FSEARA Race 3 Superior Hobbies Apr 22-23
04-27-2006, 08:34 AM
#152
Originally Posted by Mark Mixon
Hey, who's complaining? Just discussing after the fact. I hope we all eventually switch over. Sounds like it would even out stock class even more.
Most think it will even out stock class....It will just make it that much farther apart if its anything like the mod motors. Batteries will mean EVERYTHING!!
EA
04-27-2006, 10:26 AM
#153
Great point, EA. I was just thinking of the motor's performance aspect. As you know, "Stock" motors can have a huge degree of performance differential. I'm under the impression that brushless motors have less variability. If the motors were truly consistent, Setup and driving would be even more imperative. So, consistency in this aspect alone would, theoretically, tighten up the class even more. I guess it's funny in that Spec racing keeps popping up, but never really succeeds. The fast guys are always fast, and then there's the rest of us that supplement the trophy fund. 
04-27-2006, 10:30 AM
#154
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Its not even fair.
04-27-2006, 11:24 AM
#155
Originally Posted by Mark Mixon
Great point, EA. I was just thinking of the motor's performance aspect. As you know, "Stock" motors can have a huge degree of performance differential. I'm under the impression that brushless motors have less variability. If the motors were truly consistent, Setup and driving would be even more imperative. So, consistency in this aspect alone would, theoretically, tighten up the class even more. I guess it's funny in that Spec racing keeps popping up, but never really succeeds. The fast guys are always fast, and then there's the rest of us that supplement the trophy fund.
Bob Novak posted the dyno results from a few motors he checked at the factory and although it doesnt seem like much of a difference between the numbers he posted they are not any closer than the normal stock motor I see everyday.
I am not against brushless Technology at all. My biggest complaint is the brushless is allowed a different set of rules than brushed motors as far as cost (99.00 retail for the 4300) where as stock motors retail for 45.00.
My opinion is that if you are going to race them in the same class then the rules need to be a little more close together. Could you imagine how much more consistant a stock motor would be if the retail was 99.00? Then the manufactures could actually spend some money to have them built with better materals, labor, machines, etc.
My .02 thats probably not worth that much to most.
EA
04-27-2006, 01:00 PM
#156
Yeah, but the brushless will last the entire season. I buy at least one stock motor per State Series race. That's $40.00 x 7 races or $280. Not to mention $3 for brushes every time I run it. Total stock motor expense for the year is roughly $364. I'd love it if I only had to spend $99 on a motor. 
04-27-2006, 01:09 PM
#157
Anyone with pics yet?
I agree with Todd about the brushless testing in stock. If a faster driver was using it (ex. Cheston, LilB) then everyone would be at least two positions less than they would if they were using a regular brushed motor. But since Bill doesnt race often and isnt elligible for the points then why argue over it. But at the same time, it is against the ROAR rules. And the rules shouldnt be changed for one person. If we're going to let people go around the rules, then why cant some people run bearins in stock motors, or get around the interchanging of different manufacture motor parts. Some of those would be harder to inspect then see a huge ESC and motor for the brushless system. We just have to be consistant with the rules rather than bend them. If we do that then we really arent a true ROAR sanctioned event. At the national or at a Regional race, they wouldnt allow the stock brushless in the stock class, both are ROAR santioned, so why are we an exception?
Just my 2 cents.
Chris
I agree with Todd about the brushless testing in stock. If a faster driver was using it (ex. Cheston, LilB) then everyone would be at least two positions less than they would if they were using a regular brushed motor. But since Bill doesnt race often and isnt elligible for the points then why argue over it. But at the same time, it is against the ROAR rules. And the rules shouldnt be changed for one person. If we're going to let people go around the rules, then why cant some people run bearins in stock motors, or get around the interchanging of different manufacture motor parts. Some of those would be harder to inspect then see a huge ESC and motor for the brushless system. We just have to be consistant with the rules rather than bend them. If we do that then we really arent a true ROAR sanctioned event. At the national or at a Regional race, they wouldnt allow the stock brushless in the stock class, both are ROAR santioned, so why are we an exception?
Just my 2 cents.
Chris
04-27-2006, 01:15 PM
#158
Originally Posted by ground-round
Yeah, but the brushless will last the entire season. I buy at least one stock motor per State Series race. That's $40.00 x 7 races or $280. Not to mention $3 for brushes every time I run it. Total stock motor expense for the year is roughly $364. I'd love it if I only had to spend $99 on a motor.
Yes that is true...But as hot as it is down there you will be lucky to get 1-2 races out of one. So figure 75.00 street price times 4 and you will see it's still not going to cost you much less. And that does not count the 200.00 speedo you have to have with Brushless.
There is a very fine line from going fast with brushless and being on the edge of shutting down and being fast for 4 minutes and then shutting off. Ask Bill....his shut down in one heat race from being overgeared. Temperature plays a HUGE role in brushless as to weather you finish a race or not.
On the good side of it I would love to go to a race and not have to take a motor out all weekend!! Just practice, practice, practice.....no maintnace on the motor!!
When you think about it just remember to try and compare apples to apples.
EA
04-27-2006, 01:31 PM
#159
I got the 4.5 system and I had the ESC out further away from the center of the chassis to help get more cooling to the ESC. Hopefully mine wont shut down due to overheating. Just run an extra fan on the motor to help cool it
Also, I would like to add that Superior did an outstanding job running the race, keeping the event running smoothly and on time. And thanks to Izzy for calling leaders, great job and Im sure other people are thanking him as well.
chris
Also, I would like to add that Superior did an outstanding job running the race, keeping the event running smoothly and on time. And thanks to Izzy for calling leaders, great job and Im sure other people are thanking him as well.
chris
04-27-2006, 01:40 PM
#160
Tech Addict
I've been running the Novak 5.5 for several months now. Way more than one or two races. It has thermally shut down just once and I run much taller gearing than what is recommended by Novak. However, it is just now starting to get hot here in sunny Florida so the summer months will be the real test.
As for the finish of the stock A main, since when does one person get to decide who the winner of a race is?
Dave
As for the finish of the stock A main, since when does one person get to decide who the winner of a race is?
Dave
04-27-2006, 02:22 PM
#161
The only thing that concerns me about the brushless technology is really the speedo's, not the motors. For some reason I think that the designer/engineers involved could find way to make one brushless speedo better than the next with some software changes or something of that nature. We can all see if someone has an illegal arm, or something like that, but we will never know with the speedo's. It's just like the ASA series in real car racing a few years ago. They decided they would go to a sealed crate motor for their series to make the HP equal in every car. It only took 2 races for someone to figure out that if the reprogrammed the ECM (computer controling fuel flow, timing, ect.) they would make more horsepower. So then ASA started handing out the ECM's to each team on the starting grid. Would'nt it be great to get your speedo and brushless motor 1 heat before you raced?
My .02 cents
My .02 cents
04-27-2006, 10:15 PM
#162
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Yes that is true...But as hot as it is down there you will be lucky to get 1-2 races out of one. So figure 75.00 street price times 4 and you will see it's still not going to cost you much less. And that does not count the 200.00 speedo you have to have with Brushless.
There is a very fine line from going fast with brushless and being on the edge of shutting down and being fast for 4 minutes and then shutting off. Ask Bill....his shut down in one heat race from being overgeared. Temperature plays a HUGE role in brushless as to weather you finish a race or not.
On the good side of it I would love to go to a race and not have to take a motor out all weekend!! Just practice, practice, practice.....no maintnace on the motor!!
When you think about it just remember to try and compare apples to apples.
EA
There is a very fine line from going fast with brushless and being on the edge of shutting down and being fast for 4 minutes and then shutting off. Ask Bill....his shut down in one heat race from being overgeared. Temperature plays a HUGE role in brushless as to weather you finish a race or not.
On the good side of it I would love to go to a race and not have to take a motor out all weekend!! Just practice, practice, practice.....no maintnace on the motor!!
When you think about it just remember to try and compare apples to apples.
EA
04-28-2006, 06:25 AM
#163
Originally Posted by dave
As for the finish of the stock A main, since when does one person get to decide who the winner of a race is?
Dave
Dave
Thank you Izzy and Tony Munno in tech!!
04-28-2006, 07:21 AM
#164
Originally Posted by Marcos.J
it all depends on how you gear the brushless , I ran mine with the 4.5(10.6 fdr) and the track temp was about 140 F and my motor came out after 5 minutes at 161 degrees and the speedo was at 157 degress with out shutting down,as long as you dont over grear the brushless you wont shut down.
Not always true. If your car isnt handling very good (pushes or is loose) it will case the motors to overheat. I know Ray Huang went through about 6 motors and 5 or 6 speedo's at the Novak race in the 5800 class and only finished 1 race all weekend. Even Charlie and Bob could not fix it. It was NOT overgeared either.
Once quite a few guys start racing it every week and every heat race you might start seeing some of the problems that I have seen at big races where there are more than just 1 or 2 guys running them or practicing on them.
Over time the brushless will take over and the technology will be fixed and awesome.... I just dont think it needs to be shoved down everyones throat so fast.
EA
04-28-2006, 02:35 PM
#165
Tech Master
i just bought my brushless system and can't wait to throw away my 3.00 a pair brushes and my 150.00 lathe and my 300.00 magnet zapper and my 160.00 dyno.
keyence speedo 180.00
novak GTB 170.00 this speedo runs brushed motors as well
4 cheap 19 turn motors 100.00
1 brushless 4300 motor 70.00
time spent bench racing because i no longer have to baby sit a brushed motor is priceless.
12 brushless entries at the 1st focar event and we had 0 thermal issues
now if i was in the business of selling brushes and brushed motors i would tell you that brushless is the devil for sure.
correct me if i'm wroung ..but i was told you clip the blue wire on the sensor of a novak brushless system and thermal shutdowns are a thing of the past?
the florida oval scene has watched the stock class shrink from 40 racers down to less than 10 total including the pro stock class and stock and novice combined. brushless has grown to at least 20 guys and of all skill levels.
does anyone understand how much cheaper brushless motors will make it for the new racers? i was one of the last to switch to 4 cells i will not be the last to go brushless. this is a good thing for the hobby in general.
i love me some eric anderson and i have said this is going to hurt the little motor guys for sure. the day of lipos is coming and i have no clue how this will effect the battery matchers either. those who think outside the box and stay one step ahead will do just fine.
i won all the toys for brushed racing and even i can't wait to dump it all for brushless. yes it's in it's infancy but given a year or two more and we will all be bolting them into our rides.
eric why do you have to replace a brushless motor? are you telling us the magnets go south in them? school me up my brother from another mother.
the fsear series has a promoters class still right? i would try and get some 5800 or a 4300 class going now so you guys can get an idea of what to do in 2007 as far as classes go?
bill fraden don't be so damn greedy with that prototype brushless motor. take it to hobby world and get it bolted into pedanos car to test in the stock oval class there. the sooner the better.
also if this helps....the 4300 class in the focar series is just a few seconds off the full blown pro 19 turn class speeds.
19 turn brushed 39 laps 4:01 hobby world
4300 brushless 39 laps 4:04 hobby world
i think the 5800 motor would best that by two laps....i like brushless more every day. peace bill
keyence speedo 180.00
novak GTB 170.00 this speedo runs brushed motors as well
4 cheap 19 turn motors 100.00
1 brushless 4300 motor 70.00
time spent bench racing because i no longer have to baby sit a brushed motor is priceless.
12 brushless entries at the 1st focar event and we had 0 thermal issues
now if i was in the business of selling brushes and brushed motors i would tell you that brushless is the devil for sure.
correct me if i'm wroung ..but i was told you clip the blue wire on the sensor of a novak brushless system and thermal shutdowns are a thing of the past?
the florida oval scene has watched the stock class shrink from 40 racers down to less than 10 total including the pro stock class and stock and novice combined. brushless has grown to at least 20 guys and of all skill levels.
does anyone understand how much cheaper brushless motors will make it for the new racers? i was one of the last to switch to 4 cells i will not be the last to go brushless. this is a good thing for the hobby in general.
i love me some eric anderson and i have said this is going to hurt the little motor guys for sure. the day of lipos is coming and i have no clue how this will effect the battery matchers either. those who think outside the box and stay one step ahead will do just fine.
i won all the toys for brushed racing and even i can't wait to dump it all for brushless. yes it's in it's infancy but given a year or two more and we will all be bolting them into our rides.
eric why do you have to replace a brushless motor? are you telling us the magnets go south in them? school me up my brother from another mother.
the fsear series has a promoters class still right? i would try and get some 5800 or a 4300 class going now so you guys can get an idea of what to do in 2007 as far as classes go?
bill fraden don't be so damn greedy with that prototype brushless motor. take it to hobby world and get it bolted into pedanos car to test in the stock oval class there. the sooner the better.
also if this helps....the 4300 class in the focar series is just a few seconds off the full blown pro 19 turn class speeds.
19 turn brushed 39 laps 4:01 hobby world
4300 brushless 39 laps 4:04 hobby world
i think the 5800 motor would best that by two laps....i like brushless more every day. peace bill