Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
10-21-2015, 08:25 AM
#601
Well to see there part of the issue right there. This is a US carpet issue, you are speaking of thing in Europe and on the Euro. The culture between our continents is so different and the type of people who enjoy RC road are so different that it's apples to oranges. In Europe the ETS races pack the house on a regular basis. Europeans are more accepting of spec rules that those here in the US. Just look at the arguments in the USVTA thread over the motor. I used to be one of them, until I realized how simple and fair and cheap the one motor rule actually was.
10-21-2015, 08:53 AM
#603
This way ANYONE can bring a car to the track and have fun. They can learn the ins & outs of RC car racing at a no-stress level and race against other newbies. Once they see the other classes, they'll gravitate towards what appeals to them. No need to pigeon-hole them into a class from the start, before they even know if or what they like.
I wish this existed when I started a couple of years ago. It was intimidating as hell to be on track with Snowbirds A-main guys on my first day of RC racing. Luckily for me, they were all really nice about all the chaos I was causing, I've heard horror stories about 'pro' drivers abusing rookies at other tracks.
Just some thoughts.
Mark
10-21-2015, 09:12 AM
#604
Actually quite simple. Just have an "open on-road" class. Any on-road chassis, any motor/esc, any tire, any body. No rules. Make it for newbies only, no experienced guys allowed (because they'll take the fun out of it in about 12 minutes). Put a limit of one year allowed in the class or "X" number of wins and they have to pick an organized class to run in.
This way ANYONE can bring a car to the track and have fun. They can learn the ins & outs of RC car racing at a no-stress level and race against other newbies. Once they see the other classes, they'll gravitate towards what appeals to them. No need to pigeon-hole them into a class from the start, before they even know if or what they like.
This way ANYONE can bring a car to the track and have fun. They can learn the ins & outs of RC car racing at a no-stress level and race against other newbies. Once they see the other classes, they'll gravitate towards what appeals to them. No need to pigeon-hole them into a class from the start, before they even know if or what they like.
10-21-2015, 12:08 PM
#605
Well to see there part of the issue right there. This is a US carpet issue, you are speaking of thing in Europe and on the Euro. The culture between our continents is so different and the type of people who enjoy RC road are so different that it's apples to oranges. In Europe the ETS races pack the house on a regular basis. Europeans are more accepting of spec rules that those here in the US. Just look at the arguments in the USVTA thread over the motor. I used to be one of them, until I realized how simple and fair and cheap the one motor rule actually was.
BTW Glennhl, 250 bucks in 1985 has the same buying power as 550$ today, according to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Not sure what you could get for 250$ back then, but you get my point.
10-21-2015, 12:12 PM
#606
I race with mark and he has surpassed me in the year or so he has been racing. Great guy. I like the idea he has.
I've raced break out before, and it's fun for about 3 minutes. I would only recommend it for the novice class. Help focus on driving and set up of whatever they are driving until they race the break out time. It could work well with what Mark was saying about the novice class. But when you race it as an actual experienced racer class, unless they breakout time is set really low, it is no fun. You be up with guys that 1. Put a way to big motor in the car, blast around the track and stop and the line every lap. Or 2 drivers take really wide lines to avoid breaking out. In iether case, drivers don't car about set up since it doesn't matter if your breaking out. At the racing level above novice, breakout punishes those that set their cars up properly and drive fast clean lines. Make one mistake and you'll never catch up. You will get penalized if you try.
But again, it has potential for helping introduce new drivers in a novice class.
In the "good ol' days" you could get a loaded high level car for about $350. That was the high end. Now that's the low end. Motors cost $50 or less, and a high end ESC was about $125. Batteries were a big expense though at around $80 for decently competitive packs. But a novice could get away with only 2 and a good charger. Transponders were handout, so there is another $100 you didn't have to spend, and radios were cheaper too. We all know racing cost money, and as racers we tend to spend more than we need to for some things and we as racers always will. However the cost barrier to entry for novices was smaller than it is now, especially when you compare it to other options that RC competes against now.
I've raced break out before, and it's fun for about 3 minutes. I would only recommend it for the novice class. Help focus on driving and set up of whatever they are driving until they race the break out time. It could work well with what Mark was saying about the novice class. But when you race it as an actual experienced racer class, unless they breakout time is set really low, it is no fun. You be up with guys that 1. Put a way to big motor in the car, blast around the track and stop and the line every lap. Or 2 drivers take really wide lines to avoid breaking out. In iether case, drivers don't car about set up since it doesn't matter if your breaking out. At the racing level above novice, breakout punishes those that set their cars up properly and drive fast clean lines. Make one mistake and you'll never catch up. You will get penalized if you try.
But again, it has potential for helping introduce new drivers in a novice class.
In the "good ol' days" you could get a loaded high level car for about $350. That was the high end. Now that's the low end. Motors cost $50 or less, and a high end ESC was about $125. Batteries were a big expense though at around $80 for decently competitive packs. But a novice could get away with only 2 and a good charger. Transponders were handout, so there is another $100 you didn't have to spend, and radios were cheaper too. We all know racing cost money, and as racers we tend to spend more than we need to for some things and we as racers always will. However the cost barrier to entry for novices was smaller than it is now, especially when you compare it to other options that RC competes against now.
Last edited by theproffesor; 10-21-2015 at 12:23 PM.
10-21-2015, 12:18 PM
#607
I race with mark and he has surpassed me in the year or so he has been racing. Great guy. I like the idea he has.
I've raced break out before, and it's fun for about 3 minutes. I would only recommend it for the novice class. Help focus on driving and set up of whatever they are driving until they race the break out time. It could work well with what Mark was saying about the novice class. But when you race it as an actual experienced racer class, unless they breakout time is set really low, it is no fun. You be up with guys that 1. Put a way to big motor in the car, blast around the track and stop and the line every lap. Or 2 drivers take really wide lines to avoid breaking out. In iether case, drivers don't car about set up since it doesn't matter if your breaking out. At the racing level above novice, breakout punishes those that set their cars up properly and drive fast clean lines. Make one mistake and you'll never catch up. You will get penalized if you try.
But again, it has potential for helping introduce new drivers in a novice class.
I've raced break out before, and it's fun for about 3 minutes. I would only recommend it for the novice class. Help focus on driving and set up of whatever they are driving until they race the break out time. It could work well with what Mark was saying about the novice class. But when you race it as an actual experienced racer class, unless they breakout time is set really low, it is no fun. You be up with guys that 1. Put a way to big motor in the car, blast around the track and stop and the line every lap. Or 2 drivers take really wide lines to avoid breaking out. In iether case, drivers don't car about set up since it doesn't matter if your breaking out. At the racing level above novice, breakout punishes those that set their cars up properly and drive fast clean lines. Make one mistake and you'll never catch up. You will get penalized if you try.
But again, it has potential for helping introduce new drivers in a novice class.
I agree. The Professor and I have raced at the same tracks. While breakout helped get people interested in racing TCs (we ran it in VTA), the interest died out after a season. The track that ran breakout is no longer running on-road because the guys running in that class moved on to other tracks that run regular national TC rule sets.
10-21-2015, 12:42 PM
#608
I agree. The Professor and I have raced at the same tracks. While breakout helped get people interested in racing TCs (we ran it in VTA), the interest died out after a season. The track that ran breakout is no longer running on-road because the guys running in that class moved on to other tracks that run regular national TC rule sets.
10-21-2015, 12:43 PM
#609
In the "good ol' days" you could get a loaded high level car for about $350. That was the high end. Now that's the low end. Motors cost $50 or less, and a high end ESC was about $125. Batteries were a big expense though at around $80 for decently competitive packs. But a novice could get away with only 2 and a good charger. Transponders were handout, so there is another $100 you didn't have to spend, and radios were cheaper too. We all know racing cost money, and as racers we tend to spend more than we need to for some things and we as racers always will. However the cost barrier to entry for novices was smaller than it is now, especially when you compare it to other options that RC competes against now.
Did you even read what I just posted ? Repeating something false over and over doesn't make it true.
10-21-2015, 01:00 PM
#610
1.Other hobbies (decrease in time and allocated budget)
2.Other racing classes
Which brings me to the diversification of classes. So many more choices now, this spreads out the people and the $ to go around for hobbies.
Now on a observational point of view, there simply seems to be RC Car burnout now. The technology has leveled off and the market has gotten Saturated, I have noticed RC around Texas is slow everywhere. I think the trend is nationwide, with the exception of a few pockets of densely populated areas. Off - road is going through a small boom right now due to the changing technology and new kits coming out. The slowdown is imminent here as I see the track situation bleak. Less and less tracks every day leads to less racing.
I have a feeling the RC Car Industry will see some shrinkage over the next few years until the next big thing comes around. Either that, or we will shift towards a more European style Model for racing where people incorporate into clubs or set up tracks on Park Lands to race. You see that in a few locations in the USA, but there are still too many commercial tracks to get to the tipping point.
10-21-2015, 01:14 PM
#611
This is not what I was discussing. I was debunking the whole "golden era" myth, specifically the myth about toy cars being cheaper in the past.
BTW Glennhl, 250 bucks in 1985 has the same buying power as 550$ today, according to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Not sure what you could get for 250$ back then, but you get my point.
BTW Glennhl, 250 bucks in 1985 has the same buying power as 550$ today, according to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
Not sure what you could get for 250$ back then, but you get my point.
To race competitively at club level, you spent around $250 for your kit, radio, motor, charger, batteries, body and tires. You didn't really need a $100 speed control, didn't need matched batteries, ran tires uncut, and probably spent $100 for the season in spares and replacements. It was a cheap, fun way to race through the winter months. Compared to the alternative, 1/8th scale nitro, it was spare change. It was cheap enough to have families join in with 3 or 4 cars for Mom, Dad, and the kids. With 50 to 60 racers a week, the skill levels sorted themselves and there was little need to have classes beyond Stock and Mod for the club enthusiast.
Now there was really no limit to what you could spend. Speed Controls, Minilathes to true and balance tires and coms, buying motors by the case, and buying 200 batteries a pop to get them before they were picked over to make the best matched sets. Machining you own parts to save weight, prepping 50 sets of tires so you could have the perfect combination, (you mounted different compounds of donuts to tune for the corners across the tire face), and regularly cooked your batteries looking for that last tenth advantage, letting every local hero invest unlimited cash, arrogance, and ego in equal measure. Want to guess what happened when Frogs and RC10s offered a new cheap off road alternative that ran indoor and out for year round fun?
We have committed suicide with our deep pockets, egos, and quests for speed. Every club in the country still has the guy that can't stand to see a class that he can't dominate regardless of cost or target driver skill. If we are to have enough racers to continue to support our tracks and hobby, we have to find an inexpensive, fun, entry class to recruit new drives and then define a growth ladder to enable them to build their skills and find a comfortable point to be competitive while staying within their abilities and budget.
We should all pause and take time to feed our Golden Goose.
10-21-2015, 01:16 PM
#612
The tracks in Augusta GA use county land (off-road permanent track) or the toys r us parking lot (on road, set up every race day). I had been a while since I raced at either of those clubs, but indo know one of the concerns of the facility providers was insurance liability and who does it fall on. Europe has less of a blame others mentality then we do, so it's probably easier in this respect for them to set up these kind of tracks.
Heretic, could you please explain how any of what I said wasn't true? And inflation isn't a huge issue since I was using 2005/06 pricing.
Heretic, could you please explain how any of what I said wasn't true? And inflation isn't a huge issue since I was using 2005/06 pricing.
10-21-2015, 01:22 PM
#613
While adjusted price dollar cost might be lower (it's arguable) what you are not factoring in to the decline of carpet on road racing is a decline in disposable income many people have now, whether wage related or simply because people own and buy more stuff than 15-20 ago, the "hobby budget" is spread over
1.Other hobbies (decrease in time and allocated budget)
2.Other racing classes
1.Other hobbies (decrease in time and allocated budget)
2.Other racing classes
Ergo, the price of RC has decreased, not marginally, but SPECTACULARLY since 1985.
I have very little opinion on the state of carpet racing in the US, for obvious reason. It just bothers me to see people say false things.
10-21-2015, 01:50 PM
#615
Blasphemy. We can't do this. We need all these folks that have been racing and in on road forever to tell the newbie's exactly what class they are to race in or screw them. We don't need them. We know better and the newbie's just don't get it. We know how to grow on road, not them.