TC4 RTR, Tips and Tricks for Stock, Etc.
07-03-2010, 07:43 PM
#46
Thanks Dave, that's what I thought. I have a FT spool infront of my sons TC4 with the steel outdrives in the rear. Just can't remember if they are lightweight or not.
If it's possible, do you think you could help me make his car easier to drive for him one of these days? It's set up to the one setup sheet from T.A. with CS-27 tires & outdoor.
If it's possible, do you think you could help me make his car easier to drive for him one of these days? It's set up to the one setup sheet from T.A. with CS-27 tires & outdoor.
07-03-2010, 08:45 PM
#48
Yep, youre right. Steel or plastic outdrives. There are two sets of steel outdrives though, standard and lightweight. You can use either, unless you want to turn a steel ball diff into a slipper spool.
The lightweight steel outdrives have material removed under the diff ring, and the slipper pads dont seat too well. The standard steel outdrives are full faced under the diff rings and work best in slipper spool format. If you need pix, let me know. The front of my car is currently apart and it wouldnt be a problem.
A spool is basically a straight axle tying both wheels of that end of the car together. A front spool gives you more steering off the corner, and a diff gives you more steering into the corner.
The major downside of a spool is potential driveline damage in a crash, John went fairly indepth about that earlier. This is where the slipper spool comes in, and helps relieve the driveline stress during a crash. And yes, a slipper spool handles differently than a fully tightened ball diff.
Is a spool for you? You will honestly have to try it for yourself. For me it was night and day, and worth several tenths per lap. You have to drive it a little differently than a diff'd setup, but again you wont know till you try it.
The lightweight steel outdrives have material removed under the diff ring, and the slipper pads dont seat too well. The standard steel outdrives are full faced under the diff rings and work best in slipper spool format. If you need pix, let me know. The front of my car is currently apart and it wouldnt be a problem.
A spool is basically a straight axle tying both wheels of that end of the car together. A front spool gives you more steering off the corner, and a diff gives you more steering into the corner.
The major downside of a spool is potential driveline damage in a crash, John went fairly indepth about that earlier. This is where the slipper spool comes in, and helps relieve the driveline stress during a crash. And yes, a slipper spool handles differently than a fully tightened ball diff.
Is a spool for you? You will honestly have to try it for yourself. For me it was night and day, and worth several tenths per lap. You have to drive it a little differently than a diff'd setup, but again you wont know till you try it.
Thanks
Dan
07-05-2010, 10:53 AM
#50
As to the steering rack, I actually like the TC4 maintenance free bellcranks. Always smooth near center.
Spool Advantage
More on the spool-When a car is exiting the corner it is rolled over hard. The inside front tire has poor traction as it is unloaded. A property of the ball diff is that both sides receive equal torque. That means the outside is also getting poor torque. Forward traction is reduced. Add the spool and now the outside tire gets full torque. The car rockets out of the corner. I believe this is the main advantage. The spool also allows good four wheel braking.
One-way
A one-way has the same advantage on corner exit. It has great forward traction on the ouside front. In addition it has good corner entry steering, but it only brakes with the back tires so braking is poor. There will also be maintenance problems outside as grit enters the oneway bearings.
Making a slipper spool
You can make a very good TC4 spool using the Losi Slipper Spool pads and the lightened steel diff halves/outdrives. The Losi pads have little teeth which locate the pads on center using the ball bearing holes. They are an excellent thickness for getting good gear lash. See my earlier post on the slipper spool.
Lightened steel diff halves/outdrives
are easily spotted in the car by a divot machined into both halves of the outdrive shaft to lighten it. The heavier part is cylindrical here.
john
Spool Advantage
More on the spool-When a car is exiting the corner it is rolled over hard. The inside front tire has poor traction as it is unloaded. A property of the ball diff is that both sides receive equal torque. That means the outside is also getting poor torque. Forward traction is reduced. Add the spool and now the outside tire gets full torque. The car rockets out of the corner. I believe this is the main advantage. The spool also allows good four wheel braking.
One-way
A one-way has the same advantage on corner exit. It has great forward traction on the ouside front. In addition it has good corner entry steering, but it only brakes with the back tires so braking is poor. There will also be maintenance problems outside as grit enters the oneway bearings.
Making a slipper spool
You can make a very good TC4 spool using the Losi Slipper Spool pads and the lightened steel diff halves/outdrives. The Losi pads have little teeth which locate the pads on center using the ball bearing holes. They are an excellent thickness for getting good gear lash. See my earlier post on the slipper spool.
Lightened steel diff halves/outdrives
are easily spotted in the car by a divot machined into both halves of the outdrive shaft to lighten it. The heavier part is cylindrical here.
john
Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-05-2010 at 11:41 AM.
07-05-2010, 11:33 AM
#51
Dan
07-05-2010, 11:42 AM
#52
Making a slipper spool
You can make a very good TC4 spool using the Losi Slipper Spool pads and the lightened steel diff halves/outdrives. The Losi pads have little teeth which locate the pads on center using the ball bearing holes. They are an excellent thickness for getting good gear lash. See my earlier post on the slipper spool.
john
You can make a very good TC4 spool using the Losi Slipper Spool pads and the lightened steel diff halves/outdrives. The Losi pads have little teeth which locate the pads on center using the ball bearing holes. They are an excellent thickness for getting good gear lash. See my earlier post on the slipper spool.
john
07-05-2010, 12:44 PM
#53
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
I think thats the one way. Right next to it is part 1732- FT Ring Gear, for Heavy Duty One-Way. It looks like that is a replacement for the gear in 1703. If it is, then thats a the one way. It also looks like what I have in my car right now, which I was pretty sure was a one way too. Is there anywhere I can buy a spool or does Associated not have one? Do I need to 'make' one?
Dan
Dan
No Dan, that is a spool. That's why it's labeled as a solid front or rear axle. The replacement ring gear is part number 3939. The 1703 is what is being run in my sons car & it is a spool. Locked front with full braking. If that is exactly the part already in your car, try replacing the oneway bearings for regular bearings. That might be a bit cheaper than buying a new spool. Your LHS should be able to order one for you if they don't have one in stock.
07-05-2010, 01:28 PM
#54
07-05-2010, 01:33 PM
#55
No Dan, that is a spool. That's why it's labeled as a solid front or rear axle. The replacement ring gear is part number 3939. The 1703 is what is being run in my sons car & it is a spool. Locked front with full braking. If that is exactly the part already in your car, try replacing the oneway bearings for regular bearings. That might be a bit cheaper than buying a new spool. Your LHS should be able to order one for you if they don't have one in stock.
07-05-2010, 04:22 PM
#56
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
Most oneway axles have smaller oneway bearings in the housings that will let the outdrives spin & freewheel in one direction only. I might be wrong but it is possible that the solid axle that you have might be riding on oneway bearings in the chassis bearing housing. Again letting the solid axle spin and freewheel in one direction but not reverse.
07-05-2010, 10:40 PM
#57
ok cool thraed but hepl me PLEASE how do i put in the 1 way in a tc4
07-05-2010, 10:55 PM
#58
TC4racer123-A spool is solid. When you crash and force a wheel to stop you usually: Break the spool, Twist and axle into a pretzle, or shear a drive pin at the wheel. A slipper spool is like a tight clutch. When you crash, it slips a little and prevent breakage.
To install a one-way
First you have to have a one-way made specifically for the TC3 or TC4. You insert the outdrives and put a gear onto the oneway unit, and then You put the oneway in the car just like you do a ball diff. The one way has extra bearings that allow the outdrives to rotate in only one direction.
For detail on installing the ball diff download the TC3 or TC4 instruction manual from Associated.
Yokomo has also made one-ways for the TC3.
Lost Wheel nuts
This is probably due to my use of brakes on this tiny course. I have replaced the plastic hexes with the Losi JRXS Aluminum clamp on hexes. These fit the wheel tightly and prevent the wheel rocking back and forth on the hex causing the wheel nut to losen. Get the widest ones to match the fat hexes on the TC4 RTR. I got the narrowest ones to narrow the track width for the small track. Use the Losi JRXS narrow wheel nuts # 8 x 32 TPI or the red ones made by Hyperdrive.
Lunsford Titanium tie rods for the Losi XXXS and Losi rod ends are a good addition to the RTR TC4. The Losi rod ends are beefier than the wimpy associated rod ends. Titanium shock mounts for the Losi XXXS are also available. They make spring positions changes easier as they are mounted by a nut on the inside and the shock is held by a separate nut on the outside.
Net weight was a gain of .2 ounces or so for these mods. They improve the robustness of the car in the crashes.
john
To install a one-way
First you have to have a one-way made specifically for the TC3 or TC4. You insert the outdrives and put a gear onto the oneway unit, and then You put the oneway in the car just like you do a ball diff. The one way has extra bearings that allow the outdrives to rotate in only one direction.
For detail on installing the ball diff download the TC3 or TC4 instruction manual from Associated.
Yokomo has also made one-ways for the TC3.
Lost Wheel nuts
This is probably due to my use of brakes on this tiny course. I have replaced the plastic hexes with the Losi JRXS Aluminum clamp on hexes. These fit the wheel tightly and prevent the wheel rocking back and forth on the hex causing the wheel nut to losen. Get the widest ones to match the fat hexes on the TC4 RTR. I got the narrowest ones to narrow the track width for the small track. Use the Losi JRXS narrow wheel nuts # 8 x 32 TPI or the red ones made by Hyperdrive.
Lunsford Titanium tie rods for the Losi XXXS and Losi rod ends are a good addition to the RTR TC4. The Losi rod ends are beefier than the wimpy associated rod ends. Titanium shock mounts for the Losi XXXS are also available. They make spring positions changes easier as they are mounted by a nut on the inside and the shock is held by a separate nut on the outside.
Net weight was a gain of .2 ounces or so for these mods. They improve the robustness of the car in the crashes.
john
Last edited by John Stranahan; 07-06-2010 at 08:29 AM.
07-05-2010, 11:06 PM
#59
TC4racer123-A spool is solid. When you crash and force a wheel to stop you usually: Break the spool, Twist and axle into a pretzle, or shear a drive pin at the wheel. A slipper spool is like a tight clutch. When you crash, it slips a little and prevent breakage.
To install a one-way
First you have to have a one-way made specifically for the TC3 or TC4. You insert the outdrives and put a gear onto the oneway unit, and then You put the oneway in the car just like you do a ball diff. The one way has extra bearings that allow the outdrives to rotate in only one direction.
For detail on installing the ball diff download the TC3 or TC4 instruction manual from Associated.
Yokomo has also made one-ways for the TC3.
Lost Wheel nuts
This is probably due to my use of brakes on this tiny course. I have replaced the plastic hexes with the Losi JRXS Aluminum clamp on hexes. These fit the wheel tightly and prevent the wheel rocking back and forth on the hex causing the wheel nut to losen. Get the widest ones to match the fat hexes on the TC4 RTR. I got the narrowest ones to narrow the wheelbase for the small track. Use the Losi JRXS narrow wheel nuts # 8 x 32 TPI or the red ones made by Hyperdrive.
Lunsford Titanium tie rods for the Losi XXXS and Losi rod ends are a good addition to the RTR TC4. The Losi rod ends are beefier than the wimpy associated rod ends. Titanium shock mounts for the Losi XXXS are also available. They make spring positions changes easier as they are mounted by a nut on the inside and the shock is held by a separate nut on the outside.
Net weight was a gain of .2 ounces or so for these mods. They improve the robustness of the car in the crashes.
john
To install a one-way
First you have to have a one-way made specifically for the TC3 or TC4. You insert the outdrives and put a gear onto the oneway unit, and then You put the oneway in the car just like you do a ball diff. The one way has extra bearings that allow the outdrives to rotate in only one direction.
For detail on installing the ball diff download the TC3 or TC4 instruction manual from Associated.
Yokomo has also made one-ways for the TC3.
Lost Wheel nuts
This is probably due to my use of brakes on this tiny course. I have replaced the plastic hexes with the Losi JRXS Aluminum clamp on hexes. These fit the wheel tightly and prevent the wheel rocking back and forth on the hex causing the wheel nut to losen. Get the widest ones to match the fat hexes on the TC4 RTR. I got the narrowest ones to narrow the wheelbase for the small track. Use the Losi JRXS narrow wheel nuts # 8 x 32 TPI or the red ones made by Hyperdrive.
Lunsford Titanium tie rods for the Losi XXXS and Losi rod ends are a good addition to the RTR TC4. The Losi rod ends are beefier than the wimpy associated rod ends. Titanium shock mounts for the Losi XXXS are also available. They make spring positions changes easier as they are mounted by a nut on the inside and the shock is held by a separate nut on the outside.
Net weight was a gain of .2 ounces or so for these mods. They improve the robustness of the car in the crashes.
john
07-05-2010, 11:17 PM
#60
The shims go between the largest bearing, the outdrive bearing, and the oneway case. First remove side to side play by adding shims. Then move them to one side or the other after installing the pinion and pinionshaft. Rock the spur back and forth, move the shims until there is a slight play in the spur as you rock it back and forth on the pinion.
john
john