"Stock" TC
03-25-2015, 09:11 AM
#76
Setting new motor limits for stock/superstock/mod is NOT the answer. The answer is clamping down on motor rules. The current rule set is way too open with tuning rotors, adjustable timing, short stack stators etc. With the rules as open as they currently are, motors are just going to get faster. Remember the brushed days? What could you do to them? Springs/brushes and cut the comm. Only allowed bushing and not bearings... I think there was even a maximum price motors had to be sold for. Now obviously brushless motors are a different beast then brushed, but the rules could be a lot more specific to keep speeds in check.
As for the sponsorship thing... That really doesn't mean anything anymore these days. Sure there are true sponsored guys that deserve to be and are, but there are a lot more that are "sponsored" drivers in some way (or at least think they are) and they probably shouldn't be because they are not ready to be sponsored or are just looking for a deal. So you really have to define what sponsorship is these days because unfortunately its lost a lot of its meaning compared to years ago. But I'm a bit of an old school guy when it comes to stuff like that, and I know that's is not the world we live in anymore.
As for the sponsorship thing... That really doesn't mean anything anymore these days. Sure there are true sponsored guys that deserve to be and are, but there are a lot more that are "sponsored" drivers in some way (or at least think they are) and they probably shouldn't be because they are not ready to be sponsored or are just looking for a deal. So you really have to define what sponsorship is these days because unfortunately its lost a lot of its meaning compared to years ago. But I'm a bit of an old school guy when it comes to stuff like that, and I know that's is not the world we live in anymore.
EA
03-25-2015, 09:23 AM
#77
But that being up front now is completely superficial. They're only up front because someone arbitrarily picked some point where anyone over it is too fast and no longer in the class. That person you told to move up might not feel comfortable running a faster class and might just quit racing. How does this benefit the hobby?
Not everyone can win the A-main. They need to accept that. It's called racing.
Not everyone can win the A-main. They need to accept that. It's called racing.
Defining our future based on the premise that we should all accept the fact that there's only one winner in every event will eventually kill racing as we know it. In fact, it's the very same mentality that's driving this discussion. Once we de-emphasize the competitive component of RC racing and put more emphasis on overall enjoyment of the activity, we'll begin to see our numbers increase. How we get to that point doesn't really matter, however, getting to that point before too many tracks close does matter...
03-25-2015, 09:23 AM
#78
03-25-2015, 09:26 AM
#79
The local club I'm running at tonight with 13.5 boosted is about 10 metres X 25 metres...
At the end of the day half the year (probably more in some parts of the US) is outside.....
Let's not forget that F1 and other fast motorsport race on a variety of sized tracks without halving (or more) the power
At the end of the day half the year (probably more in some parts of the US) is outside.....
Let's not forget that F1 and other fast motorsport race on a variety of sized tracks without halving (or more) the power
03-25-2015, 09:44 AM
#80
the fact is that stock "motors" are as fast as "mod" motors from 10 years ago.
that is the problem. nothing more.
many fixes are possible.
also, sand bagging is NEVER running a faster class. stupidity is running all motor classes for a chassis type.
that is the problem. nothing more.
many fixes are possible.
also, sand bagging is NEVER running a faster class. stupidity is running all motor classes for a chassis type.
03-25-2015, 09:47 AM
#81
One person quitting beats 10 racers quitting because they don't achieve the results they seek using the effort they are willing to expend. I too don't agree with that attitude, but it's the prevailing attitude that's preventing the hobby from being able to sustain itself. Most have realized that winning an A-main isn't attainable, and move on to something more satisfying.
Defining our future based on the premise that we should all accept the fact that there's only one winner in every event will eventually kill racing as we know it. In fact, it's the very same mentality that's driving this discussion. Once we de-emphasize the competitive component of RC racing and put more emphasis on overall enjoyment of the activity, we'll begin to see our numbers increase. How we get to that point doesn't really matter, however, getting to that point before too many tracks close does matter...
Defining our future based on the premise that we should all accept the fact that there's only one winner in every event will eventually kill racing as we know it. In fact, it's the very same mentality that's driving this discussion. Once we de-emphasize the competitive component of RC racing and put more emphasis on overall enjoyment of the activity, we'll begin to see our numbers increase. How we get to that point doesn't really matter, however, getting to that point before too many tracks close does matter...
I race against a few guys that I don't expect to beat, ever. I want them there though because they're a benchmark for what is possible and they push me to get quicker. If they weren't there and I won all the time, it would be much more difficult to improve and the victories would feel hollow.
03-25-2015, 10:10 AM
#82
The local club I'm running at tonight with 13.5 boosted is about 10 metres X 25 metres...
At the end of the day half the year (probably more in some parts of the US) is outside.....
Let's not forget that F1 and other fast motorsport race on a variety of sized tracks without halving (or more) the power
At the end of the day half the year (probably more in some parts of the US) is outside.....
Let's not forget that F1 and other fast motorsport race on a variety of sized tracks without halving (or more) the power
Indoor/outdoor racing seasons vary greatly here - I'm from the Mid-Atlantic region, and we race indoors more than outdoors; however, there are areas that probably run outdoors year round. That said, even the outdoor tracks tend to be smaller here.
Comparing professional full-scale race car drivers to hobbyists controlling scale models is again an apples to oranges comparison... I'd expect a professional to deal with conditions short of ideal, and an amateur to have the ability to freely choose which adverse situations he/she decides to pursue.
03-25-2015, 10:23 AM
#84
Having one winner doesn't kill racing. That IS racing. The idea that everyone needs to feel like a winner is ridiculous. Everyone needs to learn how to have fun, despite knowing that they will probably never win an A-main. The sooner they accept that and just enjoy racing their cars and improving their driving, the better we will all be.
I race against a few guys that I don't expect to beat, ever. I want them there though because they're a benchmark for what is possible and they push me to get quicker. If they weren't there and I won all the time, it would be much more difficult to improve and the victories would feel hollow.
I race against a few guys that I don't expect to beat, ever. I want them there though because they're a benchmark for what is possible and they push me to get quicker. If they weren't there and I won all the time, it would be much more difficult to improve and the victories would feel hollow.
03-25-2015, 10:29 AM
#85
Assuming no boost for the brushless car - I'd think the brushless/lipo car wins that race 9 times out of 10, unless there's a low turn mod in the brushed car...
03-25-2015, 10:33 AM
#86
I don't believe the answer is to make stock "easier". There are a lot of sports that are more difficult than RC racing IMO (e.g., golf). What keeps people going in those really difficult sports, is not winning, but the camaraderie that you develop. It's about having people of equal skill level as you all struggling to get better.
One of the main factors in human motivation is "relatedness/camaraderie" that you gain by doing the activity. So retaining individuals in RC is as much about friendships in the pits, than action on the track.
One of the main factors in human motivation is "relatedness/camaraderie" that you gain by doing the activity. So retaining individuals in RC is as much about friendships in the pits, than action on the track.
03-25-2015, 10:43 AM
#87
80'x35' represents an average sized carpet track, with very few being larger... While 13.5 boosted could be run successfully on a track that size, I doubt it would attract a crowd every week. We abandoned boost (with mod classes being the exception) several years ago once ESC manufacturers started the firmware wars.
Indoor/outdoor racing seasons vary greatly here - I'm from the Mid-Atlantic region, and we race indoors more than outdoors; however, there are areas that probably run outdoors year round. That said, even the outdoor tracks tend to be smaller here.
Comparing professional full-scale race car drivers to hobbyists controlling scale models is again an apples to oranges comparison... I'd expect a professional to deal with conditions short of ideal, and an amateur to have the ability to freely choose which adverse situations he/she decides to pursue.
Indoor/outdoor racing seasons vary greatly here - I'm from the Mid-Atlantic region, and we race indoors more than outdoors; however, there are areas that probably run outdoors year round. That said, even the outdoor tracks tend to be smaller here.
Comparing professional full-scale race car drivers to hobbyists controlling scale models is again an apples to oranges comparison... I'd expect a professional to deal with conditions short of ideal, and an amateur to have the ability to freely choose which adverse situations he/she decides to pursue.
By all means run a slow class for whatever suits a track that's the size of some living rooms.... just don't expect to get praise for being sponsored to do so nor attempt to win a national title for doing so.
I'm also mainly referring to "good" or at least semi skilled drivers who know how to use the brakes to run on smaller tracks. Not little timmy just starting out.
And you only get the "crowds" every week because it's way below their skill level....
Just because 10 half decent drivers run a class below them doesn't make it worthwhile. It's just 10 guys/girls trying really hard to go slowly..
03-25-2015, 10:55 AM
#88
I think durability is a big issue here. Outsiders and newbies are often times shocked at the amount of time and effort that needs to be spent to fix broken parts. Whether it's off-road or on road - the need to keep an army of c-hubs and suspension arms can be a bit off-putting and expensive. It's frustrating to run something for 2 minutes, tap a wall and then need to spend 10 minutes replacing a broken part. Slower motors compensate for this by making crashes less catastrophic. If the cars stayed the same speed, but were less fragile, I think more people would stick around.
03-25-2015, 11:03 AM
#89
By all means run a slow class for whatever suits a track that's the size of some living rooms.... just don't expect to get praise for being sponsored to do so nor attempt to win a national title for doing so.
I'm also mainly referring to "good" or at least semi skilled drivers who know how to use the brakes to run on smaller tracks. Not little timmy just starting out.
And you only get the "crowds" every week because it's way below their skill level....
Just because 10 half decent drivers run a class below them doesn't make it worthwhile. It's just 10 guys/girls trying really hard to go slowly..
I'm also mainly referring to "good" or at least semi skilled drivers who know how to use the brakes to run on smaller tracks. Not little timmy just starting out.
And you only get the "crowds" every week because it's way below their skill level....
Just because 10 half decent drivers run a class below them doesn't make it worthwhile. It's just 10 guys/girls trying really hard to go slowly..
No one is suggesting that all mod drivers run a slower class
Why must so many mod drivers persist on everyone moving up to mod ?
I enjoy both on occasion, really it's what ever is fun that drives me to go to the races, after all it is a hobby playing with toy cars
03-25-2015, 11:16 AM
#90
Big problem is new people only care about "how fast does it go?"
Our new people get bored with VTA and call it too slow
Our new people get bored with VTA and call it too slow