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-   -   New SPEC Class racing motor from EPIC/Trinity (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/483242-new-spec-class-racing-motor-epic-trinity.html)

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 01:41 PM

New SPEC Class racing motor from EPIC/Trinity
 
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Just wanted to see what you guys thought of this new offering from EPIC/Trinity. No flaming or bashing...just honest opinions good and bad of the idea and possible class.

EA

SteveP 02-17-2011 01:45 PM

In essence, that's similar to what ROAR is considering for the 2012 spec. We need stock motors again. When we contacted them regarding our discussion, they indicated that they were already working on something similar. IMHO, this is to brushless what the P2K and Chameleon motors were to brushed motor racing, which is something that I think is needed to bring some parity back to stock class racing.

KO PROPO Staff 02-17-2011 01:50 PM

Sounds like a good idea. So is the motor timing set to? Est street price?

skypilot 02-17-2011 01:50 PM

IMO, seems silly to have a "no timing" class yet allow me to run a motor that i can twist the timing on. so I don't have a problem with it, I promoted locally the SP spec system until it was pointed out that what I thought was a locked motor wasn't.

any idea of where the timing is locked on these motors, I believe the older SP motors i have were around 12 or 13 degrees and i have a couple still NIP

whats funny is I was just talking to a friend this morning about making a post and predating it from like 3 years ago, and repeat the silly stuff I said about how much easier life and racing is going to be with brushless motors and everyone being all equal and stuff.:lol:

wingracer 02-17-2011 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by skypilot (Post 8668935)
whats funny is I was just talking to a friend this morning about making a post and predating it from like 3 years ago, and repeat the silly stuff I said about how much easier life and racing is going to be with brushless motors and everyone being all equal and stuff.:lol:

In my opinion, it is. Sure the fast guys are still fast and the slow guys are still slow (and nothing will ever change that) but the difference is less and the learning curve smaller now, IMO.

PitNamedGordie 02-17-2011 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by EAMotorsports (Post 8668896)
Just wanted to see what you guys thought of this new offering from EPIC/Trinity. No flaming or bashing...just honest opinions good and bad of the idea and possible class.

EA

I have an honest question for you as a tuner. Will you be offering tuned versions of these?

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by SteveP (Post 8668920)
In essence, that's similar to what ROAR is considering for the 2012 spec. We need stock motors again. When we contacted them regarding our discussion, they indicated that they were already working on something similar. IMHO, this is to brushless what the P2K and Chameleon motors were to brushed motor racing, which is something that I think is needed to bring some parity back to stock class racing.

Steve good to see you on here! Yea I know we talked about it as a class. Just wanted to get some public feedback too and see what the racers think about it.


Originally Posted by KO PROPO Staff (Post 8668934)
Sounds like a good idea. So is the motor timing set to? Est street price?

Hey Robert,

Timing is set to true zero I "think" but I'll have to get an official answer from Dieter or Ernie. Street price that we talked about at the birds was a bit less than what we have now but once again I'll have to ask for the official answer from them.

EA

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by PitNamedGordie (Post 8668977)
I have an honest question for you as a tuner. Will you be offering tuned versions of these?

I dont claim to tune the motors now. I just go through them, check stators and rotors, ensure everything is working as it should, dyno them and do a few small things that help performance.

These motors have no timing adjustments. No rotors to try. There will still be differences in motor build but to be honest I dont think it will be much. When you take away the timing it generally equalizes out even more. The differences in most motors is the sensor board. So other than putting them on a dyno and checking the rotor to see how strong it is there is not a lot to do really. So in the end not sure if it would be worth it or not and if "Tuners' start buying them and marking them through the ROOF like some do then the cost savings are gone.

EA

wingracer 02-17-2011 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by EAMotorsports (Post 8668984)
Hey Robert,

Timing is set to true zero I "think" but I'll have to get an official answer from Dieter or Ernie. Street price that we talked about at the birds was a bit less than what we have now but once again I'll have to ask for the official answer from them.

EA

Maybe you can answer this question. Is that timing point (or whatever point the ruling bodies decide on) an easily and accurately manufactured and tested thing?

With brushed motors, timing was an actual physical thing that could be measured but that doesn't seem to be the case with brushless. If I am a manufacturer and the rule states that the motors have to be zero timing (or whatever) in physical relationship between the sensor and the stator, I'm just going to make a sensor that reads as early as possible so my motors run faster and therefore sell more.

Or is there some other way to work such a rule?

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by wingracer (Post 8669010)
Maybe you can answer this question. Is that timing point (or whatever point the ruling bodies decide on) an easily and accurately manufactured and tested thing?

With brushed motors, timing was an actual physical thing that could be measured but that doesn't seem to be the case with brushless. If I am a manufacturer and the rule states that the motors have to be zero timing (or whatever) in physical relationship between the sensor and the stator, I'm just going to make a sensor that reads as early as possible so my motors run faster and therefore sell more.

Or is there some other way to work such a rule?

Timing on the sensor board is just like a brushed motor was but the difference is that you cant see the slots on the rotor like you could the comm on a brushed motor. The slot now is in the stator instead. You can measure them based off the stator and I have a Jig already made to check the Novak motors. Working on having some others made for D3 style motors too. This will allow me to check all my motors at the exact same timing to see the difference in the mechanical components of the motor and know where to gear if I go to a different motor.

Is it easy to measure not that I know of but it can be done. There may be easier ways that I am unaware of as I am not that technically savvy with them. Now get me in a GM car and I can make anything work on that! LOL

EA

theisgroup 02-17-2011 02:15 PM

if we are going spec racing, then i like the idea of a locked timing motor. i would like to see this extend to just like the brush days. put a limit on the cost and make spec races a handout motor with a limit on the number of motors a racer can purchase at a race.

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 02:17 PM

This is a quote from Ernie about the release of the motor.

"STOP THE INSANITY!
To all concerned R/C Partners:
We are going to be releasing the "Monster Lock" sometime in March....I believe it is the biggest break-through in R/C motor technology for the better since Trinity releases the "rebuildable" stock motor.

Brushless racing for spec class is out of control and although brushless may have helped entry level it has all but destroyed the "SPEC" racing sector due to the speed controllers impact on timing and the ability (cheating ability) to dissect these motors and actually rewind them!

We can debate who was right between Novak and Trinity for years....Brushless versus brushed but the facts remain....All motors are not the same and we have MUCH MORE CHEATING in brushless than we ever had in brushed motors.

This is the first brushless motor to basically try to eliminate this......
Features:
Longer shaft so tech inspectors can easily see rotors have not been changed
Stator LOCK so no twisting is ever possible
Epoxied wires in place so no more winding and rewinding can go un-noticed to any tech-inspector regardless of his experience etc etc.

It is something that I strongly believe in and when matched with 1 or 2 reputable speed control manufacturers "who feel the same" could eliminate the issues we have and hopefully lead our hobby back in the right direction of growth.

The key now is to get people behind it, talk about it, get people involved and promote the concept!

I have spoke to R.O.A.R. at length about this and I feel they see the need and are behind the concept.

We will have a hand-out program available to clubs and shop-owners who have tracks so we can supply a "HAND-OUT" motor to these race events. Talk has also been started about doing something with ROAR about hand-out classes at National events.

I am now asking for all of your help.....

Again this is not a project Trinity is going to make money on in the short-term because we are producing a motor which COSTS more but we will SELL FOR LESS in order to secure a future. Its now time ONCE AGAIN for everyone to step forward and put their "MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS"

Thanks
Ernie
Trinity Products Inc.
Chief Executive Officer"

L.Fairtrace 02-17-2011 02:17 PM

FTW

wingracer 02-17-2011 02:17 PM

But from what I understand, sensors can "read" differently. Some may read the same as physical position but if another "triggers" five degrees early, that motor will have five degrees of timing even though it's physical position is zero.

EAMotorsports 02-17-2011 02:19 PM


Originally Posted by wingracer (Post 8669070)
But from what I understand, sensors can "read" differently. Some may read the same as physical position but if another "triggers" five degrees early, that motor will have five degrees of timing even though it's physical position is zero.

That part of it is over my head to be honest with you. Thats for the Tech director to understand! LOL Not dodging an answer for you just being honest.

EA


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