I searched and searched for the OP where you recommend changing the suspension pin mounts and cannot find it. What advantage do you see in changing from the single piece suspension pin mounts to the two piece mounts? Is the chassis already drilled for this?

Thanks

the reason i changed was because i seriously bent the stock one after a bad crash... just feel the split type pin mounts are sturdier and more resistant to getting bent. i also tend to think that it gives a bit more flex to the chassis for more traction (but that's just me and i'm not sure if there's any truth to it).

this is the part you're looking for (separate suspension mounts):
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=54174
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=54172


yes, the chassis already has the holes drilled.

I use those in my 416 and the car felt like it had more steering at my tracks

Cool. Thanks.

I already have some for my TA-05 v2 so this will be an easy thing to do if I bend one.

Well it looks like I don't need to ponder it anymore, the wife and kiddies surprised mr today with a 417 :)

Since Im looking at touring cars the 416x caught my eye, because
It's older and uses Nimh cells. This one is more advanced for Lipo use.
Have you felt a difference between the 2 cars?

Im expecting the 416 to drop in price since the new one is out.

there should be a few 416X for sale, I Just build 417 and its nice, but you can get the lipo chassie for the 416 also, so if want to save money get the
416 if not just get the 417

Ah, just built this car (thanks, Speedtech!） It's my first TRF car other than the 201. It's super nice!

Just had a couple of questions for you guys.

Anyone have any good tips for cutting down the ball cups for the roll bars? When I just cut down with a knife, they always come out crooked and fugly (on my TA05 too) Also, the manual doesn't say...how long do you make the roll bar turnbuckles? Does it matter that much?

When screwing the steering bridge (BB20) to the steering arms (BB21) it binds up unless I leave them loose (too loose for my liking). Any tips on this?

Thanks guys!:blush:

For cutting the turnbuckles, nothing beats a fresh new razor. That's key.

Yes, height matters for the sway bar links. After build and setting ride height, you want them to be holding the sway bar level.

If the steering bridge is binding, you didn't use enough shims. Look at the manual again... You use 2 different shims, and multiple of each.

Hope that helps.

Setup/build suggestions
 

I'm picking up one of these bad boys this week and was wondering what building or setup suggestions you guys might have. Looking for a carpet setup and running on APS-28r by Panorama.


Cheers.

Edward Pickering

had a similar problem... ended up using flat head screws instead of the round head ones...

You lucky lucky man! :eek: Any woman I've ever been involved with can never understand this obsession with toy cars, let alone going and buying one for me..!! :D
Enjoy the build, mine should be here next week :)

Agree on the sway bar point, although after it's on the car, you want to test that it's not tweaked, so you can adjust the turnbuckles to resolve this. It gets a little complicated, as you want to make sure your droop is set correctly first, but David Jun had some good advice on this topic...
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=405

So tweaking the little turnbuckles can remove any tweak from the bar.

On a side note, I'm (slowly) trying to update my site to add in new bits for the 417... I've made it a little more generic (so each of the past TRF's has it's own sub-sections). Feel free to add things in as people learn the car :)

Oh and regarding setup's, I got the following from Elliott;
I think kit setup will be good yeah, but we use 4mm rear wheelbase shim, 450 shock oil and if the traction is not super high, 4.5 front camber link shim and 3.5 rear.
Generally on Carpet I prefer to use the ball diff with the Gear diff on Asphalt


HiH
Ed

Thanks for the advice! As it turns out, like a moron, I had the steering bridge upside down...DOH!:weird:

Thanks Ed! I gots lots to learn on this subject!

"To set them, slowly compress either arm as you watch the other to see the amount of free play before the opposite arm rises. More than likely, one side will have more free play than the other so you want to adjust the length of the linkage rods accordingly until the amount of free play is equal. You can also adjust the free play on the sway bar mounts as well by rotating the sway bar clips enough to reduce slop."

Not sure I full understand how this part works. How do you measure accurately the "free play?" And so if one side has more free play than the other, what do you do to the turnbuckles? Finally, "rotating the sway bar clips?" Whazzat?:weird:

Hehe, it's easier to do than to write about ;)

What I do is as follows;
Firstly, make the roll bar links all the same length.
Then mount up the bars, and using the grub screws in the mounts, and the adjustment collars, take up as much of the free play so that the bar can move freely in the mounts, but is not tight. Just got to use your best judgement here (wiggle it lots :lol:)
Pop the links onto the arms, and with the shocks off set the droop on the arms using a droop gauge (I know that 5F and 4R on a gauge is a pretty good place to start).
Then using the droop gauge, push one of the arms up until the opposite arm starts to raise. Easy way to spot this is by "tapping" the opposite arm, if you can tap the arm down onto the droop screw, then it's lifted ;)
Note the number on the gauge that the arm raised at, and repeat for the opposite side, and note the number. (For example, on my 416x in front of me, with droop set to 4, the arms start "tapping" at 7 on the gauge)

Now, if it's different side to side, you need to lengthen or shorten one of the links. If the right side raises on a lower number, then you need to either shorten the right hand link, or lengthen the left (and Vice-versa obviously!).

Just take your time with it when you first do it, and have a play to see how only a small adjustment can make a difference, as usually it only needs a small amount on the turnbuckle to work. If you find you need a lot, the bar itself may not be flat, so take it out the car and (gently) try to bend it flat, then repeat :)

HiH
Ed

Hopefully the following picture helps... right arm at this point has started to raise (note 8 on the gauge).

I finally got a chance to start my build this morning. There are some really nice refinements to this kit. The changes to the bulkheads and the center pulley are just great.

Those who have driven and tested the 417, can you guys confirm that it has same turning radius left and right? I had this problem which I could not get rid off when I had my 416WE and 416X. Both of 'em will make a tighter left turn than the right. Yes I have checked the chassis tweak, suspension tweak, stabilizers and weight balance for dozens of times, I also set the steering throw equally on my Hudy station (28degs full lock) and set the servo saver arm (90degs) perpendicular to the steering tie rod. Non of 'em solve the problem. I m not the only one with this issue, all of my friends who drive 416we-x also have the same issue. Last carpet meet with high traction, the car would traction roll only to the left corners. I m hopping the 417 do not have this issue.

As far as I know, it is quite normal for a car to not turn the same amount to both sides. You just adjust out the difference with EPA (lower EPA to the side that turns more).

Every car I've ever owned has been that way. I just adjust EPA until it feels right on the track. There's too many other things to worry about with RC cars.

Erm is there a strap to holddown the lipos or should I use tape? If so whats the part no for the blue tamiya tape?

Oh an will most hardcase liPos fit?

Cheers

Use Tape....

"Xenon" Blue Battery Tape 50m x 17mm - PAT-0222 ;)

+1... never go by the Hudy setup station.. also go by what the car does on the track.

Agreed on the steering setup... final check always on track with the foot method... ;)

However, one way to reduce the difference as much as possible is put the car on the setup station, and then play with a combination of subtrim and drag link length between the servo and steering. Ideally, the servo horn should be at 90° to the drag link when centred for equal throw, not vertical (hence why the instructions say for the horn to be off centre by 5°).

Then steer left and right with a toe gauge attached to get max left and max right lock. When close by setting subtrim and link length, then go to the EPA adjustment.
By this method, never need more than a couple of percent adjustment on EPA when checked on the track :)

HiH
Ed

I'm looking for a part number for the shock o ring used on the 415/416 (417 ?) I'm assuming they are the same for all three (?).
Thanks.

Blue Sliontec Tape

53574

:smile:

Thanks again !

ok so your saying it should be straight up and down or 5 degrees tword the center??

Here is the Tamiya article that David wrote, complete with pictures:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/fe...article-id=413

I donno if others noticed this, but I find the Sliontec tape (ie TOP Racing packaged) to separate easily between the top coloured layer and the actual fiber strand adhesive below it.

Everytime I peel a new piece, the first cm of tape would be messed up if I dont fold a tab on a previous cut. Same for removal, strands get torn off and stays on the surface if you dont fold a tab on the ends. (Although i always do anyways, its just nice if the tape doesnt do that)

Does anyone know of an alternative that doesnt do this?

Man, even after reading this twice I still missed it.

Good advice - this is exactly the way to do it. I'm at epa 114L/115R car needs little or no adjustment on track

I tend to leave my battery in the car for long periods. Just charge it in the car between heats. So, on my last car, I used Parma double sided servo tape to attach the battery to the chassis. This is the clear gooey stuff that is easy to remove. I never had an issue with the battery shifting or coming lose and it allows enough movement that it doesn't noticeable effect chassis flex. When you do need to remove the battery for maintenance, it removes cleanly. Give it a try.

I don't recommend you do this if you change batteries often though.

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...nid=395&id=872

It should be 5° towards the centre of the car. Making a 90° angle with the link.
Have a look at this link, Hara's build guide to the cyclone. Want to achieve the same effect on the 417 when the link is in the centre, but due to the steering setup, need to cant the servo horn into the centre of the car.

http://www.hpiracing.co.jp/contents/...yclone03.htm#2

HiH
Ed

Post 423 = "Xenon" Blue Battery Tape 50m x 17mm - PAT-0222

Fold the tape over and stick it together after you cut it, then you will stop any waste. :deathstar

This is by far the best strapping tape I've ever used. And it's about half the price as most colored tapes out there!

http://www.nexusracing.com/product_i...products_id=49

I'll give that a try. It specifically states that it doesnt separate :nod:

No big deal really, just a pita if I have to fold it every time like I do now.

BTW Xenon and TOP carries the same tape, Sliontec.

If you don't mind it being ugly, the I.R.S. tape is the best I've ever used. It's got filaments going in both directions, so it won't tear length wise, and it stays sticky for quite a while.

http://www.teamirsrc.com/misc.html
IRS2202

It's Scotch 8959 Bi-Directional Filament (19mm wide), but I can't seem to find anywhere to buy it in anything but bulk, so I just pay the IRS price.