darnold-I have heard of racers putting very thin motor shims under the T-plate pivot balls on the RC12L3. What does this do? The local track is changing to 4 cell 19 turn from 6 cell stock. I want to optimize my chassis as the car will have a lot less rip coming out of corners and efficient setups with good corner speed will be key.

Adrian....You will be surprized on how fast the car is with 4 cells and the 19 turn. I ran my car a couple times like this last year on carpet and its very quick. I have never raced on 6 cells so I dont know how fast it is but its fun with the 19t. I would assume that the washers raise the pod up some. I know that some times they use washers only in the front for some rake in the T bar but I dont really know what all that does. Im sure some of the other 12th scale vets will help you out on that.

PS.....Dont listen to anything that Dave "Tiger" Arnold has to say as he does not know anything.....unless you are asking how to putt from the rough:sneaky: :lol:

Thanks Kevin. Yeah im asking about what rake in the t plate does. 4 cell 19T is close in top speed to 6 cell stock but the 6 cell stock tons more rip coming out of corners. Last time I ran i had to roll on the throttle as i could light up the rear tires coming out of corners very easily.

With 4 cells i wont be able to throw the car into corners and rely on power to get me out. I will have to be smoother, drive better lines and conserve corner speed.

I just picked up a 12L3 (used - although it looks pristine. . .) and have to rebuild the diff - the spur is 64p and I run 48p.

What spur do people usually run?

boomer, try a 72 tooth 48p gear or maybe a 75 tooth

DaveL- Thanks for the insight and kind words, good things to think about.

Concerning the tire traction issue I remember when I got my Delta Super Phaser in 82', I ran that thing on a sealed parking lot that I made a course out of with masking tape. Similar to what I had done in 80' with my MRP GP12 on the street in front of my house. It was dusty and had no grip but I still loved driving the car because of the challenge of controlling it well and would time myself to run as fast as possible without spinning out.

I started running 6cell outdoor with Tyree and the gang a couple of years later and knew nothing about the tires & tire traction secrets and techniques. I had to slow way down to make the corners and although I drove a nice line and seldom made a mistake I was nowhere near being as fast as them. At that point it wasn't fun because my driving wasn't being rewarded due to my lack of knowledge and equipement (tires) and trying to race while driving a loose car was becoming a nightmare. It was no longer about the challenge of controlling the car, the challenge was now racing.

This is some of what came to my mind when I heard about the Roar Nats issues and for me to spend hard earned money to be in that position again where even driving the car would potentially not be fun just didn't add up. It seems that whenever a group of people are put into a new situation (for some of them at least) that the performance gap is potentially at its greatest. I know what some of the guys did last summer at the Nats to gain a traction advantage outdoors (although it's probably common knowledge now) in 12th mod but those chemicles weren't going to be allowed at this place so I would be starting from scratch with zip experience. Also, I thought "what if someone comes with a weird foam tire like an old black dot or something" that would work better than what most people had? On carpet the tires are pretty standard we all know but for asphalt I just wasn't sure.

That meant whoever knew from experience or word or figured something out or knew a different way of getting grip for their tires and chassis setups would probably have a huge advantage. The thought of going to a Nats with all of the expense only to have it potentially (most likely) be one big learning session (and me behind the curve) just didn't appeal to me this time around although I am usually up for these types of challenges.

I'm still learning so much about chassis setup and procedure for carpet that racing a format that I haven't run in earnest for nearly 20yrs threw me a little with all of the other factors added in. It seemed to throw some of the factory drivers too based upon their comments on TT and other boards back in Dec. when word about this race and it special directives came out. I guess the bottom line for me is that I didn't know enough to feel comfortable of being able to do my best in the non-usual parameters that they had originally laid out for this race.

AdrianM- putting shims under the t-bar depending on how you do it has 2-3 effects.

1. If you put the same size under both pivot balls you are raising the roll center in the rear and taking traction away from the rear tires.

2. If you put a shim under either the front or rear pivot ball only you will increase the initial turn-in or decrease the initial turn in of the car respectively.

3. If you raise the roll center then you may have to lower the pod by putting shims under the t-bar which could have an affect since you are lowering the cg of the motor. What affect it would have I'm not sure.

Wow "Tiger" Arnold.....your answer to his question has only raised more questions to your 3 part answer. Nicely done:rolleyes: Now does it matter where the shim is for it to effect turn in? Like if its in the front does it turn in more? or if its in the rear does it turn in more? Or does it not matter where it is it has the same effect on the car?

Me too Boomer! Got a brand new 12L3 off of e-bay with electronics! Hopefully the new tire truer arbor will be here soon. You going to bring your car to Camarillo on Sat.? I'm planning on running it occasionally at Hot Rod's. :tire: :D BTW you gotta take your 1/8th scale and NTC3 over to Revelation sometime. You're not to far from there if I'm not mistaken. I practiced there last Sunday and had a great time. Racing every other Sunday from what I understand, and they have a big Mugen race there in a little over a month. :tire: :tire: :tire:

Looks like 75 is the largest you can use right? Also, running 6 cells and gearing per the Associated instructions, 75 spur with 26 pinion, the motor doesn't seem to fit with that large a pinion. What's up with that. Am I doing something wrong? I'll be running 4 cell anyway, but what's a good ratio to start out with for a P2K2 for example, with new full sized foams, medium sized track?

We race 4 cell Chameleon on Ozite....36' by 62'....somebody ran 6 cell stock against us.......pretty much identical lap times.....6 cell had a little more top end.

Anybody got an extra 12lc/l3 chassis they want to sell????

your the man! thanks darnold

Actually I do know someone whose got a new 12 L3 with a few extras and an unpainted Protoform body. E-mail me and I can forward his e-mail address to you. I think he was asking $100 flat for the whole package...even if you only need the chassis, it's still a excellent deal.

Hi Everyone!

Darnold- I scored a 2002 switchblade from a guy I race with at TCHR. I brought it home and noted that the front arms were upside-down and the rear pod had no movement in it, but when I took off the dampner tubes, it moved freely. The tubes themselves move freely out of the car, I think they are too long and are bottomed out on their travel. Did you experience this with your car when you built it? I put on a set of 1/10 pan arms from my trinity 10 scale car and made sure I had them on right-side-up. The car has only been run once or twice, and it is missing one of the little stop bars for the batteries, so I was going to make two out of a broken t-bar.(wise decision or not?) I have to find some trinity short ball cups, there are tall ones where the steering turnbuckles meet the steering blocks, and they hit the rim when the wheels are turned. I am wondering what length to trim the dampner tubes to(how long are the ones on your car-overall at full compression?), what to use for dampening fluid, and a good starting point for camber, caster, and toe, as well as shock spring, oil, and ride height. I was told 3 degrees for caster but I don't remember where to look for it or how to make that adjustment. I was going to start with 2 degrees of negative camber(I think that is where the L3 is at) but don't know how to adjust that, either. I was going to try to emulate your car as closely as I can. I liked the way it was layed out and balanced looking, as well as the way it performed. Thanks in advance for any info you send my way. Hope the golfing is going good. Talk to ya later.

Avink1-Thanks for the complement, man! Pete and I both really enjoy racing with you. It is encouraging to finally be able to race with you a little bit instead of just getting out of your way. See you this weekend? I have to work this Saturday but should be out in time to pick up Pete and head over there. Maybe I'll use a little restraint this time and actually finish!

Dave S, I'll race with you anytime. I have some of the shorter Trinity ball ends you are looking for, and you can take a look at my dampner tubes off my Trinity to see whats going on with yours. Hopefully I'll see you and Pete on saturday at the track.