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Old 03-25-2005, 09:26 AM   #946
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Anthony
I wonder is profanity and quality are a consideration....
Me too, I know my kids ears were ringing

I for 1 will never attend another event there and also the same goes for many of my team memebers.
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Old 03-25-2005, 09:49 AM   #947
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You guys want a good laugh go to HC's website and read the guy's report.I know many people who won't be going back or to begin with.What a way to promote your business.Whatever.Mario.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:00 AM   #948
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I've been holding my breath for so long on this since I wasn't there...But I'd really be curious to see the remarks/comments from the ROAR official that oversaw the event...I know Chris and Carl have been putting out as many fires as possible - as well as Dawn and the other excomm people...But the official on-site has been very quiet regarding the whole ordeal....
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:11 AM   #949
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Quote:
Originally posted by k_bojar
I've been holding my breath for so long on this since I wasn't there...But I'd really be curious to see the remarks/comments from the ROAR official that oversaw the event...I know Chris and Carl have been putting out as many fires as possible - as well as Dawn and the other excomm people...But the official on-site has been very quiet regarding the whole ordeal....
SINCE THIS WAS THE FIRST NATIONAL I HAVE ATTENDED AND I REALLY HAD NO FRAME OF REFERENCE,I ASKED THE ROAR OFFICIAL THERE HOW THIS EVENT RATED ON A SCALE OF 1-10 AND HE REPLIED IT WAS 2
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:22 AM   #950
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:35 AM   #951
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It's good to keep the motors as 3 pole more for Ease of assembly and tech, just a bit simpler.

I have no major opion on the Price Limit, Make them both the same, and the higher of the two. Brushless does have a slight technology advantage, so a few extra bucks in development for Brushed is fine.

Currently, there are no Magnet rules that are enforced, they have no way of determining at the track what is "In" the magnets, so this is a non-issue. Just change the wording of the rules. Most motor manufactures probably don't want stronger magnets, they have plenty of power now, they want a magnet that "last" longer, and holds up to heat better. This is a good thing for the end user as well.

So how do we go about having these adjustments made for the Next Nats to avoid this problem???

Hopefull our prototype will be in production soon, but I have no release date available right now. There are a few things still being finalized.

Thanks
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:38 AM   #952
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh really?
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:48 AM   #953
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You can tech a 3 or 5 or 7 segment armature just as easy, especially now since there is no turn limit....

As for how brushless motors are wound, sorry....I think that should be changed too....what's good for one is good for the other....

Allowing bigger arms with more segments will allow us to produce a motor that has way less maintenance than our current brushed motors do, helping us compete in that factor, which is the #1 selling point people argue with brushless....not to mention more power.....

Just allowing us NEO mags will do nothing, as they won't do much with the smaller arms....the magnetic field will simply overpower the arm...

And it does not matter than you guys have a different of making your motors that justify the higher price.....we have never been allowed to do much different to justify the use of the remaining dollars....we will if the rules get opened up.


And please don't ever say no maintenance is required.....its a moving part with bearings being operated in a not so clean enviroment under harsh conditions......so while I agree that that maintenance is WAY less.....there is still some that will be done and the guys who do it more often will have a better running motor.....

And just like brushed motors, over time......tips and tricks will be developed for brushless, remember, we are all tinkers....

Like I said, its suppose to be MODIFIED......

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Old 03-25-2005, 10:51 AM   #954
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Charlie, email me at [email protected]

I would like to chat about this magnet stuff you are talking about....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:57 AM   #955
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Quote:
Originally posted by k_bojar
I've been holding my breath for so long on this since I wasn't there...But I'd really be curious to see the remarks/comments from the ROAR official that oversaw the event...I know Chris and Carl have been putting out as many fires as possible - as well as Dawn and the other excomm people...But the official on-site has been very quiet regarding the whole ordeal....
It is part of the Designated Officals scope to clsoe out the event with a summary/report. I know that David was taking notes during the event to help keep is report as accurate as possible. I don't know if that report is ever published, but it does get done.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:11 AM   #956
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Anthony
I wonder is profanity and quality are a consideration....

From the 2005 Nationals Guidlines:

2.5. The Race Director and all other key officials involved in the conduct of a ROAR National must be ROAR members, familiar with the rules, and able to apply them in a consistent, friendly manner. Any questions arising regarding the rules may be referred to the Designated ROAR Official for a final interpretation.


I do not know what David's ruling on George's outburst was/is. I have not looked it up but there also might be rules violations about the outburst that can tie 2.5 to a final interpretation by the DRO.



3.2. Performance Bond:
To ensure that the host¡¦s basic financial responsibility to ROAR is met and that the race is run according to ROAR standards, the Host is required to post a $1,000 performance bond with the ROAR Administrator, payable as follows:
o $500 on or before January 31 of the year in which the event takes place.
o The remaining $500 no later than 1 month prior to the start of the event.
„h After the event, ROAR may refund a portion of the performance bond amount to the Host.
The ROAR fee of $5 per entry fee may be deducted from the bond, if not paid separately.
$300 of the performance bond will be held for up to two months. For the Host to receive a return of this portion of the performance bond, all ROAR technical equipment utilized by the Host for the event must be returned to, and received by the ROAR competition Administrator, and the ROAR Administrator must receive a written race report for the Rev-Up Newsletter. If either the equipment is not returned or the race report is not received within two months of the end of the event, the $300 will not be refunded to the Host. The actual balance due the Host will be refunded after their checks to ROAR have cleared the bank. In the event of substandard performance in the presentation of the event, or of loss or damage to the technical equipment, ROAR may retain part or all of the $1000 performance bond as deemed necessary.




There is language in here that can allow ROAR to withhold performance bond money (substandard performance). However, I think that it will cost ROAR more in court fees to defend that decision. There is other langauge in the Nationals Guidleines which can bring questions to the quality of the staff running the event.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:20 AM   #957
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From the 2005 Rules Book:

Kind of tough to tie this in since George is not a racer:
5.1.1 ROAR aims to promote family-oriented racing. Unruly or unsportsmanlike conduct will
therefore not be tolerated. Individuals judged by the Designated ROAR Official or Race
Director to be in violation of the spirit of this rule will be disqualified and requested to leave
the race area.

5.13.4 The following offenses by a driver or member of his crew


This only applies to racers:
may result in disqualification if
deemed appropriate by the Race Director. If not deemed appropriate, the minimum penalty
will be no score for the race in question. A second offense of the same type may result in
immediate disqualification:

5.12.3 A black flag ruling may be used at any time for unsportsmanlike conduct or abusive
language to other drivers or race officials.

5.13.4.2 Subjecting a Race Official to improper language or other demeaning actions.


After skimming the rules, most of the rules that may apply to this situation refer to the Race Director, in this case George, taking action against a racer. Since George was not a racer, it would be tough to get any of the unsportsmanlike rules to stick to him. I guess the authors of the rules never considered that the race director would act in an unsportsmanlike manner.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:36 AM   #958
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Eddie, You'll get mail in a second here.

I guess another way to look at it is, changing the number of segments and poles will increase development cost and offer significantly more choices for the racers, this can be good, but will mostly be bad for the racers in the end. I think anyway.

Back to all of being on the same page for the rules.

Keeping the motors to 3 pole, and let them both run the same kind of winds. Are there any major problems with that??? Let them both Be "Y" wind correct? Or both be Delta, Delta is considered the "slower" right? So that being allowd now is fine as it's a given disadvantage. But opening up the Brushed motors to allow Y wind. Is that even called out as not legal now???

Somebody should maybe make a thread already. 123 not it.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:50 AM   #959
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Development costs would not be that much....Sagami already makes an arm that could easily be adapted....

5 or 7 segment arms would decrease brush wear and improve power and reliability....

I don't think the choices will be overwhelming.......

The arms need to be bigger though in size, to be able to take advantage of the better magnets.....

They have never termed the brushed motor windings like that.....just cross wrapped (mabuchi) and hemi wound, either done by hand or machine....I think maybe the ifmar rules same something like that, I may be wrong....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:59 AM   #960
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Quote:
Originally posted by raffaelli
From the 2005 Nationals Guidlines:
We all can read the rule book till we are blue in the face, most of this is new territory, and needs to be addressed, not just "look at the rule book"

What is going to be done in the future so nothing like this WILL EVER HAPPEN AGAIN....
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