers who had no objections at the drivers meeting. I see it like this he told you he was going to run it. you should have said no. and because you didn't you have nothing to b!tch about.
04-29-2006, 05:37 AM
#171
Originally Posted by davepull
I have to wonder what the officals were thinking in letting this happen. but Hey I place the blame on all those racers who had no objections at the drivers meeting. I see it like this he told you he was going to run it. you should have said no. and because you didn't you have nothing to b!tch about.
I was there and no one said anything
04-29-2006, 09:30 AM
#172
I can tell you exactly what the the thought process was. Bill has been in contact with Bob Novak, thier discussion was to see if a Stock Motor equivilent could be derived. Somthing like a 12.5 Turn Brushless = to the approximate output of a 27t stock. If an equivlent can be reached, then we can discuss how the possibility of the two running togther, to not split up a strong class, just give the racers another option. Bob Novak custom wound both a 14.5 and 12.5 turn motor so Bill can run them and get some feedback. The intent, if thier is good feedback, and the motors are close, to wind more, maybe offering it as a production motor. Bill discussed this with Izzy, and agreed, no points would be awarded for his car.
Brushless is coming, and it is only matter of time, the series has always been out front in these changes, and this is no different. I do not think we made the wrong choice in letting Bill do what he did, but it may have been the improper execution. He will not have points, and he probably "SHOULD" have been bumped to the last main. Regarding him running the car in the qualifiers, well the performance difference good or bad, was not that great of a difference. He would have been faster then, or slower then, other people on the track with or without the motor he ran.
We understand that the "test" affected a handful of people in thier results. This was not the intent all along. The true intent was trying to help shephard the future into our sport. While we thought enough information was available, hindsite is 20/20, and the discussion should have been more vocal. This goes both ways, racers need to be more vocal at the drivers meeting, this is one example of why we have a meeting. We hope that the few people that were affected can see what the intent was, and we will ensure to move on and not let this type of thing happen again.
We have to ensure this series has the highest integrity, is consistant and is the leader, on the trail to new and better racing. There was no intent on "bending" or "breaking" the rules for one racer. We are a ROAR series, and use the ROAR rules as a guidline. We started Spec tires, 19t racing and 6 minute stock (among other things). Being a vanguard series, our rules will deviate a small amount from the standard, but that is what helps us to be a leader. The leadership and the racers in the series will make good and bad descisions along the way, the true character of the series and it's racers is how we respond to them.
Now, all that being said. Bill has been in contact with Novak, and LRP. He is also contacting a couple of other manufactuers to discuss what our intents are in regard to brushless. This work may help all of us out in regards to getting some support for the series racers. We need to solicit suggestions from the racers, as to how we can try to implement the brushless tech. Maybe we run another class, maybe we drop brushless into the proposed truck class, but we NEED to try and implement something. Another Championship class, sponsored by a brushless motor builder.???
Brushless is coming, and it is only matter of time, the series has always been out front in these changes, and this is no different. I do not think we made the wrong choice in letting Bill do what he did, but it may have been the improper execution. He will not have points, and he probably "SHOULD" have been bumped to the last main. Regarding him running the car in the qualifiers, well the performance difference good or bad, was not that great of a difference. He would have been faster then, or slower then, other people on the track with or without the motor he ran.
We understand that the "test" affected a handful of people in thier results. This was not the intent all along. The true intent was trying to help shephard the future into our sport. While we thought enough information was available, hindsite is 20/20, and the discussion should have been more vocal. This goes both ways, racers need to be more vocal at the drivers meeting, this is one example of why we have a meeting. We hope that the few people that were affected can see what the intent was, and we will ensure to move on and not let this type of thing happen again.
We have to ensure this series has the highest integrity, is consistant and is the leader, on the trail to new and better racing. There was no intent on "bending" or "breaking" the rules for one racer. We are a ROAR series, and use the ROAR rules as a guidline. We started Spec tires, 19t racing and 6 minute stock (among other things). Being a vanguard series, our rules will deviate a small amount from the standard, but that is what helps us to be a leader. The leadership and the racers in the series will make good and bad descisions along the way, the true character of the series and it's racers is how we respond to them.
Now, all that being said. Bill has been in contact with Novak, and LRP. He is also contacting a couple of other manufactuers to discuss what our intents are in regard to brushless. This work may help all of us out in regards to getting some support for the series racers. We need to solicit suggestions from the racers, as to how we can try to implement the brushless tech. Maybe we run another class, maybe we drop brushless into the proposed truck class, but we NEED to try and implement something. Another Championship class, sponsored by a brushless motor builder.???
Originally Posted by davepull
I have to wonder what the officals were thinking in letting this happen.
Last edited by TimPotter; 04-30-2006 at 05:46 PM.
04-29-2006, 09:41 AM
#173
Well said Mr. Potter. It's post such as yours that will keep the internet information friendly...
05-08-2006, 02:05 PM
#176
Posted some photos on the FSEARA site... there will be many more in the next couple of days
http://www.fseara.org/gallery/v/2006/superior/
http://www.fseara.org/gallery/v/2006/superior/
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