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Xray T4 LCG conversion and more...

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Xray T4 LCG conversion and more...

Old 10-11-2017, 12:36 PM
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Now that is not what I had imagined But is crazy enough to try it
On what track do you use this configuration?
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:43 PM
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Trick question! Everywhere, because if that's what the tires like they work almost everywhere with small alignment changes.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Not so fast my good friend. You changed the angle of the shock relative to it's lower mounting point once it is in motion. Picture this please, with the shock lowered it will rotate with the arm more than converting that motion to shock travel. That's why the nitro sedans and Proto have the shocks mounted that way, to still retain the shock travel to wheel travel part right.
If the pivot points are the same relative TO EACH OTHER than the arch is the same regardless of where the mount's attachment points are...
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:44 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Phil Trotta View Post
Where the rear bracket bolts to the rear arm is now the lower shock position. Even thought the shock is Angled and bolted up in standard position

It's like standing shock waaaaay up. Imo
It's other way - with lowered pivot, it's like whole arm was lower, just without effects on rollcenter. So theoretically, dampers should be more vertical, than stock. It's all about angle between damper and line between lower damper pivot and arm's inner mount.

Two examples:
TA03 - it had low shock pivot in arm, lower than inner arm's mount, but also nearly vertical shocks. I believe it was only way to do proper geometry, because gearboxes were in way for laydown shocks.

IC cars - even in this thread was picture showing car with nearly horisontal shocks. But you can notice, that it also had lower shock mount way above arm mount
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Thanks!

Going by your setup:
1. narrower front end using bushings but increase width back to maximum by using wider wheel hexes, middle height bushings(try centred dot and inmost, see which one you like more);
2. now use the same rear bushing configuration as you have in the setup but raise them to top position.

Both changes increase roll stiffness (not bad by itself) but most importantly keep the roll centres a bit higher (they are bellow ground stock, that is a crutch).

3. now that you've increase roll stiffness you have two options, 1 if the car is too stiff and the wheels get off ground at every tiny bump them the springs are too stiff and you need softer ones. 2 the car is too responsive during cornering, increase camber link inner shims by 1mm front and rear and use thinner roll bars.
4. I think your front bushing configuration is the culprit together with the flex. See the Ford GT arm sweep configuration.

with this type of configuración the car should have less chassis roll correct ? It should behave more like a 1/10 ic car and generate more grip through the corners ? Overall flatter
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricardo_d99 View Post
with this type of configuración the car should have less chassis roll correct ? It should behave more like a 1/10 ic car and generate more grip through the corners ? Overall flatter
Now that you mention ic TC yes, their suspension is similar to that one I shared and has less roll than normal electric TC. The main points are the upper arm angle and upper arm length compared to the lower arms. If that generates more grip depends on many tire parameters like sensitivity to load, construction and chemical composition.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Now that you mention ic TC yes, their suspension is similar to that one I shared and has less roll than normal electric TC. The main points are the upper arm angle and upper arm length compared to the lower arms. If that generates more grip depends on many tire parameters like sensitivity to load, construction and chemical composition.
yeah for sure, I’ve done some testing myself but in gt 1/8, I basically tried convencional stand up shocks and then I DIY some extensión like those found on 1/8 IC Lola and I found that the car improve in many area it would carry much more speed through through the corners , chassis roll decrease quite a bit, it was less likely to lose the rear end mid corner, better steering and it was overall better, now I’m looking to get into 1/10 EC but I find the suspension to be quite Rollie and not nimble enough, could you further eloborate in the suspension ideas ? That i could potentially use? Right know I’m wanting to do something very similar to a 1/10 IC suspension geometry
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Old 01-08-2018, 04:17 AM
  #38  
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Cant compare both cars, the ic ones have the centre of gravity far higher than electric TC. If you've made extensions then you positioned the lower shock point closer to the wheel, therefore increased wheel rate (stiffer spring at the wheel).

I'm testing today some changes to a standard TC suspension to address the high amount of roll these cars have, will update here soon.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Cant compare both cars, the ic ones have the centre of gravity far higher than electric TC. If you've made extensions then you positioned the lower shock point closer to the wheel, therefore increased wheel rate (stiffer spring at the wheel).

I'm testing today some changes to a standard TC suspension to address the high amount of roll these cars have, will update here soon.
yes that’s correct , what changes will you be trying ? I’ve tried just laying down the upper part of the shock without any mods and I didn’t really like it still felt like it had a lot of roll
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricardo_d99 View Post
yes that’s correct , what changes will you be trying ? I’ve tried just laying down the upper part of the shock without any mods and I didn’t really like it still felt like it had a lot of roll
Lower arms level and compensate the upper arm angle so the roll centre remains at ground level or slightly above, that cut roll tremendously. The way you are doing it's softening the spring at the wheel, it will roll and bottom out more. To lower the CG and lessen roll you have to do like xray ulp shocks, shorten them and mount them lower.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
Lower arms level and compensate the upper arm angle so the roll centre remains at ground level or slightly above, that cut roll tremendously. The way you are doing it's softening the spring at the wheel, it will roll and bottom out more. To lower the CG and lessen roll you have to do like xray ulp shocks, shorten them and mount them lower.
would you mind providing some pictures so I can understand better , I’m a bit confused by “ Lower arm level” also “ softing the spring at the wheel “
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ricardo_d99 View Post
would you mind providing some pictures so I can understand better , I’m a bit confused by “ Lower arm level” also “ softing the spring at the wheel “



The thing I'm trying is the lower arms parallel with ground, the middle figure in the pic.

About the shock being softer or stiffer depending the angle and distance away is simple Mathematics. The farther away and/or lay down the shock is the softer it is and vice versa.

Test went half well, the car lacks bite and grip but roll seems too little.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:49 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post


The thing I'm trying is the lower arms parallel with ground, the middle figure in the pic.

About the shock being softer or stiffer depending the angle and distance away is simple Mathematics. The farther away and/or lay down the shock is the softer it is and vice versa.

Test went half well, the car lacks bite and grip but roll seems too little.
by looking at the diagram that you post , i kinda undestarnd what you to do, but i do feel changing the arm height would drastically change the behavior of the car something I will personally try is running both upper and lower arms stock but running the shocks in such a way were the force is being exserted right onto the middle of the wheel hex and the most outer part of the tire much like ic cars , I do feel that way you will have the bite and side grip you feel like you’re missing it might work or not, but it seems to work on full size cars really good , best example of this is the pagani huayra and the koenigsegg cars.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:40 AM
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I think you are misunderstanding how a suspension works. Doesn't matter where the force goes, for that the suspension only has to manage camber, toe and track width. Where you put the other stuff isn't important, the huayra puts the shock above the suspension because it can't be packaged anywhere else.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth View Post
I think you are misunderstanding how a suspension works. Doesn't matter where the force goes, for that the suspension only has to manage camber, toe and track width. Where you put the other stuff isn't important, the huayra puts the shock above the suspension because it can't be packaged anywhere else.

Red arrows: how the force is being apply and where.
Blue arrow: that’s where in conventional cars the shocks would be and where the force would be apply on
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