New SPEC Class racing motor from EPIC/Trinity
#61
Tech Champion
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
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OK...I've been thinking (meaning board at work) and wouldn't it be MUCH easier for Trinity or ANY manufacturer just to release an end bell that we can retrofit onto our existing motors that sets timing to true zero? That would 1) make it easier for racers to move to a locked timing class if we need to, and 2) we won't be out the $70 to $90 dollars to buy a new motor. It's a much cheaper, quicker solution to the issue (if it is really an issue). Just applying a little Occam's razor...
#62
Tech Master
iTrader: (19)
This would really be cool "IF" other manufacturers decide they want to play too. Otherwise this discussion is a waste of O2.
Put some motor company gurus in a conference call, get them to set a spec for all. Write it down somewhere and go from there.
Good luck guys, I can't wait!
Put some motor company gurus in a conference call, get them to set a spec for all. Write it down somewhere and go from there.
Good luck guys, I can't wait!
#63
Tech Elite
iTrader: (96)
So much cheating in mind,... are you like serious !!!???
Though does any one know the exact dimension of these Spec Motors w/o the shaft, because i have a feeling I cant fit the motor LOL.
And even if this pics up the cheating will go on on a hacked ESC... like someone says prior ...
Though does any one know the exact dimension of these Spec Motors w/o the shaft, because i have a feeling I cant fit the motor LOL.
And even if this pics up the cheating will go on on a hacked ESC... like someone says prior ...
#64
Tech Master
iTrader: (8)
Its all going to come down to price....if Trinity or SP or who ever can get their locked timing motor to the market for about 35 dollars or less the same price and brushed motors they will win....and as a result on-road racing will win. How much will the retrofit parts cost? and really you are adding a part to a motor thats already used....it seems counter productive. It might be ideal if these new motors are going to the same price as adjustable motors 65+ dollars but if they are cheaper then its a moot point.
#65
Retro fits won't do much except lock the timing...doesn't help at all to mark the windings and lock the stator. Stator has to be locked or you could just twist it to get more timing, similar to cranking a comm....
I don't think Trinity is the bad guy in this whole brushless thing. If you go back and read their ad from long ago, pretty much everything they pointed out came to pass......if you want to point fingers, point them at the company who rigged the ROAR rules to their product.....most of the issues we have in brushless can be traced back to the original rules....
I dunno if trinity released a motor of the month.....we saw a whompin 3 19t motors (Chameleon, C2, Komodo)....stock motors was about 1 every year or so...here is the stock list
P2K Paradox 2k December 24, 1999
Green Machine 3 December 22, 2000
P2PK rebuildable stock October 22, 2001
Monster Horespower November 22, 2002
ROAR Stock(was two versions) June 4, 2004
CO27 February 27, 2006
X-Stock June 1, 2006
Mystery Stock July 1, 2008
So with the exception of 2006, never more than 1 motor in a year......the CO27 would of been 2005, but there was a delay in production which pushed it off until after snowbirds....pretty consistent....
Only difference now, is that instead of basically 1 motor company, you have 10.....which to choose? Choose the wrong one....out $75 instead of $35...new one comes out tomorrow....another $75 gone....different day, same story....
I am sure not in favor of sealed can stuff. Instead of just fixing a blown board or swapping out a rotor, you will be buying a whole new motor. Guys cherry picking stators and rotors will still happen, but I would rather you only had to buy 5 rotors and swap them, then having to buy 5 complete motors to find a good one.....
Timed brushes.....I love it. Timed brushes are a myth.....you guys play up the whole brushed motor voodoo things more than it was....
Timing can be effected the placement of the sensors and how they read.....there certainly will need to be a spec on how the sensors are mounted.
Personally, I like the new motors....
Later EddieO
I don't think Trinity is the bad guy in this whole brushless thing. If you go back and read their ad from long ago, pretty much everything they pointed out came to pass......if you want to point fingers, point them at the company who rigged the ROAR rules to their product.....most of the issues we have in brushless can be traced back to the original rules....
I dunno if trinity released a motor of the month.....we saw a whompin 3 19t motors (Chameleon, C2, Komodo)....stock motors was about 1 every year or so...here is the stock list
P2K Paradox 2k December 24, 1999
Green Machine 3 December 22, 2000
P2PK rebuildable stock October 22, 2001
Monster Horespower November 22, 2002
ROAR Stock(was two versions) June 4, 2004
CO27 February 27, 2006
X-Stock June 1, 2006
Mystery Stock July 1, 2008
So with the exception of 2006, never more than 1 motor in a year......the CO27 would of been 2005, but there was a delay in production which pushed it off until after snowbirds....pretty consistent....
Only difference now, is that instead of basically 1 motor company, you have 10.....which to choose? Choose the wrong one....out $75 instead of $35...new one comes out tomorrow....another $75 gone....different day, same story....
I am sure not in favor of sealed can stuff. Instead of just fixing a blown board or swapping out a rotor, you will be buying a whole new motor. Guys cherry picking stators and rotors will still happen, but I would rather you only had to buy 5 rotors and swap them, then having to buy 5 complete motors to find a good one.....
Timed brushes.....I love it. Timed brushes are a myth.....you guys play up the whole brushed motor voodoo things more than it was....
Timing can be effected the placement of the sensors and how they read.....there certainly will need to be a spec on how the sensors are mounted.
Personally, I like the new motors....
Later EddieO
#66
Company Representative
I don't think Trinity is the bad guy in this whole brushless thing. If you go back and read their ad from long ago, pretty much everything they pointed out came to pass......if you want to point fingers, point them at the company who rigged the ROAR rules to their product.....most of the issues we have in brushless can be traced back to the original rules....
But no one else did.
#67
Tech Master
iTrader: (8)
So not getting too far away from the OP or even the Trinity ad....these motors are meant for a handout motor not necessarily a class. And like you said we now have 10, or more, manufacturers making "good" motors. So using locked motors for the stock class may not solve much though. Won't there still be a difference in the performance of a locked motor to another? Quality of materials, manufacturing, rotor, strength, etc, etc, will still be huge factors. So after it's all said an done there will still be the search for the best, and someone will end up being better than the rest...won't they?
So then the argument will move to "I don't have the money to buy 5 motors, 10 rotors, a Gauss meter to find the best, that's why I'm slow!"
#68
#69
Company Representative
How about an inexpensive, tamper-proof, RPM Limiter module?
If limiting the motor's RPM is the goal, there's no need for a separate no-timing motor.
If limiting the motor's RPM is the goal, there's no need for a separate no-timing motor.
#70
Tech Addict
iTrader: (16)
I think ChrisP said it best.
The good old days of brushed 27t motors was not as good as everyone remembers. Sure the motors were cheaper but you had to constantly cut comm's and the was so much 'cheating' and optimization going on it rivals what someone can do with boost.
Will I buy the new motor? only if there is a class to support it, and honestly I am happier with the current no timing esc rules with a 17.5 BL. If my motor is a dud at least I cn adjust the timing a little to help tweak some performance in there . .. and from what our local club has seen racing is much closer and tight with just limiting the esc on it's own.
I have little to no faith that a 'spec' motor would work simply because we will see the tuning services come out of the wood work . . . and there will be some new 'magic' to pull out the last .001 of a percent of performance.
The good old days of brushed 27t motors was not as good as everyone remembers. Sure the motors were cheaper but you had to constantly cut comm's and the was so much 'cheating' and optimization going on it rivals what someone can do with boost.
Will I buy the new motor? only if there is a class to support it, and honestly I am happier with the current no timing esc rules with a 17.5 BL. If my motor is a dud at least I cn adjust the timing a little to help tweak some performance in there . .. and from what our local club has seen racing is much closer and tight with just limiting the esc on it's own.
I have little to no faith that a 'spec' motor would work simply because we will see the tuning services come out of the wood work . . . and there will be some new 'magic' to pull out the last .001 of a percent of performance.
#71
#72
Tech Elite
iTrader: (24)
IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
#73
Tech Addict
iTrader: (16)
I talked about this with some people at dinner one night at the Birds. I thint it might actually be the best option but until someone makes one and puts it to the test its just good in theory.
IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
I like this idea better than all the 'spec' motors, simply put spec motors sound good until we get tuned spec motors . . . and so on and so on.