View Poll Results: what's your tire choice?
Protoform
46
30.67%
HPI
104
69.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll
4318LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2
06-18-2018, 10:14 AM
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
When they are broken in, they are comparable to the HPI tires. The problem is, it takes 3 or 4 races for them to be "broken in", vs HPI tires which were money the 1st race you put them on.
So that is a lot of "suckage" before becoming competitive.
We had the track up for 2 days this weekend, Saturday practice, Sunday Race. I worked with 2 racers new to VTA on Saturday, trying to get their cars to work on new tires. Both drivers were experienced, on a current and competitive chassis, but fairly new to on road racing. I watched them try all kinds of changes ( droop, springs, sauce, etc, ) and generally making small improvements, but still not being competitive. Finally on Saturday we put my race tires on one of the cars and it was 200% better.
I was also trying to break in a new set of tires this weekend, since my race set is near bald and will technically be illegal shortly. I did maybe 4 runs on Saturday, then a warm up run on Sunday - still massive suckage on the new tires. Pull the new tires off, put on the race set. I'm not sure what what causes the tires to start working - is it a mechanical break down, chemical break down or all of the above. I need to pull out both sets this week and ponder.
I'm concerned that the new tire syndrome will push new VTA drivers away - I've already seen a couple drop out. We had a 12 car main Sunday - about 1/2 were competitive on either HPI or PF tires, and the other 1/2 either new to the class or new to the PF tires and were skating around trying to stay out of the way of the rest of us.
So, that is why breaking in new VTA tires sucks.
So that is a lot of "suckage" before becoming competitive.
We had the track up for 2 days this weekend, Saturday practice, Sunday Race. I worked with 2 racers new to VTA on Saturday, trying to get their cars to work on new tires. Both drivers were experienced, on a current and competitive chassis, but fairly new to on road racing. I watched them try all kinds of changes ( droop, springs, sauce, etc, ) and generally making small improvements, but still not being competitive. Finally on Saturday we put my race tires on one of the cars and it was 200% better.
I was also trying to break in a new set of tires this weekend, since my race set is near bald and will technically be illegal shortly. I did maybe 4 runs on Saturday, then a warm up run on Sunday - still massive suckage on the new tires. Pull the new tires off, put on the race set. I'm not sure what what causes the tires to start working - is it a mechanical break down, chemical break down or all of the above. I need to pull out both sets this week and ponder.
I'm concerned that the new tire syndrome will push new VTA drivers away - I've already seen a couple drop out. We had a 12 car main Sunday - about 1/2 were competitive on either HPI or PF tires, and the other 1/2 either new to the class or new to the PF tires and were skating around trying to stay out of the way of the rest of us.
So, that is why breaking in new VTA tires sucks.
06-18-2018, 11:34 AM
What I have found on the PF tires for asphalt once they are at optimum performance the insert starts to break down and bunch up in the tire and cause a severe vibration. So the side walls need more flex or a much better I seen. I mentioned this to a racer I know and he said he uses HPI inserts so he doesn't have that problem.
06-18-2018, 12:27 PM
When they are broken in, they are comparable to the HPI tires. The problem is, it takes 3 or 4 races for them to be "broken in", vs HPI tires which were money the 1st race you put them on.
So that is a lot of "suckage" before becoming competitive.
We had the track up for 2 days this weekend, Saturday practice, Sunday Race. I worked with 2 racers new to VTA on Saturday, trying to get their cars to work on new tires. Both drivers were experienced, on a current and competitive chassis, but fairly new to on road racing. I watched them try all kinds of changes ( droop, springs, sauce, etc, ) and generally making small improvements, but still not being competitive. Finally on Saturday we put my race tires on one of the cars and it was 200% better.
I was also trying to break in a new set of tires this weekend, since my race set is near bald and will technically be illegal shortly. I did maybe 4 runs on Saturday, then a warm up run on Sunday - still massive suckage on the new tires. Pull the new tires off, put on the race set. I'm not sure what what causes the tires to start working - is it a mechanical break down, chemical break down or all of the above. I need to pull out both sets this week and ponder.
I'm concerned that the new tire syndrome will push new VTA drivers away - I've already seen a couple drop out. We had a 12 car main Sunday - about 1/2 were competitive on either HPI or PF tires, and the other 1/2 either new to the class or new to the PF tires and were skating around trying to stay out of the way of the rest of us.
So, that is why breaking in new VTA tires sucks.
So that is a lot of "suckage" before becoming competitive.
We had the track up for 2 days this weekend, Saturday practice, Sunday Race. I worked with 2 racers new to VTA on Saturday, trying to get their cars to work on new tires. Both drivers were experienced, on a current and competitive chassis, but fairly new to on road racing. I watched them try all kinds of changes ( droop, springs, sauce, etc, ) and generally making small improvements, but still not being competitive. Finally on Saturday we put my race tires on one of the cars and it was 200% better.
I was also trying to break in a new set of tires this weekend, since my race set is near bald and will technically be illegal shortly. I did maybe 4 runs on Saturday, then a warm up run on Sunday - still massive suckage on the new tires. Pull the new tires off, put on the race set. I'm not sure what what causes the tires to start working - is it a mechanical break down, chemical break down or all of the above. I need to pull out both sets this week and ponder.
I'm concerned that the new tire syndrome will push new VTA drivers away - I've already seen a couple drop out. We had a 12 car main Sunday - about 1/2 were competitive on either HPI or PF tires, and the other 1/2 either new to the class or new to the PF tires and were skating around trying to stay out of the way of the rest of us.
So, that is why breaking in new VTA tires sucks.
06-18-2018, 01:26 PM
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
06-18-2018, 01:41 PM
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,641
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
What happened to that magic shipment from Hpi that was going to save VTA?
Sorry couldn’t pass on that
Sorry couldn’t pass on that
06-18-2018, 02:40 PM
06-18-2018, 04:25 PM
What I have found on the PF tires for asphalt once they are at optimum performance the insert starts to break down and bunch up in the tire and cause a severe vibration. So the side walls need more flex or a much better I seen. I mentioned this to a racer I know and he said he uses HPI inserts so he doesn't have that problem.
For what it’s worth my PF tires are over a year old now (or close to that, got them as soon as they were put on sale by PF) and they are still going strong. So darn soft at this point they don’t even feel like they have inserts in them anymore.
Just stick to the rules people. It isn’t that difficult
Last edited by rgirocz28; 06-18-2018 at 04:44 PM.
06-18-2018, 05:58 PM
Tech Regular
PROTOform should've only offered the mounted VTA tires.
Best regards,
Brian
Best regards,
Brian
06-18-2018, 06:23 PM
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,641
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
06-18-2018, 07:25 PM
We also had a couple of experienced drivers running VTA for the first time and screaming bloody murder about how bad the tires were. Mine were money on the very first run.
They were experienced in running 25.5TC utilizing Sorex 28’s. They’re gotten so used to tires being good after the first break in run, and slot car like driving of TC with an underpowered motor, they couldn’t enjoy driving.
My laps were only .3 slower than the fastest laps of 25.5TC, but looked so much cooler than the slow slot cars.
Sp for guys struggling to get the tea “broke in” before race day, here is what I do.
1. Get a tire warmer. (Can he found for $50 on eBay)
2. Scuff the tire in a drill with some sand paper to remove the seam and to go up the surface.
3. Very liberals apply sxt 3.0 to the tires and let sit until dry.
4. Put in tire warmers at 170ish F for 10 minutes.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4, 4 or 5 times.
6. Enjoy your tires from the very first run
note: be cautious not to over sauce on race day. I only applied once about 20 minutes (just enough time to let dry) before race. Clean after race with non clorinated brake cleaner. Do not re sauce, do not store in bag. Do not use simple green. If using sxt3.0 max, use considerably less amount of traction compound and less time to soak.
I could probably get a bit more out of the tire, but it would cause three things: more swelling, traction rolling, and having to glue the sidewalls. I’d rather have a car just on the edge of loose, than fighting the random traction roll.
This process works well when wanting to use on asphalt as well. Might cycle a few more times to loosen up a tick more. Then don’t use any sauce on the track.
They were experienced in running 25.5TC utilizing Sorex 28’s. They’re gotten so used to tires being good after the first break in run, and slot car like driving of TC with an underpowered motor, they couldn’t enjoy driving.
My laps were only .3 slower than the fastest laps of 25.5TC, but looked so much cooler than the slow slot cars.
Sp for guys struggling to get the tea “broke in” before race day, here is what I do.
1. Get a tire warmer. (Can he found for $50 on eBay)
2. Scuff the tire in a drill with some sand paper to remove the seam and to go up the surface.
3. Very liberals apply sxt 3.0 to the tires and let sit until dry.
4. Put in tire warmers at 170ish F for 10 minutes.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4, 4 or 5 times.
6. Enjoy your tires from the very first run
note: be cautious not to over sauce on race day. I only applied once about 20 minutes (just enough time to let dry) before race. Clean after race with non clorinated brake cleaner. Do not re sauce, do not store in bag. Do not use simple green. If using sxt3.0 max, use considerably less amount of traction compound and less time to soak.
I could probably get a bit more out of the tire, but it would cause three things: more swelling, traction rolling, and having to glue the sidewalls. I’d rather have a car just on the edge of loose, than fighting the random traction roll.
This process works well when wanting to use on asphalt as well. Might cycle a few more times to loosen up a tick more. Then don’t use any sauce on the track.
06-18-2018, 07:26 PM
Just an off road racer here thinking of trying VTA or USGT with his old xxx-s here soon.....
Why not glue the inserts to the rim? A tiny bit of ca goes a long way into keeping things where they need to be.
Why not glue the inserts to the rim? A tiny bit of ca goes a long way into keeping things where they need to be.
06-18-2018, 08:25 PM
Brian didn't put HPI inserts in my PF tire so thanks for putting me on blast lol no I have the tires that have a hard spot in my tires. I'd rather run a car with a vibration then newer tires but I will perceiver. We only have 5 heat round with a 15 minute break between rounds it's hard for me to even get the tires sauced let alone get the warmers on them. Back when we had more racers 2 years ago I could get the warmers on. No excuses but we all want to make the class fun to get more racers now it's like work.
06-18-2018, 10:02 PM
Brian didn't put HPI inserts in my PF tire so thanks for putting me on blast lol no I have the tires that have a hard spot in my tires. I'd rather run a car with a vibration then newer tires but I will perceiver. We only have 5 heat round with a 15 minute break between rounds it's hard for me to even get the tires sauced let alone get the warmers on them. Back when we had more racers 2 years ago I could get the warmers on. No excuses but we all want to make the class fun to get more racers now it's like work.
My question about teching for the illegal inserts was a serious one. Do you have any ideas how we could even go about doing that without cutting into a tire?
06-19-2018, 05:54 AM
If there's a way to tech a glued tire (without cutting it) to check for the proper insert, I've not heard of it LOL! Your group certainly has the freedom to allow some options. I would find it highly unlikely that using an HPI insert in a PF tire is going to be the difference in anything noticeable on the track. From what I've seen, the insert doesn't matter. HPI wheels are allowed and I'm sure the statement of using the "insert provided" was made so racers don't attempt to add something (crazy) outside the norm. I'd almost be more worried about people attempting to possibly belt the tires to minimize the balloon effect, and you can't really tech for that either.
06-19-2018, 09:16 AM
once you have touched enough tires...you can feel the difference most of the time