Tamiya F104 Version 2

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  • Pod Links
    What POD Side Links is everyone running? I have snapped 3 Tamiya's, trying Associated's now. The plastic seems better with the Associated. Anyone try the CRC carbon fiber links? Tamiya parts are hard to come by at the LHS. Associated and CRC are easy to come by.
  • I could use some ideas on how to get the car to work better with the new tires in higher grip asphalt conditions. So far when it gets hot and the grip is up I find my car loosing pace making it slower that my t-bar version. The general problem is that the front looks as though its being overloaded on entry making a heavy chatter sound. It also seems to loose low speed entry steering and feels bound up mid corner.


    In addition to the setup sheet attached I have tried going with the damper tube with 10 & 20K fluid. softer front spings(chatters more) harder front springs(cant handle the bumps), full size shock w/ yellow spring(smother over bumps but no change in problem area) and kit front tires(fixes binding and chatter problem but lacks steering from entry through exit)

    Any suggestions on how you get it to hook up on the hot days at tamiya would be appreciated

    Mark


  • Quote: I could use some ideas on how to get the car to work better with the new tires in higher grip asphalt conditions. So far when it gets hot and the grip is up I find my car loosing pace making it slower that my t-bar version. The general problem is that the front looks as though its being overloaded on entry making a heavy chatter sound. It also seems to loose low speed entry steering and feels bound up mid corner.


    In addition to the setup sheet attached I have tried going with the damper tube with 10 & 20K fluid. softer front spings(chatters more) harder front springs(cant handle the bumps), full size shock w/ yellow spring(smother over bumps but no change in problem area) and kit front tires(fixes binding and chatter problem but lacks steering from entry through exit)

    Any suggestions on how you get it to hook up on the hot days at tamiya would be appreciated

    Mark
    That setup sheet looks blank to me

    FMW says 577 Fr tires worked better at Tamiya when track temps were soaring into the 140's
    We almost always run silver front springs, except on rough or very high grip surfaces

    Pic of your car and setup might help
    My car never has chatter issues
    Are you sure your pod is setup correctly, do you use damper lube on the kingpins, Tamiya Med, or Hard should help ?
  • Quote: That setup sheet looks blank to me

    FMW says 577 Fr tires worked better at Tamiya when track temps were soaring into the 140's
    We almost always run silver front springs, except on rough or very high grip surfaces

    Pic of your car and setup might help
    My car never has chatter issues
    Are you sure your pod is setup correctly, do you use damper lube on the kingpins, Tamiya Med, or Hard should help ?
    Yep, I have been using tam med on the front kingpins and got some relief with hard as the grip increased. My setup differs from the one fred posted in that i was running med front springs, pink side springs and 600cst in the side damper and 2mm pod droop measured on blocks. My pod moves nice a free and the cars works very well in cooler conditions but at tamiya nats is was a pile once the sun came out. I was thinking maybe stiff center & side springs with extra heavy dampening may react more like the t-bar suspension and smooth the car out or do you think it would be better to work on a more aggressive chassis setup with kit fronts? Have you tried doing anything with the tires, inserts maybe? Is buggy grip the wrong sauce for the track?

    Mark
  • Quote: uprights: running alum middle hole, offset axle.

    I tired buggy grip from half to full and paragon half to 3/4 not much difference and it wore off quick

    I think the softer is my answer. I did not know which way to go(hard/soft)
    I am also going to try the CF rear axle.

    What do you think about .5 shim under upper front arm, rear?
    Adding shims to the rear ballstud will make the car turn harder mid corner.

    You may also want to use the inline axle setting, that will make the car turn off center. If you have that much traction the inline setting won't hurt you.

    One final note, if you can locate 6mm shims, widen the car at the rear axle. 1mm on each side will make the car turn in for sure.
  • Quote: Yep, I have been using tam med on the front kingpins and got some relief with hard as the grip increased. My setup differs from the one fred posted in that i was running med front springs, pink side springs and 600cst in the side damper and 2mm pod droop measured on blocks. My pod moves nice a free and the cars works very well in cooler conditions but at tamiya nats is was a pile once the sun came out. I was thinking maybe stiff center & side springs with extra heavy dampening may react more like the t-bar suspension and smooth the car out or do you think it would be better to work on a more aggressive chassis setup with kit fronts? Have you tried doing anything with the tires, inserts maybe? Is buggy grip the wrong sauce for the track?

    Mark
    That heat really played havoc with the new tires
    A friend of mine found that using Simple Green on his tires calmed the car down a lot

    Working in post tech I looked at every car, and was surprised by how different the setups varied, and yet how close on pace most cars were

    I'm thinking tire prep, along with esc & radio settings, were probably the most crucial difference, as there was no evidence of any one setup being superior to another

    Normally Buggy grip is the go on every outdoor track, in hindsight, it was probably making the front tires too soft for the conditions that weekend, though it did a great job on my RM-01, as I had awesome front bite all weekend

    I use the 571 & 572 inserts with every Shimizu tire combo
  • Quote: Yep, I have been using tam med on the front kingpins and got some relief with hard as the grip increased. My setup differs from the one fred posted in that i was running med front springs, pink side springs and 600cst in the side damper and 2mm pod droop measured on blocks. My pod moves nice a free and the cars works very well in cooler conditions but at tamiya nats is was a pile once the sun came out. I was thinking maybe stiff center & side springs with extra heavy dampening may react more like the t-bar suspension and smooth the car out or do you think it would be better to work on a more aggressive chassis setup with kit fronts? Have you tried doing anything with the tires, inserts maybe? Is buggy grip the wrong sauce for the track?

    Mark
    I noticed the first year I went out to the Tamiya track, all the F1 cars were chattering the front ends badly, but a lot of guys ran black springs since the cars were so loose on the old tires. The guy who won, Danny, had a lot of chatter in the front of his car, but it was fast.

    I have also used up to 120K diff oil on the front kingpins in super hot weather (99*F and 99% humidity, ugh). That was on a medium to high grip VHT track on the old tires. Somehow, I didn't think it would make a huge difference, but in reality not only did it make a huge difference in the hopping, the car was MUCH more responsive.

    One other thing I found at that same race was that the height of the ballstud for the shock on the pod is pretty sensitive. Lowering the ballstud will free the car up, and raising it will lock the car in. Maybe lowering your ballstud would help get the car freed up mid corner?
  • Quote: What POD Side Links is everyone running? I have snapped 3 Tamiya's, trying Associated's now. The plastic seems better with the Associated. Anyone try the CRC carbon fiber links? Tamiya parts are hard to come by at the LHS. Associated and CRC are easy to come by.
    I'm also interested before I run my car, to save time.
  • Quote: Something to try I guess, never felt balanced when i tried it

    Inline axles will add some steering too

    You may need to try some different tires, that's the biggest change, and most important
    578 may free the back up some ?

    What setup is killing you on entry ?

    can you post a pic of your car ?
    pics:







    The other guys wouldn't talk much I did see some computer searches for AE side springs, so maybe your idea is what they where doing.

    I like robk's idea of widening rear, as that is easy and I have the correct shims.
  • Help
    Hi Guys,
    I have read the article on tamiya web site regarding setting up vii,
    To my understanding the spring setting on the formula 1 car is different than on touring car like 417, which on touring the basic setting is using stiffer spring on the front then the rear......

    Is that correct, sorry I have been trying all different setup but none of them make the car run nice... My track is small indoor carpet, height traction but bumpy, so can you guys help me a little bit on the setup...

    Cheers
  • Quote:
    The other guys wouldn't talk much I did see some computer searches for AE side springs, so maybe your idea is what they where doing.

    I like robk's idea of widening rear, as that is easy and I have the correct shims.
    Have you checked the bumpsteer on the front of your car by cycling the front suspension with the tires on? You might need to get the inner ball studs lower
  • Quote: Hi Guys,
    I have read the article on tamiya web site regarding setting up vii,
    To my understanding the spring setting on the formula 1 car is different than on touring car like 417, which on touring the basic setting is using stiffer spring on the front then the rear......

    Is that correct, sorry I have been trying all different setup but none of them make the car run nice... My track is small indoor carpet, height traction but bumpy, so can you guys help me a little bit on the setup...

    Cheers
    What do you have on the car now?
  • Quote: Have you checked the bumpsteer on the front of your car by cycling the front suspension with the tires on? You might need to get the inner ball studs lower
    So I want to shim until NO bump steer at all, correct?
  • Quote: What do you have on the car now?
    My setup is black spring in front, yellow on side spring with 200 oil...
    Black spring with 900 oil on pitch damper
    Ride height 4,5 front and 6 on the back with droop 1 all around
    Using tamiya rubber soft on back and standart rubber in front

    Thanks
  • Quote: So I want to shim until NO bump steer at all, correct?
    yeah.

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