R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-18-2010, 01:02 PM   #121
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 1,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
Didn't I warn you about this in the nitro forum?
Yep, you warned me - but, I've jumped in with my ass in the lead. Took a few well deserved shots in the ol 'touche for my callous, elitist attitude and wham - here we are. Seems we have some decent discussions. I hope everyone understands I do care and will do all I can to help. Now to get some relevant input. There are posts that have real strength. It is sad to see what is happening to RC racing. All we can do is keep trying to get it right. I do think we are a smart enough bunch to band together to come up with, good, solid and well executed ideas.
Rich Browne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:03 PM   #122
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

I could write a novel but I am not going to waste the time.
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #123
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 1,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
I could write a novel but I am not going to waste the time.
Could I ask for Cliff Notes, then?

Rick, all I can do is try. I am willing, but, I'm from the other side of the fence (fuel) - you have a TON of knowledge and racing respect. I can only offer my willingness to serve. I do like RC racing it is a true passion.
Rich Browne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:10 PM   #124
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 126
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Just my 2 cents: Stock class 17.5 with a non-computer and timing programmed esc.

I love TC racing but its getting ridiculous. I do run the Mamba and have a laptop ( just recently bought ), but when I run offroad (which I am verring towards-less stress) with my sc10 and slash 4x4 I leave the laptop at the house and have no timing worries.

Plus, I see more people racing offroad than onroad. I travel every Sat. to a offroad track 2 hours away and see 80-90 entries, plus they race fri. nights with the same amount. There biggest class is the slash 2wd box stock class 20-30 entires. But they do have Open CORR which is any motor, 10-20 entries. I also race every sunday at my local club's track in 17.5 and VTA. Which sometimes sees about 4-10 entries in 17.5 and about 6-10 VTA.

There are just a few reasons why I still stay in touring racing, racing with good friends locally and seeing the crazies at the NEGS races.
mark_stnly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:17 PM   #125
Tech Elite
 
seaball's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,303
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to seaball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Yes Mod is run all around the world we all know this....but for whatever reason itís not working here in America. How do you fix what is broken.....???

if the guys across the pond had to run on 90 x 40 tracks all year long, mod probably wouldn't work over there either.

i can't help but feel like we have tunnel vision and continue to forumlate our ideas for the future based on our own, often makeshift, home tracks. what if we started using some nitro tracks all summer (or winter in florida and similar) and expanded our indoor events to have larger templates? maybe this is more for touring, but that seems to be what a lot of this pertains to.

the old format of tight tracks with nothing but 180's, coupled with the fact that pan cars can't tolerate dots is crippling our ability to present better touring circuits. and now, some think tc should run on 3.7v so that we can continue to run in our basements all year.

this is what makes me think we are blinded by trying to get things back to how it used to be, instead of finally expanding to new areas. i understand the existing tracks aren't going to change overnight, but there are a number of gas tracks sitting around on off days for the nitro guys. they are built, often publicly owned, and ready for some mayhem.

every time i catch up on the latest ets leg, i'm left with more than a slight feeling of jeaslousy.
__________________
*** The Gate II - Home of Mike Wise ***
seaball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:21 PM   #126
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winthrop harbor
Posts: 2,293
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

As an owner operator that has to deal with the continued decline of on-road over the last year, with no end in site. The current state of the "speedo war" has got things to a point, that the perception is, " I have to have that in order to do well". Now instead of the battery or motor of the month it's the esc's.

While all of the new technology has truly shown us what the brushless motors are capable of, it is in no way made things more "user friendly" for the average consumer who wants to start in the hobby.

There is no foreseeable end to the technological advancements that the hobby is going through right now, especially with daily phone calls that I recieve asking about LiFe and other new battery technologies out there.

Asking ROAR to limit what we use may not be the best solution for a geographic area of hobbyists. Track sizes and conditions vary so greatly within a geographic area that what may work for Mr Cuff's place may not work
at a place like Victory R/C in Green Bay.

Tracks within a 50 mile radius may not even be following the same rule set or same class structure within the rule set.

Should the individual regions set the specifics of the classes which are run in their geographic area?

For example "Sportsman"; 21.5 mfg "A", with specific ESC settings. "Expert" 17.5 and open ESC, and of course "Pro", any motor any esc.

Would this be easier? One very specific rule set at the Regional level and another at the National Level?

Or is the more potentially cost effective route be that VTA, or something similar should become the "Sportsman" class.
__________________
Team Novak,Gravity RC,
ercwhtsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #127
Tech Champion
 
Kevin K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,833
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kevin K Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin K
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball View Post

if the guys across the pond had to run on 90 x 40 tracks all year long, mod probably wouldn't work over there either.

i can't help but feel like we have tunnel vision and continue to forumlate our ideas for the future based on our own, often makeshift, home tracks. what if we started using some nitro tracks all summer (or winter in florida and similar) and expanded our indoor events to have larger templates? maybe this is more for touring, but that seems to be what a lot of this pertains to.

the old format of tight tracks with nothing but 180's, coupled with the fact that pan cars can't tolerate dots is crippling our ability to present better touring circuits. and now, some think tc should run on 3.7v so that we can continue to run in our basements all year.

this is what makes me think we are blinded by trying to get things back to how it used to be, instead of finally expanding to new areas. i understand the existing tracks aren't going to change overnight, but there are a number of gas tracks sitting around on off days for the nitro guys. they are built, often publicly owned, and ready for some mayhem.
Exactly!!!!
__________________
2013 USVTA World Champion of the World
MOTIV RC presents the Midwest All-Star Carpet Series....15th year running 2017/18!!!
USVTA National Championship....check it out!!!
Im only responsible for what I say NOT what you understand.
Kevin K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:26 PM   #128
Tech Master
 
Owen RaCing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mountain Valley
Posts: 1,940
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
For another take on this why not do away with mod at Carpet races all together here in the US? Itís the lowest attended class of all the classes at the Nationals and larger races. Why not make the few join the many and race 13.5 instead of making the many go up and join the few. I really fail to see the logic behind this thought process of making people run mod just so there is a mod class. Yes Mod is run all around the world we all know this....but for whatever reason itís not working here in America. How do you fix what is broken.....???
Its not working in america because everybody is to pansy to step up there game. If anybody thinks mod is to fast, then they are just covering up a need for more practice. You dont have to drop in a 4.5.

WHY on this earth would you consolidate to the SLOWER class?? Some of us dont like going slow. We like having power, since after all, these are just expensive toy cars. Ive never had anybody come into the hobby shop and ask "Hey man, this car is sick, how slow does it go?"

If we need a 25.5 sportsman class, and a Open class (Modified Class) to make peoples passions for slowness fulfilled, thats fine. But dont count out the people that wanna run MODIFIED.

To many classes, not enough guys that wanna fulfill 99.99% of humanities quench for speed.
__________________
powered by anti-anxieties, sarcasm and chipotle
Owen RaCing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #129
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

Here is what I posted (in paragraph form) in another thread...and this again is coming from someone who is on teh sidelines at this point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trackdesigner71
There ought to be a rookie class where only racers with <1 full year of racing experience are classified, and can run their RTRs, zero sponsorship and strictly limited upgrading...kinda like with Legends only opening up the chassis options. After a racer has raced as a rookie for one full year or three feature victories within that one year ("battlefield promotion" I think they call it on the Nationwide Tour in golf) and weekly or bimonthly workshops led by the shop and some of the highly seasoned racers at the track so they can learn things about their cars and can develop car tuning skills for the the next step. That next step up would be Sportsman. >1 year of racing (or automatic promotion for three feature wins) but not < 3 years and limited sponsorship. By this point, after cutting their teeth racing with other rookies and learning about their cars, racers will probably have stepped up to a car with more tuning options but they arent quite ready to rumble with the big guns. Five or more wins as a sportsman (or up to two more years racing experience) and then its Expert. These guys are pretty locked in when it comes to racing. They have been in for three years, could probably build their own car and have pretty significant tuning knowledge, their pretty competitive on a weekly basis and maybe can run a big event or two and finish pretty well. They have some legit sponsors as well and can start helping the newer racers that are running rookie and maybe even some of the sportsman racers. After a year of expert, four years in total, (at least in theory) these guys can go out and run national races as spokespeople for the hobby and for their local track and rumble with the likes of Blackstock, Cavalieri, Drake, Cuffs et al as a Pro.
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:44 PM   #130
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,538
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to munrath
Default

Rich - I'm glad you are seeing the benefit of such a thread like this. We may not all agree on some things but for the first time in a while we are at least talking about the issues and having dialog with ROAR which is something that has been missing IMO.

For those of us that are still ROAR members, why not have a ballot or survey system so that ROAR doesn't have to make all of the rules. We pay for membership and I'm sure many of us would like to have input into the rules that ROAR develops. I'd suggest you take some of the ideas posted in this thread throw up a survey and or ballot and let the members vote. This will take some of the pressure off ROAR and put some ownership on the racers. Next, implement the outcome for a month or two in a few regions, collect some data from the track owners, and implement at the next big race. Then repeat the process again. Take the leasons learned share them with the racing community and lets make some progress.

I think if ROAR contacted track owners and had some dialog testing of various sorts could take place and who knows you might develop some really good data.

Right now most of the stuff up until last night was keep in a vacumm, and now some really good ideas and suggestions have been surfaced.

Will you get it right the first time...probably not, but if you include the racers input we can't put all the blame on you, as we the racers had input, by voting.

Mark
__________________
Tekno RC (RTM) / RadioPost / Tekin / Pro-Match Racing / AKA / PT Racing Oils/Diff Lube

Races for 2015:
PNB, AMS, E-Nats Warm-up, E-Nats, LCRC North East Challenge, RAC, LCRC Halloween, Badlands, ROAR Region 2 Series, and Local Club Racing
munrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:52 PM   #131
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Ca
Posts: 1,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by munrath View Post
Rich - I'm glad you are seeing the benefit of such a thread like this. We may not all agree on some things but for the first time in a while we are at least talking about the issues and having dialog with ROAR which is something that has been missing IMO.

For those of us that are still ROAR members, why not have a ballot or survey system so that ROAR doesn't have to make all of the rules. We pay for membership and I'm sure many of us would like to have input into the rules that ROAR develops. I'd suggest you take some of the ideas posted in this thread throw up a survey and or ballot and let the members vote. This will take some of the pressure off ROAR and put some ownership on the racers. Next, implement the outcome for a month or two in a few regions, collect some data from the track owners, and implement at the next big race. Then repeat the process again. Take the leasons learned share them with the racing community and lets make some progress.

I think if ROAR contacted track owners and had some dialog testing of various sorts could take place and who knows you might develop some really good data.

Right now most of the stuff up until last night was keep in a vacumm, and now some really good ideas and suggestions have been surfaced.

Will you get it right the first time...probably not, but if you include the racers input we can't put all the blame on you, as we the racers had input, by voting.

Mark
Thanks Mark. I'm not a fan of open forums, but, your point - "it's all we have" is true. I have changed my tune - old dogs can learn, I suppose.

Quick note: The membership is ROAR. I know it seems like a back room filled with smoke, maybe it was, let me just say - that's not what the current group in the ExCom wants. Transparency is a hard thing to obtain. The new ROAR Web Site is where we are going to open the dialog up. For now, until the ROAR forum is up, I guess I'll be here.

Interesting you asked about polling. The ROAR forum does have polling capability. Steve Pond is expressing the idea to get the Committees and the ExCom to utilize the polling feature. Why not the membership, too - seems like a great idea.
Rich Browne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #132
Tech Champion
 
Kevin K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,833
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kevin K Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin K
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen RaCing View Post
WHY on this earth would you consolidate to the SLOWER class?? Some of us dont like going slow. We like having power, since after all, these are just expensive toy cars. Ive never had anybody come into the hobby shop and ask "Hey man, this car is sick, how slow does it go?"
This is the same argument for making people run mod....why consolidate them to a FASTER class?? The majority doesnt like to go faster but its ok to force them to go faster instead of making the few that want to go faster go slower.....I get it now.... I agree there are too many classes....but the problem is each class has people that like the class. Really why is it ok to tell the most popular class that they need to change to a less popular one is all Im saying. There is no easy solution....if its mod...then there is already a mod class but its not working...so what is it?
__________________
2013 USVTA World Champion of the World
MOTIV RC presents the Midwest All-Star Carpet Series....15th year running 2017/18!!!
USVTA National Championship....check it out!!!
Im only responsible for what I say NOT what you understand.
Kevin K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 02:04 PM   #133
Tech Elite
 
trackdesigner71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lynchburg/Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 4,979
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to trackdesigner71 Send a message via Yahoo to trackdesigner71
Default

Mr Browne...there are a lot of very astute RC minds on this board and it would be good to tap a booming resource until the ROAR forum is up and running
trackdesigner71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 02:06 PM   #134
Tech Elite
 
dawgmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,505
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Rich Browne

Don't leave it up to the racers, thats what got us in this mess to begin with. GET RID OF ANY SPEC CLASS becuase when 17.5 spec lap times are no more then .5 off from Mod then its not really SPEC RACING. This is my solution just make the tuff call and run Mod and 21.5 and be prepared for RCTECH TO GO IN COMPLETE MELTDOWN MODE WITH THE FOLLOWING REPLIES:
1. Roar is killing touring
2. Get rid of Roar
3. Get rid of Dawn Sanchez
4. Screw the Nats I'll be racing at my local track

The funny thing is nobody wants to run Mod but have been runnin' mild Mod laps times with the advancement of ESC's

Rich make the unpopular chose but it is the right thing to do

Last edited by dawgmeat; 03-18-2010 at 02:45 PM.
dawgmeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2010, 02:19 PM   #135
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,919
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Doesn't ROAR allow the local club races the ability to govern there local races. All you have to do is post them before your race.You want to go slower make your own rules saying that. Racing series do the same thing- at least the one I've raced for 29 years does. ROAR is alway slow to react and does not like criticism.
__________________
Team Epic/Trinity -Michael Bruce Hobbies-Team CRC ,Kimbrough Products and GForce.
WGT-R, GT-12 Racing USA (21.5 ), Formula 1 and Home Track is 386 RaceWay,ROAR #7540.
BullFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2010 ROAR Electric OnRoad Carpet Nationals @ The Track - Gaithersburg, MD TimPotter Electric On-Road 440 04-05-2010 08:45 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:55 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net