"Stock" TC
04-09-2015, 07:46 AM
#436
If you have different length races, and people are pushing the thermal limits as they are, then they are then even more likely to blow up during the mains as the gearing would have to be adjusted etc. (geared down) to prevent overheating.
How many motors would be killed before people actually found what works (and lasts).
How many motors would be killed before people actually found what works (and lasts).
We run 8 minute mains and 4 minute quals on our weekday races. I run generally the same gearing as I ran at Birds, and Nats ( some layouts may need slight variations) with no more heat generated, no more fall off, and yes easy runtime is not a problem..
04-09-2015, 08:00 AM
#437
I have an idea, and I want to see what you guys think about this.
Has anyone noticed that the capacity (mAh) of the batteries we use keeps going up? Up to the point where racers are beginning to use smaller batteries to save weight?
What if we made races longer? And, someone tell me why in electric racing qualifiers are the same length as mains? Qualifiers should be 4 minutes long and mains should be 8-10 minutes long. This will make things more interesting, and longer racers make skill more important than motor.
When 1/12 scale first started oh so long ago, the race length was made 8 minutes because everyone knew your batteries would never last that long if you drove flat out. You had to plan your race strategy accordingly. We should go back to something like.
And before anyone says anything about overheating motors, there's an answer to that gear down!!!
Has anyone noticed that the capacity (mAh) of the batteries we use keeps going up? Up to the point where racers are beginning to use smaller batteries to save weight?
What if we made races longer? And, someone tell me why in electric racing qualifiers are the same length as mains? Qualifiers should be 4 minutes long and mains should be 8-10 minutes long. This will make things more interesting, and longer racers make skill more important than motor.
When 1/12 scale first started oh so long ago, the race length was made 8 minutes because everyone knew your batteries would never last that long if you drove flat out. You had to plan your race strategy accordingly. We should go back to something like.
And before anyone says anything about overheating motors, there's an answer to that gear down!!!
Last edited by oeoeo327; 04-09-2015 at 08:17 AM.
04-09-2015, 10:15 AM
#438
If you have different length races, and people are pushing the thermal limits as they are, then they are then even more likely to blow up during the mains as the gearing would have to be adjusted etc. (geared down) to prevent overheating.
How many motors would be killed before people actually found what works (and lasts).
How many motors would be killed before people actually found what works (and lasts).
04-09-2015, 10:29 AM
#439
Most people don't remember when the real "stock" began, and stock meant you couldn't do anything to the motor. At all. Can I changeNO!!! And this class was specifically designed to bring new people into the hobby. The big class was modified. But as the mod class got faster and faster, and the top drivers got better, some of the guys in stock started finding tricks to make their stock motor faster. They also found that they couldn't quite keep up in mod, but in stock they were top of the A every week. That's when the lie of "stock has nothing to do with skill level" started, and we've been in this boat ever since.
VTA and USGT are not beginner classes, but they can serve as such for some tracks, and since both classes have nationally recognized rules, racers can go to different tracks and run the same car. Not a perfect solution, but one that can work.
04-09-2015, 10:58 AM
#440
In order to find a solution you first need to know what the problem is. I see no issue with the current stock tc rule. If stock tc is too fast you move to USGT or VTA. If stock tc is too slow you go to mod. There is nothing wrong with factory drivers racing in stock tc. It will only make all of us faster. Remember we get our setup and tips from them.
The real question is what caused the mass exodus from on road, especially in the midwest here? I remember a certain year at Trackside in Milwaukee when all of the tc racers just disappeared into thin air. So those racers that quit on road can you guys tell us why you are no longer racing touring cars? Was it cost, time or something else?
What do we do now to get more participation in on road racing? The options are there and the cost has never been cheaper but I still don't understand why on road racing is not picking up? I have a few ideas but I want to hear why others have to say first.
The real question is what caused the mass exodus from on road, especially in the midwest here? I remember a certain year at Trackside in Milwaukee when all of the tc racers just disappeared into thin air. So those racers that quit on road can you guys tell us why you are no longer racing touring cars? Was it cost, time or something else?
What do we do now to get more participation in on road racing? The options are there and the cost has never been cheaper but I still don't understand why on road racing is not picking up? I have a few ideas but I want to hear why others have to say first.
Last edited by v_squared; 04-09-2015 at 12:50 PM.
04-09-2015, 12:17 PM
#441
Midwest has strong on road showing. It always ebbs and flows and a lot of racing can be based around tracks, So with the change of trackside to off road you probably did see a decline locally. Though Harbor hobbies probably had a pickup in attendance at the same time. We are having great racing as our regular crowds continue to grow and on road remains strong just a couple hundred miles away in MN.
04-09-2015, 12:49 PM
#442
It's nice to hear that on road is stills going strong in your area. There was a big drop in on road at Trakside that was why Scotty had not choice but to convert the track to off road.
Midwest has strong on road showing. It always ebbs and flows and a lot of racing can be based around tracks, So with the change of trackside to off road you probably did see a decline locally. Though Harbor hobbies probably had a pickup in attendance at the same time. We are having great racing as our regular crowds continue to grow and on road remains strong just a couple hundred miles away in MN.
04-09-2015, 12:58 PM
#443
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
In order to find a solution you first need to know what the problem is. I see no issue with the current stock tc rule. If stock tc is too fast you move to USGT or VTA. If stock tc is too slow you go to mod. There is nothing wrong with factory drivers racing in stock tc. It will only make all of us faster. Remember we get our setup and tips from them.
The real question is what caused the mass exodus from on road, especially in the midwest here? I remember a certain year at Trackside in Milwaukee when all of the tc racers just disappeared into thin air. So those racers that quit on road can you guys tell us why you are no longer racing touring cars? Was it cost, time or something else?
What do we do now to get more participation in on road racing? The options are there and the cost has never been cheaper but I still don't understand why on road racing is not picking up? I have a few ideas but I want to hear why others have to say first.
The real question is what caused the mass exodus from on road, especially in the midwest here? I remember a certain year at Trackside in Milwaukee when all of the tc racers just disappeared into thin air. So those racers that quit on road can you guys tell us why you are no longer racing touring cars? Was it cost, time or something else?
What do we do now to get more participation in on road racing? The options are there and the cost has never been cheaper but I still don't understand why on road racing is not picking up? I have a few ideas but I want to hear why others have to say first.
04-09-2015, 01:02 PM
#444
04-09-2015, 02:09 PM
#445
Read posts up to page 14 till I decided to comment and it might have been addressed already.
Leave USGT alone as it is a great close class just a tick slower than 17.5TC and its fairly cheap except for all the tungsten I had to buy to make weight.
Make Stock TC 13.5 and lower the weight 30 grams. It would spread the speed gap from USGT and I would struggle less to find a place to put weight on the Evo. LOL
Then you have full blown Mod and open esc timing min weight 1300g. As stated before you don't need the best batt or motor. I use 2 season old SMC 6500's and they work fine. I messed up last week and put in used pack from the previous round, made 4.5 minutes in that next mod heat before it hit the lvc. 10.5 min with a 4 turn using 2 year old batteries is pretty good/cheap if you ask me.
Jeremiah Ward #177
Leave USGT alone as it is a great close class just a tick slower than 17.5TC and its fairly cheap except for all the tungsten I had to buy to make weight.
Make Stock TC 13.5 and lower the weight 30 grams. It would spread the speed gap from USGT and I would struggle less to find a place to put weight on the Evo. LOL
Then you have full blown Mod and open esc timing min weight 1300g. As stated before you don't need the best batt or motor. I use 2 season old SMC 6500's and they work fine. I messed up last week and put in used pack from the previous round, made 4.5 minutes in that next mod heat before it hit the lvc. 10.5 min with a 4 turn using 2 year old batteries is pretty good/cheap if you ask me.
Jeremiah Ward #177
04-09-2015, 03:38 PM
#446
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
This ^. 10 - 12 min is about the max I think a race should be. USVTA mains are 8 and it's great. If your not that far behind, you have an opportunity to catch up. 8 minutes has been very beneficial to me in the past. Car was switched off in a collision in lap 2, turmashal fixed it and put it back on the track just as the leaders were coming around. It took all 8 minutes of an otherwise (unusually flawless) race, but I was able to catch back up to 3'rd and has a door to door for the last minute or so. The top two had checked out and were a couple laps up on the whole field.
I ran 8 minutes in MOD with a 4.5T last year no issues with battery capacity or motor overheating.
My favorite aspect of nitro was the longer racers and there is no reason why we couldn't race longer today.
Most likely, locally electric was not overly popular locally as it was too expensive to run mod (round cell battery war) and stock + super stock was too slow. Nitro was very popular at the time, but noise restrictions and the introduction of Lipo and brushless moved a lot more racers to electric.
