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Old 02-18-2011, 10:17 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie View Post
OK...I've been thinking (meaning board at work) and wouldn't it be MUCH easier for Trinity or ANY manufacturer just to release an end bell that we can retrofit onto our existing motors that sets timing to true zero? That would 1) make it easier for racers to move to a locked timing class if we need to, and 2) we won't be out the $70 to $90 dollars to buy a new motor. It's a much cheaper, quicker solution to the issue (if it is really an issue). Just applying a little Occam's razor...
Its all going to come down to price....if Trinity or SP or who ever can get their locked timing motor to the market for about 35 dollars or less the same price and brushed motors they will win....and as a result on-road racing will win. How much will the retrofit parts cost? and really you are adding a part to a motor thats already used....it seems counter productive. It might be ideal if these new motors are going to the same price as adjustable motors 65+ dollars but if they are cheaper then its a moot point.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:22 AM   #62
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This would really be cool "IF" other manufacturers decide they want to play too. Otherwise this discussion is a waste of O2.

Put some motor company gurus in a conference call, get them to set a spec for all. Write it down somewhere and go from there.

Good luck guys, I can't wait!
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:40 AM   #63
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So much cheating in mind,... are you like serious !!!???

Though does any one know the exact dimension of these Spec Motors w/o the shaft, because i have a feeling I cant fit the motor LOL.

And even if this pics up the cheating will go on on a hacked ESC... like someone says prior ...
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #64
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Its all going to come down to price....if Trinity or SP or who ever can get their locked timing motor to the market for about 35 dollars or less the same price and brushed motors they will win....and as a result on-road racing will win. How much will the retrofit parts cost? and really you are adding a part to a motor thats already used....it seems counter productive. It might be ideal if these new motors are going to the same price as adjustable motors 65+ dollars but if they are cheaper then its a moot point.
Oh absolutely. And I'm ok with the locked motor. But if I have to go buy a new motor which is the exact same as the unlocked motor to run in a particular class, then just sell me an end bell. I mean a small parts kit (end bell and timing inserts) for the LRP X 12 is like $12. BUT if these new motors are dirt cheap and have other restrictions put on them then I'm ok with that too.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #65
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Retro fits won't do much except lock the timing...doesn't help at all to mark the windings and lock the stator. Stator has to be locked or you could just twist it to get more timing, similar to cranking a comm....

I don't think Trinity is the bad guy in this whole brushless thing. If you go back and read their ad from long ago, pretty much everything they pointed out came to pass......if you want to point fingers, point them at the company who rigged the ROAR rules to their product.....most of the issues we have in brushless can be traced back to the original rules....

I dunno if trinity released a motor of the month.....we saw a whompin 3 19t motors (Chameleon, C2, Komodo)....stock motors was about 1 every year or so...here is the stock list

P2K Paradox 2k December 24, 1999
Green Machine 3 December 22, 2000
P2PK rebuildable stock October 22, 2001
Monster Horespower November 22, 2002
ROAR Stock(was two versions) June 4, 2004
CO27 February 27, 2006
X-Stock June 1, 2006
Mystery Stock July 1, 2008

So with the exception of 2006, never more than 1 motor in a year......the CO27 would of been 2005, but there was a delay in production which pushed it off until after snowbirds....pretty consistent....

Only difference now, is that instead of basically 1 motor company, you have 10.....which to choose? Choose the wrong one....out $75 instead of $35...new one comes out tomorrow....another $75 gone....different day, same story....

I am sure not in favor of sealed can stuff. Instead of just fixing a blown board or swapping out a rotor, you will be buying a whole new motor. Guys cherry picking stators and rotors will still happen, but I would rather you only had to buy 5 rotors and swap them, then having to buy 5 complete motors to find a good one.....

Timed brushes.....I love it. Timed brushes are a myth.....you guys play up the whole brushed motor voodoo things more than it was....

Timing can be effected the placement of the sensors and how they read.....there certainly will need to be a spec on how the sensors are mounted.

Personally, I like the new motors....

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Old 02-18-2011, 11:06 AM   #66
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I don't think Trinity is the bad guy in this whole brushless thing. If you go back and read their ad from long ago, pretty much everything they pointed out came to pass......if you want to point fingers, point them at the company who rigged the ROAR rules to their product.....most of the issues we have in brushless can be traced back to the original rules....
I suppose that if some other electronics company (with the capability to design and mfg a BL motor) had invested the $$$, time, tooling and prototyping into a Brushless motor for R/C, their motor would have served as the standard.

But no one else did.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:13 AM   #67
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Retro fits won't do much except lock the timing...doesn't help at all to mark the windings and lock the stator. Stator has to be locked or you could just twist it to get more timing, similar to cranking a comm....
gotcha...


So not getting too far away from the OP or even the Trinity ad....these motors are meant for a handout motor not necessarily a class. And like you said we now have 10, or more, manufacturers making "good" motors. So using locked motors for the stock class may not solve much though. Won't there still be a difference in the performance of a locked motor to another? Quality of materials, manufacturing, rotor, strength, etc, etc, will still be huge factors. So after it's all said an done there will still be the search for the best, and someone will end up being better than the rest...won't they?

So then the argument will move to "I don't have the money to buy 5 motors, 10 rotors, a Gauss meter to find the best, that's why I'm slow!"
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:13 AM   #68
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Personally I would like to see sealed locked motors that you cannot cherry pick rotors and stators and combine them

This will eliminate the advantage ANYONE could have in buying a bunch of motors to "make" the best one.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:32 AM   #69
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How about an inexpensive, tamper-proof, RPM Limiter module?

If limiting the motor's RPM is the goal, there's no need for a separate no-timing motor.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:43 AM   #70
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I think ChrisP said it best.

The good old days of brushed 27t motors was not as good as everyone remembers. Sure the motors were cheaper but you had to constantly cut comm's and the was so much 'cheating' and optimization going on it rivals what someone can do with boost.

Will I buy the new motor? only if there is a class to support it, and honestly I am happier with the current no timing esc rules with a 17.5 BL. If my motor is a dud at least I cn adjust the timing a little to help tweak some performance in there . .. and from what our local club has seen racing is much closer and tight with just limiting the esc on it's own.

I have little to no faith that a 'spec' motor would work simply because we will see the tuning services come out of the wood work . . . and there will be some new 'magic' to pull out the last .001 of a percent of performance.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:50 AM   #71
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Timed brushes.....I love it. Timed brushes are a myth.....you guys play up the whole brushed motor voodoo things more than it was....
What's a myth? I made them, ran them and won with them back in my oval days
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:59 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
How about an inexpensive, tamper-proof, RPM Limiter module?

If limiting the motor's RPM is the goal, there's no need for a separate no-timing motor.
I talked about this with some people at dinner one night at the Birds. I thint it might actually be the best option but until someone makes one and puts it to the test its just good in theory.

IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:15 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I talked about this with some people at dinner one night at the Birds. I thint it might actually be the best option but until someone makes one and puts it to the test its just good in theory.

IT would allow everyone to tune somewhat with timing on the motor and change how the power comes on but it would limit the total amount of power. Great in theory but until its tested its just that a theory.
I think that is about the only device I think would work . . . at least until someone figures out how to hack one

I like this idea better than all the 'spec' motors, simply put spec motors sound good until we get tuned spec motors . . . and so on and so on.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:21 PM   #74
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Timed brushes.....I love it. Timed brushes are a myth.....you guys play up the whole brushed motor voodoo things more than it was....
I don't know where you raced but timed brushes were a reality, as were magnet zappers, com twisting and the like.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:34 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by NovakTwo View Post
How about an inexpensive, tamper-proof, RPM Limiter module?

If limiting the motor's RPM is the goal, there's no need for a separate no-timing motor.
Something you can put inline with the sensor harness, maybe? How would it be powered?

I like the idea of this motor. I hope it, or something like it works. Things are a bit unruly at the moment.
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