DragonS- more... I used to get pounded around here for running 12th mod. I was told that I was stupid because I was "supposed" to run stock first! I Never figured who made up this rule and when I originally started in RC NObody raced stock at the local track. You brought your 12th scale and started with mod for 90+% of the people. Then I used to get pounded about running 12th period and told that I should "be like everyone else". Only problem is that NO one is like everyone else! So here's what I had to go through for the past 3yrs that I have been back in this hobby: I go to races and no one runs mod so I have to run inbetween rounds or with the Stock guys. Now a lot of those on fire TC guys have petered out and are running off-road which Leisure just converted to, go figure. Guess what they wanted me to do when I stopped at the track last week? Now here in the Chicagoland area we have 3 tracks that pretty much specialize in 4 different types of racing and I think it will be much better. Liesure is now gas/electric indoor off-road. Radio Active is gas/electric outdoor off-road with a very small indoor electric track. AJ's is indoor/outdoor electric oval and outdoor 1/5th oval. He does some serious 12th road course but it's only 5min and 19turn (he ave. 3heats of it though). Finally we have my new home track of Venture. I used to split time between here and Leisure with Venture getting my practice days and Leisure getting my race days and a practice day. Venture is where all of the on-road guys will be going and are starting to show up more at now. This is great because more 12th scales will be in one place like tonight (Venture's big race day is Saturd night). I would tell different track owners that we simply had too many tracks and that a lot of 12th was going on but it was spread out. Think about what would happen if AJ"s and Venture had a series for normal 8min 12th scale. There would be 2heats of mod and 4-6 heats of stock! I think it is easier for people to make proposterous accusations about 12th being dead instead of hearing reality because they want people to validate what they are doing and it simply can take a while for the truth to come out. That's why we 12th's get a lot of grief it seems and why a lot of un-truth's are spread to discourage people from trying 12th scale. Stuff like "you need a tire truer", or "it's a battery war and TC isn't", or "those 12ths cost more to maintain" or "they break too easily". In most cases the people making these false accusations haven't even RACED 12th scale! When I would ask them where they got their info many respond: "So and so told me and I trust them" or "That's what I figured out". Even hobby shops are in on it. I have found them to purposely steer people to the type of racing that they want and like only to have the person come back later and ask them why they didn't tell them about another class (like 12th scale). They think it's ok to play lord over peoples money like this because they have to stay in business but it's not. Then you start running through the logic and look at the dumb founded look on their face as it becomes more obvious that their thought process isn't panning out. The best marketing for 12th scale I have found in the past 3yrs is for someone to run it consistently even if it's in-between rounds or in early morning practice. Don't listen to the ribbing just run the car and guess what enivitably happens (and I have talked with many from around the country and they say similar happened at their track with 12th scale)? People start asking about what it is and how much it cost. They start going out and buying them when they realize how much cheaper they are and how fast and simple they are. Too bad people don't let them know about it earlier. Where hobby shops don't realize they get their money back is that 12ths tend to stay in the hobby longer and become more dedicated to buying the high-end stuff. They tend to get envolved more on the national level and travel and in general spend more money. Unfortunately business in general and people too want the hear and now and when the future comes they are left scrambling. My .02 cents worth.-Dave

dave,
what do you have to say in response the the folks that say "everytime I tap a board this 1/12 gets tweaked" is that just an old wives tale? I dont have any issues with resetting the tweak if this is the case I was just wondering if you have experienced any issues like this.
IKE

Darnold....feel like typing after a nap huh.....lol.....I think i was somewhat intimidated by what i had heard about 1/12..like you said, tire truer etc. etc....but,once i started racing, alot of that didnt materialize... we have run 6- 8 weeks and have not trued a tire yet..we generaly run approx. 300-400 laps in a weekend..and, had i not hit a board the first couple weeks i wouldnt even have a chunked tire....I am really surprised by the wear of these tires(much longer than what i thought)...as far as breaking parts..i havent broke a thing on my 1/12...but i have only broke 1 part on my sedan with equal # of runs...(not laps though...gotta love 8 minutes)...on tweaking.....sure 1/12's get tweaked......but how much money is spent on tweak boards etc. for sedans......i've never seen setup wheels for a 1/12....you stick a penny on each wheel and lift it with your exacto...what is that about $4.02 for a 1/12 set up board...:D ..........Me and another guy that really got things going locally in 1/12 also race sedan...and we consider the sedan a warmup for our 1/12 heat.......:D We had 2 guys that just started racing 1/12, they went to the Snowbirds this year and they finished in the stock C-main..which isnt setting the world on fire....but they really dont know what they are doing yet.....anyway..go 1/12....

Foamdonuts...i tap my fair share of boards...but i'm not seeing alot of tweak...i'm running an RC12LW.

Did anybody find it weird that there were no CRC's in the mod A-main at the Snowbirds????

dragon,
could you better explain your penny setup board? Sounds like it works I just need a better description of it.
Thanx
IKE

Donuts.......i just learned this one a couple weeks ago from Socko.....get your car set up, ready to run...put a penny on each front tire(the pennies should be either on the back side or the front side of each front tire...just a little off top dead center)...find the center of the chassis(actually find the center before setting the pennies on the tires)use an exacto to lift the car from the center.....if the car is tweaked..one of the pennies will fall off before the other....so, you need to adjust your tweak screws(i'm assuming that you have a t-bar car) until both pennies fall at the same time....neat little trick.......:) ...ya'll correct me if i'm a little off on this.....I do have a question for someone that has been in this a little longer than i.......say the rear tires are the same dia....but the front tires are off by almost 1/8"(extreme i know)can you use the tweak screws to get the car neutral..will it work at all or maybe in less extreme stagger conditions......thanks

Dragon, yes you can tweak the car with diff. size tires on the front it just gives you more preload on one side. The car may set up flat but it will turn harder one way than the other if only ever so slightly.

One thing about the penny trick is to make sure your front springs aren't "sacked out". The springs we use are so small that after a while they will collapse slightly and you will get some slack in the front end when you lift it up. Make sure to compress each side of the front end first before you tweak it. Do this with the car off the table so you can see the spring fully extend. If there is any extra down travel in the kingpin after the spring has fully extended, you need new springs or you need to shim the spring if it's only a little shorter.

Before you put the coins on the tires, compress both ends of the car and let it rebound. Then tap the chassis a couple of times at the center of the chassis, either the shock mount or damper discs for you 12L guys. This settles the suspension into it's ride height. Put the coins on the tires at about the 1 o'clock position and you've already heard the rest. This won't work with either bad springs or wheel bearings that aren't free so check that stuff too! OH, and do this on a FLAT surface too.

At the tone......

Foams- People saying that their 12th cars get tweaked every time they tap a board is probably not true. I just got back from Venture and as I was leaving one of the guys who doesn't run 12th even though he has one started saying much of the same things. You know: "12th's are too much work, they tweak too easily, they go through tires to quickly....blah,blah, blah,". I looked at him and said "you KNOW you are making all of this stuff up and none of it is true don't you?" To which he replied "I honestly think this stuff" and I simply said "You may honestly think this but you KNOW you're just making all of this stuff up and none of it is true don't you?". And that's the problem, we as human beings want what we want when we want it and we will lie, cheat and steal to get it and then come up with glorified reasons that we convince ourselves with as to why we did what we did and how we deserve to have what we took. Oh well, don't listen to people when they say that because they are probably trying to discourage you so that you run their class.

hehehehhehehee great words dave, I really like the "people want what they want" part it is so true it is scary. I wasnt and am not about to let what other guys say about a racing class hinder me from racing more, I just wanted to know from you if I should look forward to a "HIGHER MAINTENANCE LEVEL" with the 1/12 than with the TC's. Again, thanx for the great answer.
IKE

Foams- you're welcome. Oh btw, when you get your new trinity car the instructions tell you to check tweak by using the notch on the back of the car on the bottome motor pod plate. I have seen Josh do this with his car as well. Since I got my new Trinity car and doing it this way my tweak has been the easiest to set in 3yrs. I used to do it from the front but there were times that I noticed that the "correct" tweak according to the front tires would have my pod "kinked" if you turned it over and looked at it. I am pretty sure though that my chassis actually became "tweaked" over the course of this racing season which is REALLY odd in such a short period of time. Any way it never ran properly this way for me so I started using my "old skool" method of having the pod level with the chassis when you turn it over and this started making things better even though tweaking it by the front tires should have been fine. Using the method that the Trinity instructions tell you to has the same affect in making the pod level accross the chassis. Since doing it this way my tweak has really been a non-issue. I would highly recommend it.-Dave

Hey, everyone!

Been a while since I have posted. I just recently picked up a 12L3 and am going to run it as a mod car at TCHR. I ran last night, and finished 7th in the A main-not bad for the first time out after running stock in my crc. I am having a problem, however, with getting through the corners with it. I am running .020 springs in the front, with Jaco Purple front tires, sauce them about half on the inside. In the rear, I run the stock silver spring, .075 t-bar, and Jaco greys. Man, I don't know if it is the different car or the extra speed that a mod has, but 1/12 modified is a whole different animal than stock.
I am also wondering what a good modified motor would be to use in the 12L3. I am currenlty using a 15 triple Mr. K(Reedy) and a 13 double speed gems. If anything stands out as being wrong, let me know...


The extra speed is phoenominal, going fast is definately more fun.

Dave S

If i remember correctly...my 12lw manual says to check tweak by the rear...someone told me that the front was more accurate??????any suggestions...front vs. rear.....

How about a quick poll on receiver packs on a 1/12......i am not using one(yet).....are they needed for mod only?????

I would think checking it from the rear would be more acurate because it would take into any slight differences in the front suspension.

Dave S- What's the problem that you are having getting through the corners? Is it a lack of turn-in or is it turning more one way than the other or is it pushing coming out of the corners or does it just seem slow through the corners? If it's slow through the corners and or into the corners try a little more negative camber or put a washer under the front pivot ball of the t-bar so that it is at an incline. You can also try a thinner lube on the damper disks if you are pushing going in but put a thicker one on if you are pushing through sweepers and on-power exits. Also more caster will help that condition as well. For motor you should be using a 11turn minimum and a 9-8turn for sure. Integy makes a really good mod motor now and we are looking at doing the P94's possibly. Check in some of my earlier post for gearing. Hope this helps-Dave Arnold

DragonS- RX packs give about 15sec extra run time but for some speedos such as the LRP Quantum Competition you will actually get some extra performance because the voltage in your main pack stays up longer thereby giving a longer sustained speed during the race. For Novak's it actually seemed to hurt that aspect with inconsistent main pack voltage.

CAN I HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION.......................


After further review this weekend I have come up with the conclusion that Dave Arnold is just as fast as Josh Cyril..........he has the lap times to prove it.........I saw it with my own eyes.


J/k Dave

See ya this weekend