I would like to run 17.5 stock as well...in RCGT form...which is what I already do against the TC class...but like any class, we have rules...and they are 21.5 motors with ROAR or USVTA esc....so I put my 21.5 stator back in my car and Im getting ready for the Nats...that simple...

the rules are what they are...and upward knows I dont always agree with Rob...but its the National rules , and I travel...so its better for everyone in the long run...

and as far as fast?....it depends..some ppl running 17.5 TC with non boosted need to be in VTA...and barely USGT...just a fact:batman:

also its NOT RCGT...its USGT....

So you don't know if HPI just never updated their website to allow boost in RCGT, or when non boosted 17.5s became to fast for people?

I'm all for rules but I will be sticking with RCGT since it makes no sense for me to go out & purchase a 21.5 motor, & it's basically the same class.

Not sure about your fact since it didn't quite make sense to me, maybe someone else understood what you were getting at. Oh & I know that it's USGT, that's what the thread title says it is.

Just re-read this.....Damn you said it good !!!!

Many people would argue that 27t "stock" motors had become too fast, as it was. Stock class (on road) stopped being an entry level class about 15 years ago.

I'll give you that, people love to argue.:lol: Some of the original ideas for this class was to keep 17.5 non boosted from RCGT. Someone brought up that RCGT became boosted, my question is when did this happen & or is it that HPI just did not update their website to reflect this. Robk said that was the reason why he wanted 21.5.

I think you'll find that RCGT is basically a dead issue. The program was the brain child of Andy H at HPI and a few folks in the California rc community. Once that association fell apart , RCGT just languished and continues to do so. Highly doubtful you'll see any update to the rules since RCGT barely exists anywhere , much less in it's original California birth place.

Doug, & RobK. I know that it has been three years since I was this guy. (Please see paragraph above) Somehow I feel a fresh need to apologize for it. All I can say is that I am glad that its someone else giving you the attitude and not me.

I am not saying that a little rule bending for a local club race is not ok. I really think that its not a big deal if Joes Shade Tree Racing club in BFE wants to allow Corvette, Pantera or even 2010 Camaro's in VTA, or if they run an overall hybrid of VTA and RCGT rules, but the purpose of a National rule set is uniformity and continuity from Club to club, state to state and it looks like maybe even internationally. That rule set serves as a standard. It says that if I prep my car this way, then I can go here, here, or there and my car will be legal and competitive. I thank you for that standard of rules, and for the tough changes you have made to it through the years.(VTA and now USGT) I know that the rule changes have often passed like kidney stones. I think the USGT is a great idea and a great chance of capturing what HPI had in mind when they launched the RCGT format.

I think part of the reason for USGT to be non boosted 21.5 is to give a natural progression up the power level.

VTA 25.5 non boost Vintage bodies
USGT 21.5 non boost Modern GT bodies
Stock TC 17.5 non boost TC bodies
Expert Stock TC 17.5 boost TC bodies

Makes sense to me and gives structured classes that anyone can find a place to race in. Also gives consistency between tracks.

Why 21.5? Everyone was burning the tires off the cars in a rapid fashion with boost and 17.5. Even spec 17.5 is not going to get any slower.

Just go and find some of the old RCGT threads or some of the California racing threads from a year ago. RCGT was white hot for a minute and then it all went away.

Its a good formula Rob. I know you dont need me to tell you to stick to your guns, but you are not wrong. Besides there are plenty of ways to splatter a $500 piece of carbon fiber without adding this one to it.

Kent, it's all good. I think after you see the trends come and go and watch wave after wave of new product for almost 3 decades in this hobby, you get a perspective on R/C racing as a hobby that few people really understand. Rob and I have been collectively racing these stupid things for more than 50 years combined! Stuff comes and goes and speeds increase to the point that few can really drive them well, and yet people wonder why there are so few new racers, or why on road racing seems to be floundering.

I know it sounds grumpy to wax rhapsodic about the "good old days," but there was something really appealing about going to a race with 3 or 4 classes (or even TWO!), and knowing that the car you are bringing to the track was not only legal everywhere in the country, but that your class would be full down to the G or H mains—or even further! It was something to start at the bottom and gradually improve enough to move up to the B or C mains, and then get yourself into the A in Stock class at the local race track. It took a lot of practice and work, and it wasn't easy—but it sure felt good.

Today, most people would rather be in the A main, even if there were only 5 cars in their class. It just doesn't make sense to me why people would want so many classes to spread out small car counts to virtually nothing across the board. I really missed those days of 65 cars in 1/12th stock and 45 in 1/12th mod at the local club track. VTA really brought back a LOT of that 1987 feel to racing again for me, and a lot of other people—which is why it has been so popular for the last few years.

I think a race day with VTA, USGT and Pro Rubber (17.5t boosted) could bring all of that feeling back to on road racing if it was done correctly, and I really do believe that Rob has the right concept going with the Scale Nationals format this year.

I think if more people could get to run in a class with 30, 40 or 50+ cars each race day, they probably wouldn't be so concerned with rules minutiae and would just focus on racing, having fun and getting better.



That's just me, though. ;)

Driver Qual# Laps Race Time Round Race Pos in Race Fast Lap
Barry, Josh 22 6:17.031 2 6 1 16.235
Bray, Steve 21 6:03.665 2 7 1 16.787
Smith, mike 21 6:10.295 2 7 2 16.601
Barnes, Charlie 21 6:10.375 2 7 3 16.326
Le, Calvin 21 6:15.860 2 7 4 16.651
Miller, Randy 20 6:02.324 1 6 2 16.968
McBeth, Jim 20 6:04.516 1 6 3 16.866
Vargen, Glenn 20 6:16.382 1 7 3 18.032
Criger, Lee 19 6:02.505 2 6 3 17.488
Scheumaker, Mike 19 6:17.944 1 6 4 18.188

This is the top ten after two rounds at our track in Camarillo, Ca last Sunday.
This shows a great mix of drivers some of whom have been racing for 30+ years and some who have only raced for 2 years. The top three ran Solaris spec tires 4 and 5 ran X-pattern tires, I think the rest also ran Solaris tires.
21.5 non-boosted is working at our track. I almost forgot to mention that there was a 7 car B-Main :)

One of the reasons I love this thread and the USVTA thread is the depth of knowledge, experience and insight that gets passed along. Squarehead makes some good points but I feel the need to expand on it a bit.

Today, racing is pretty expensive. It's tough to get someone to drop $500-$1000 to get started in what is essentially grown men playing with toy cars. Numbers are down at many tracks and race directors are trying to make it easy for people to get on the track with minimal expense. To that end, tracks do stuff like "three cars makes a class." As soon as you open it up like this, the classes are going to get diluted. Everyone who has a "better" idea will talk up his idea with other racers in an attempt to get two more people to run what he wants to run. I know. I've done it. This solution is a double edged sword. It does get people on the track but it also results in the situation that Squarehead waxes on about.

I have a full scale dirt track near my house. I spend most of my Friday nights in the summer there. They have four classes. It's been that way for ever. The rules change when needed to keep things safe but for all practical purposes, they are the same as they were 30 years ago. The most popular class is Modified. The drivers will tell you that what they love about it is that the rules never change so they know what to expect and they don't have to go out and buy new stuff all the time. Also, they can take their car to any track and race it.

Our race directors have to run their tracks like this. You guys know what works and what doesn't work yet you allow the new guys to decide what happens at your track. Be the benevolent dictator. Come up with some classes and stick with them. This is just about perfect!

VTA 25.5 non boost Vintage bodies
USGT 21.5 non boost Modern GT bodies
Stock TC 17.5 non boost TC bodies
Expert Stock TC 17.5 boost TC bodies

Now, racers can use it like a menu. They can look at the rules, their equipment, skill level and financial situation and decide what classes to run. If they decide to visit another track, they know their car is legal there.

I admire how Robk runs USVTA and USGT. His attitude seems to be "I know what's best for this class and these rules are the rules, deal with it." It may seem kind of harsh but in the long run it's good for all of us. If more race directors did the same thing, I think we could get back to those "good old days."

Well Ive finished my USGT car...again....rebuilt my TC5r 17.5 car....got the GTB2 installed, put 21.5 stator in, and put the cheaper HPI pre-mounts x-patterns on...now lets go race it .....

FYI...the GTB2...took just as much space as the Tekin I removed...no adjustments on the chassis other than wire..and the smaller cap is great too

23 entries in Super GT+ at our regular club race last Sunday. 21.5 GT racing is taking hold!