BRUSHLESS MOTORS Now Legal At ROAR Races & The IFMAR Worlds!!!
#271
Like touring cars in early 90's back in the day when it was all about off road 10 scale pan
#272
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
Pan cars are still 100 times better than TC's....
Pan cars are still 100 times better than TC's....
However, the great thing about this hobby is how people like different things.
Almost everybody I have met that preffered Pan over TC, the main reason for the dislike was setup and maintanence.
Two things of which I love about the hobby, regardless of the class.
#273
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
JKA: If you're at a National, that's hardly true. I've watched Mike Reedy build TRINITY motors for average Joes at races before. .......
JKA: If you're at a National, that's hardly true. I've watched Mike Reedy build TRINITY motors for average Joes at races before. .......
Fact is... the majortiy of racers will never meet these fine gentlemen.
Its a moot point though, originally purposed to imply that the Factory drivers will always have certain things that regular racers don't... in addition to talent of course.
#274
Tech Adept
So... I'm comming in late on this... but how is it that ROAR has allowed a motor to be run that does not meet even their own requirements for distribution? Apparently Jon Orr one 12th scale with a Sphere brushless system with a Reedy Neo One motor... but neither controler nor motor are ready for distribution yet.
Even in the recent rules adendum it stated that they had to be 300 ready at disturtibuters...
But then this is NOT the first time ROAR allowed equipment that was not ROAR legal to be run at a National event. If I'm not mistaken Trinity ran some GP cells at a National event a few years back before they were ever ROAR aproved...
Meanwhile... ROAR has time and time again shown a propencity to change the rules and/or disgregard their own rules on very short notice... Personaly I am surprized they have gotten away with it so often... I guess no one's ever cared enough to start a law suit, cause it would seem to be fairly be easy to win a law suit given that ROAR seem to have little regard for their own rules.
(meanwhile don't paint me as a brushless basher... I love brushless... I just don't understand how ROAR can continulely change or allow their own ruiles to be disregarded so frequently at National level events.)
Even in the recent rules adendum it stated that they had to be 300 ready at disturtibuters...
But then this is NOT the first time ROAR allowed equipment that was not ROAR legal to be run at a National event. If I'm not mistaken Trinity ran some GP cells at a National event a few years back before they were ever ROAR aproved...
Meanwhile... ROAR has time and time again shown a propencity to change the rules and/or disgregard their own rules on very short notice... Personaly I am surprized they have gotten away with it so often... I guess no one's ever cared enough to start a law suit, cause it would seem to be fairly be easy to win a law suit given that ROAR seem to have little regard for their own rules.
(meanwhile don't paint me as a brushless basher... I love brushless... I just don't understand how ROAR can continulely change or allow their own ruiles to be disregarded so frequently at National level events.)
#275
Tech Addict
The approval of brushless for open mod is a cataclysmic step in the worng direction for r/c.
Brushless motors are great, there advantages are well documented.
But they Absolutly must remain in there own class. Even in there own class it's extremly unfair because of there nature.
someones brushless system will always be better, Lrp now, maybe novak again, maybe tekin comes along and so on. The point is you are going to have to keep buying these new brushless systems to keep up with the jones's.
Then theres the damage it does to the independent motor manufactures. Most of whom can't afford to develop there own brushless motor systems.
It hurts the industry as a whole. It's the primary reason I will boycott roar events, the very body that runs the industry have deceided to blantenly hurt there industry. WHY????
It also makes my 100+ doller speed control, 50+ doller mod motors worthless???
leaving me to spend 200+ dollers on brushless systems, in which there will always be one better then the next. LRP, novak, tekin, orion, trinity, who knows, but little guys like fantom and others suffer.
allowing brushless in open mod is equilivant to having buggies run with Trucks, it's just plain dumb.
how do we fix this???
ROAR has slammed into the ground.
let them die.
Let the new NORRCA body take over and see if things can get better.
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
Brushless motors are great, there advantages are well documented.
But they Absolutly must remain in there own class. Even in there own class it's extremly unfair because of there nature.
someones brushless system will always be better, Lrp now, maybe novak again, maybe tekin comes along and so on. The point is you are going to have to keep buying these new brushless systems to keep up with the jones's.
Then theres the damage it does to the independent motor manufactures. Most of whom can't afford to develop there own brushless motor systems.
It hurts the industry as a whole. It's the primary reason I will boycott roar events, the very body that runs the industry have deceided to blantenly hurt there industry. WHY????
It also makes my 100+ doller speed control, 50+ doller mod motors worthless???
leaving me to spend 200+ dollers on brushless systems, in which there will always be one better then the next. LRP, novak, tekin, orion, trinity, who knows, but little guys like fantom and others suffer.
allowing brushless in open mod is equilivant to having buggies run with Trucks, it's just plain dumb.
how do we fix this???
ROAR has slammed into the ground.
let them die.
Let the new NORRCA body take over and see if things can get better.
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
Last edited by TCR; 03-21-2005 at 06:10 PM.
#276
Tech Champion
iTrader: (9)
Originally posted by TCR
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
#277
Last I checked, a lot of the companies are members.....and have been part of it for years...
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
#278
Tech Elite
iTrader: (12)
Originally posted by TCR
someones brushless system will always be better, Lrp now, maybe novak again, maybe tekin comes along and so on. The point is you are going to have to keep buying these new brushless systems to keep up with the jones's.
someones brushless system will always be better, Lrp now, maybe novak again, maybe tekin comes along and so on. The point is you are going to have to keep buying these new brushless systems to keep up with the jones's.
Our strive to make our cars faster will always push the development on new technology. I can tell you this- like it or not, LiPoly is coming. That means all your $80 battery packs will be worthless because even with a stock motor a LiPo battery will smoke a NiMH because of the extremely low IRs. The development of cut-offs and smart regulators along with smart chargers and on-board electronics to make the batteries safe for the typical r/c racer is already underway and in production. Right now there are companies doing field testing and fine tuning the batteries for introduction to r/c racing. You might hate this, but the fact is that combined with the control they have over brushless motors it will put the playing field at a much more even level for racing. Lipo's don't have the variance of cell quality like NiMH and NiCD chemistries do. That means your stock brushless motor and Jeff Cuff's motor and batteries will probably be quite even. Unfortunately, Jeff will still smoke me and probably you too..LOL
All I'm trying to say is can you take an original RC10 buggy and beat someone equivalent in driving skills as you running a BK2? No. Not even if you tuned on it for weeks. The newer technology sells because it works. If what you said is true, then why didn't brushless motored cars win in every race and all of them place better than the brushed motors?
#279
Tech Champion
iTrader: (9)
Originally posted by EddieO
Last I checked, a lot of the companies are members.....and have been part of it for years...
Later EddieO
Last I checked, a lot of the companies are members.....and have been part of it for years...
Later EddieO
For every company owner member there surely is a hundred odd racer members?
What is the total ROAR member base?
#280
I think it can be either way, but I am not sure....you would have to look it up.
Regardless though....their interests should be given just as much weight as anyone elses.....
Later EddieO
Regardless though....their interests should be given just as much weight as anyone elses.....
Later EddieO
#281
I think you are blowing the whole motor of the month thing out of proportion....
Reedy, has produced 4 modified motors in like 5 years.....
Orion, was pretty staple with their Core series for a while, then went to the V2, which has been a staple for over a year now....and from my understanding, they are not coming out with anything new soon in the modified motor arena....
Trinity, is usually about 1 new motor a year.....
Later EddieO
Reedy, has produced 4 modified motors in like 5 years.....
Orion, was pretty staple with their Core series for a while, then went to the V2, which has been a staple for over a year now....and from my understanding, they are not coming out with anything new soon in the modified motor arena....
Trinity, is usually about 1 new motor a year.....
Later EddieO
#282
Tech Champion
iTrader: (9)
Originally posted by EddieO
I think it can be either way, but I am not sure....you would have to look it up.
Regardless though....their interests should be given just as much weight as anyone elses.....
Later EddieO
I think it can be either way, but I am not sure....you would have to look it up.
Regardless though....their interests should be given just as much weight as anyone elses.....
Later EddieO
Therefore the sway the small tuners would hold would be minimal.
#283
Tech Elite
iTrader: (12)
Sorry Eddie- maybe I was a little over zealous. A couple new mod motors per year would be more accurate, but it still supports my point.
Don't get me wrong, as the owner of Team Brood it may hurt your business. I'm not neccessarily pro or con Brushless, just stating the obvious.
Don't get me wrong, as the owner of Team Brood it may hurt your business. I'm not neccessarily pro or con Brushless, just stating the obvious.
#284
Originally posted by Soviet
It's not the "brushed/old school" guys that are the problem, hell...they are the guys that MAKE the R/C scene what it is, a scene with alot of really great folks from many interesting backgrounds.
It's the fact that ROAR allows manufacturers vote on whats approved or not, the fact that tons of folks for a few years now have been trying to back the technology and ROAR and it's voting board (40% Trinity) have consistantly blocked brushless acceptance at every turn.
ROAR allows the manufacturers to determine the route of the hobby, thus giving companies the means to control how much WE need to spend.
THAT fact alone is the source of my anger. NORRCA really, and I mean really needs to actively attempt to compete with ROAR and bring a new breath of fresh air to this hobby. A new attitude and new rules with a new focus could really help the hobby.
ROAR isn't trying hard enough. Yet I'm a member now and was years ago, because they ARE the sanctioning body for nearly ALL racing in the United States.
It's a catch 22.
P.S. - My first RC car was a used Tamiya Hornet with Kyosho Javelin oil shocks. I think thats old school enough.
It's not the "brushed/old school" guys that are the problem, hell...they are the guys that MAKE the R/C scene what it is, a scene with alot of really great folks from many interesting backgrounds.
It's the fact that ROAR allows manufacturers vote on whats approved or not, the fact that tons of folks for a few years now have been trying to back the technology and ROAR and it's voting board (40% Trinity) have consistantly blocked brushless acceptance at every turn.
ROAR allows the manufacturers to determine the route of the hobby, thus giving companies the means to control how much WE need to spend.
THAT fact alone is the source of my anger. NORRCA really, and I mean really needs to actively attempt to compete with ROAR and bring a new breath of fresh air to this hobby. A new attitude and new rules with a new focus could really help the hobby.
ROAR isn't trying hard enough. Yet I'm a member now and was years ago, because they ARE the sanctioning body for nearly ALL racing in the United States.
It's a catch 22.
P.S. - My first RC car was a used Tamiya Hornet with Kyosho Javelin oil shocks. I think thats old school enough.
But because NOBODY (Novak, Orion, Trinity, Reedy, NOBODY) will submit a 19T or BL motor, EVERY motor EVERY system has to be an exception and when an exception that people don't like is made, people get upset.
I agree - a rule was not upheld. The system should have been one that was commercially available.
But let's lay this right where it belongs. . .
ROAR (and Norrca) have been making exceptions for YEARS. I've seen people running entire CARS that are/were not available and when any cameras came near - the towel went over the car. Commercially available? Heck no - that car doesn't even EXIST. . .it was all hand-machined and hand-made prototype. (Saw that happen at 2002 Norrca, btw.)
So now you get upset because another exception was made to allow LRP and Novak to run prototype BL systems.
You're right - it was not kosher and I don't think it should have been done.
But do you REALLY think that ROAR (or ANYONE) could get the manufacturers together to agree on ANYTHING (including who supplies the COFFEE for the meeting. . .)?
Come down off your planet, Soviet. . . come back to OURS. . .
#285
Originally posted by TCR
The approval of brushless for open mod is a cataclysmic step in the worng direction for r/c.
The approval of brushless for open mod is a cataclysmic step in the worng direction for r/c.
Y'all were happy about it a while ago - and it's not something isolated. ROAR is following IFMAR's lead, as is EFRA. . .
how do we fix this???
ROAR has slammed into the ground.
let them die.
Let the new NORRCA body take over and see if things can get better.
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
ROAR has slammed into the ground.
let them die.
Let the new NORRCA body take over and see if things can get better.
NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
Rules weren't made by members, they were made by:
Don Risner
Jimmy Babcock
Larry Mccaa
Dewayne Perry
Eric Anderson
Brian Mccal
That's a council of 6 people - hardly a rules committee that takes input from a lot of people.
On the other hand, ROAR has separate committees for nearly every type of racing - Fuel On-Road and Off-Road, Electric Oval, On-Road, Offroad, etc.
You want to go Norrca? Cool - been there and done that. Look at their rules - Spektrum radios aren't allowed for (no changeable frequency/channel. . .); no repeat concours winners? I've seen THAT one go by the wayside, personally (little hole supposed to be punched. . .not). 1,2,3 cars held in Tech after A-Main? Didn't happen in 2002. . .
But you think that they're better - cool. Give Don my regards. Make sure to take your ROAR card, you'll get a discount.