lrp brushless esc
10-26-2005, 09:29 AM
#331
Any idea when we might see a stock or 19T brushless? The current unit is great but it can be hard convince other to run mod and is seems like nobody wants to run mod on rubber tires.
Mark
Mark
10-26-2005, 09:37 AM
#332
@WildCherry: which harness do you mean? Are you talking about the 2 different length (100mm and 200mm) sensor wires? If so, these are available since several month and for sure your LHS can get those.
There's already 3 winds available as Neo1's (1- to 3-Star) and these are all available by now, these compare to brushed motos in the 9 to 13t and are suited for all modified classes (OnRoad, 4wd OffRoad, Truck, 2wd OffRoad). There was the new 4-Star Neo1 introduced at the I-Hobby show last week, which is not available yet. Should be until end of this year.
@mteveten: do you mean other winds then the ones I stated above? There's no plans for "slower motors" at this moment, since none of our distributers asked for those. If there's a demand, we'll of course make some with higher turns as well to accomodate those racers.
There's already 3 winds available as Neo1's (1- to 3-Star) and these are all available by now, these compare to brushed motos in the 9 to 13t and are suited for all modified classes (OnRoad, 4wd OffRoad, Truck, 2wd OffRoad). There was the new 4-Star Neo1 introduced at the I-Hobby show last week, which is not available yet. Should be until end of this year.
@mteveten: do you mean other winds then the ones I stated above? There's no plans for "slower motors" at this moment, since none of our distributers asked for those. If there's a demand, we'll of course make some with higher turns as well to accomodate those racers.
10-26-2005, 10:52 AM
#333
Personally, I'd like to see a BL version of the QM19t.. As long as it runs exactly like the QM19t, I don't care what turn rating you give it. I wish there was a controller that you could just "dial in" what turn motor you want to run. Having different wind options is great, and especially when they don't cost too much more than a brush motor. But still, having on motor that can be made to run like anything from an 8x1 to a stocker would be a beautiful thing. The Mamba from Castle Creations has that level of adjustability, but they call it advancing the timing.. LRP would work on that concept for their next model..
burito, point taken. As I said, I'm as helpful as the next guy, but I don't react well to being insulted. Hopefully that'll be the end of it.. If others can leave it behind, so can I.
burito, point taken. As I said, I'm as helpful as the next guy, but I don't react well to being insulted. Hopefully that'll be the end of it.. If others can leave it behind, so can I.
10-26-2005, 11:06 AM
#334
@speedmunkey: good post, keep it coming this way... 
The timing is not that advanced... We of course also look into this and have done lot's of testing with timing related stuff, but I'm not allowed to go into details at this stage.
But what you describe is technically impossible, the controller can not simulate any wind. It probably could in some way but it would be VERY inefficient doing this. Of course some slight changes are possible to be made with the speedo, but that can NO WAY cover a range from 8t to 19t.
But the idea of a "19t equivalent brushless motor" doesn't sound too bad, will look into this and will see what is possible and what is not. Will be hard to make it completely equal, due to the different characteristics of brushless and brushed.
The timing is not that advanced... We of course also look into this and have done lot's of testing with timing related stuff, but I'm not allowed to go into details at this stage.
But what you describe is technically impossible, the controller can not simulate any wind. It probably could in some way but it would be VERY inefficient doing this. Of course some slight changes are possible to be made with the speedo, but that can NO WAY cover a range from 8t to 19t.
But the idea of a "19t equivalent brushless motor" doesn't sound too bad, will look into this and will see what is possible and what is not. Will be hard to make it completely equal, due to the different characteristics of brushless and brushed.
10-26-2005, 11:19 AM
#335
burito, I am not trying to make an arguement. But you say it impossible for a speed control to be able to have a motor simulation option. Being able to dial in a turn if you will. Are you saying it can not be done now in the case of programming? Size of the equiptment. Or we are just not there yet in technology?
10 years ago if someone said we were going to get rid of the throttle cable on a car and replace it with a motor and position sensor. People would had said you were crazy.
I do believe that in the next few years there will be the technology to be able to dial in a motor to the speed control.
What it does sound like is the programming is the major draw back right now going to a dial in system. If you think about it. Can't a speed control now limit current to the motor? My Tekin G10 sure does. I know not the same thing with the G10. But just trying to explain my thought on it. It all in the pulse width
10 years ago if someone said we were going to get rid of the throttle cable on a car and replace it with a motor and position sensor. People would had said you were crazy.
I do believe that in the next few years there will be the technology to be able to dial in a motor to the speed control.
What it does sound like is the programming is the major draw back right now going to a dial in system. If you think about it. Can't a speed control now limit current to the motor? My Tekin G10 sure does. I know not the same thing with the G10. But just trying to explain my thought on it. It all in the pulse width
10-26-2005, 11:39 AM
#336
A Novak 4300 motor is very close to the performance of a 19t. It would be interesting to dyno one to see where it falls in terms of performance.
A friend dialed back his EPA to tame his GTB 5.5 with good results. It did not seem to hurt the throttle curve in any way that I could tell (I drove it for a pack). This certainly would not provide any value as a spec class option, just a tuning aid.
burito, is there any down side to this type of setting that you know of?
A friend dialed back his EPA to tame his GTB 5.5 with good results. It did not seem to hurt the throttle curve in any way that I could tell (I drove it for a pack). This certainly would not provide any value as a spec class option, just a tuning aid.
burito, is there any down side to this type of setting that you know of?
10-26-2005, 11:48 AM
#337
The downside is heat. BL motors run best when they're wide open. Half throttle situations kill their efficiency and generates heat. I race on a small oval, and when I ran the SS5800, I tried this approach. It always thermalled when I ran it like that, yet the same gearing on 100% throttle barely got warm.. Might not be true of newer systems, but the old Novaks do NOT like being ran like that.. I'm running the LRP on 4c instead of 6c to give me better control of the rpm..
10-26-2005, 12:04 PM
#338
@dodgeguy: no, what I tried to say is that it's physically impossible. For us, for Novak, and "even" for the Mamba guys... 
Of course is the limitation of the throttle signals on the radio (sorry, don't know the word for this...) the easiest way. But this is to simple to call it a "turn dial in".
To really simulate a specific brush wind with a brushless system, it would be necessary to do this for all aspects of the motor. Torque, spool-up time, RPM, decrease ratio during slow-down, natural braking, etc.
So for the moment, as far as I can see at least (I'm not the designer btw...) it's not a matter of size, technology or anything like that. It's simply not possible by physical principles.
Why would the "advanced" sensorless airplane guys have different winds for the planes if it would be possible to do the same in the speedo?
Don't want to sound like a smart ass btw, hard to find the good words...
Of course is the limitation of the throttle signals on the radio (sorry, don't know the word for this...) the easiest way. But this is to simple to call it a "turn dial in".
To really simulate a specific brush wind with a brushless system, it would be necessary to do this for all aspects of the motor. Torque, spool-up time, RPM, decrease ratio during slow-down, natural braking, etc.
So for the moment, as far as I can see at least (I'm not the designer btw...) it's not a matter of size, technology or anything like that. It's simply not possible by physical principles.
Why would the "advanced" sensorless airplane guys have different winds for the planes if it would be possible to do the same in the speedo?
Don't want to sound like a smart ass btw, hard to find the good words...
10-26-2005, 12:11 PM
#339
Wouldn't the amount of steps and PWM times be the major factor in getting this done? Along with sensing RPM. Sorry I see this as to simple. I mean Chrysler can take a V8 and deactivate 4 cylinders in 20ms and turn them back on every 6 seconds. And you can not fell a thing! That was a matter of programing to get everything to work together.
That was a matter of programing to get everything to work together.
10-26-2005, 12:20 PM
#340
Either I need to call Chrysler, or in the worst case you'll be doing the programming for us... Deal?
Maybe in 5yrs time we'll be laughing about this, but I do honestly doubt it will be possible to achieve in a good way.
Next subject...
Maybe in 5yrs time we'll be laughing about this, but I do honestly doubt it will be possible to achieve in a good way.
Next subject...
10-26-2005, 12:36 PM
#341
Burito,
I think the market for 27T stock and 19T equivlents would be much larger than modified in the US since most of our club level racing is stock or 19T and not mod.
Mark
I think the market for 27T stock and 19T equivlents would be much larger than modified in the US since most of our club level racing is stock or 19T and not mod.
Mark
10-26-2005, 12:37 PM
#342
Originally Posted by burito
Either I need to call Chrysler, or in the worst case you'll be doing the programming for us... Deal?
Maybe in 5yrs time we'll be laughing about this, but I do honestly doubt it will be possible to achieve in a good way.
Next subject...
Maybe in 5yrs time we'll be laughing about this, but I do honestly doubt it will be possible to achieve in a good way.
Next subject...
Just like in the future when your cars check engine light comes on. Your car will send a signal out to indicate the light. And you later get a notice in the mail/email that you have the light on and you have 4 weeks to get it fixed or your car is disabled. And you all think On star is such a good thing...
10-26-2005, 12:38 PM
#343
Originally Posted by mtveten
Burito,
I think the market for 27T stock and 19T equivlents would be much larger than modified in the US since most of our club level racing is stock or 19T and not mod.
Mark
I think the market for 27T stock and 19T equivlents would be much larger than modified in the US since most of our club level racing is stock or 19T and not mod.
Mark
10-26-2005, 11:03 PM
#344
Originally Posted by burito
About the "BEC complaints", let's face it... 99% of these issues are related to racers using the Spektrum system, it works fine with all other receivers/servos. Why do you think does Spektrum release a capacitor set and an update of their receiver? Because the speedos have a problem or their receiver... They keep blaming weak BEC's, but the truth is that the Spektrum is VERY unreliable on this subject! I don't want to start a flaming war, but it's simply not true that the Sphere has a BEC issue.
Btw, the Sphere shares the exact same voltage regulator chip as Novak uses! So hard to believe this should be the problem...
Btw, the Sphere shares the exact same voltage regulator chip as Novak uses! So hard to believe this should be the problem...
burito, saw this post your wrote on Radio Control Zone.... The Novak GTB nor the 5800 Super Sport have had any problems when used with the Spektrum from what I have been reading in the different forums and seen at the track. Is not having a cap on the Sphere causing the problems with regards to constant voltage, etc.?! I wonder.... hope you can share your thoughts on this.
Last edited by TEAM-AE-4-EVER; 10-27-2005 at 02:26 AM.
10-26-2005, 11:11 PM
#345
@team-ae: I just replied over on radiocontrolzone as well.
Can you describe what "the problem" really was in your case? Because so far I never get detailed reports and our own investigation here at LRP has shown it works flawlessly.
Of course, a capacitor always improves such issues. So in case anyone has a problem, when using Spektrum or other systems, it might be wise to try both a powercapacitor (connected between + & - of the drive battery) and an RX-capacitor (connected to the BAT slot of the receiver) to see if this cures the problems.
Can you describe what "the problem" really was in your case? Because so far I never get detailed reports and our own investigation here at LRP has shown it works flawlessly.
Of course, a capacitor always improves such issues. So in case anyone has a problem, when using Spektrum or other systems, it might be wise to try both a powercapacitor (connected between + & - of the drive battery) and an RX-capacitor (connected to the BAT slot of the receiver) to see if this cures the problems.
