I'm returning to 1/12 after taking about 16yrs off from racing. I mostly ran 27t stock with 1700 4-cell sanyos back in the mid 90's and going to 17.5t blinky is a step back in terms of performance. Don't get me wrong I love the idea of virtually no motor maintenance and batteries (lipos) with competitive performance without constant matching and paying $$$ but the US really needs to consider higher performance motors for 'stock'. In Europe the 10.5T blinky class is the lower 'stock' class together with full mod. When it's all said and done we have $600-800 tied up in a 1/12 car and the only item that really wears more when using higher watt motors are the tires. A set of tires are $20???. I don't really get it. Back in the day you had to have connections to get the good mod motors and batteries and there was a ton more maintenance than stock. Is is no longer the case. I would love to follow the Europeans lead and make stock=10.5T and mod=open. If the concern is speed go watch a YouTube video of 10.5T, it's equivalent to a v.mild brushed mod motor (19T) which I can assure you is a ton more fun to drive than 17.5T and you will have punch out of a corner and have to lift.

Rant over.....

Jon.

I believe your memories of how fast 1/12th scale was in the 90's may be a little off. Those cars have gotten faster in your memories over the years. We need to remember that the chassis' are much better now and the battery capacity is two to three times higher. I remember never touching the throttle before the racing started. We geared our cars to the capability / capacity of our batteries not to the cars or the drivers ability. We all hoped that the car would go like hell for 8 minutes then dump right after the finish line.

The chassis' and tires today are so good that you can run flat out all the way around the track in 17.5 blinky. The old chassis' and tires couldn't hold. A big part of that is the reduction in weight with the lipo battery. If you can find some old race videos, you don't see a black groove like you do today.


Check out this 1/12th worlds video. These cars are 6 cell modified. I think a modern 17.5 blinky could scare them and boosted would beat them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs94vDnc2TA

Sean Cochran commented on the "1992 IFMAR 1/12th WORLDS VIDEO thread. (02/09/2012)

A couple of things for everyone to consider regarding the speed.
1. The batteries then, if I remember correctly, were Panasonic P170s, 1700mah.
Most peoples Tx packs have more run-time than what was available then.
2. Most racers were probably running 18-20 turn motors.
3. There was no way in the World that normal people could get equipment comparable to what was run by those racers.
Now days everyone can buy the "best stuff" from any hobby shop and be competitive at the WCs. If they have the skill.
4. The cars were almost 200 grams heavier than what we have now.

After watching the 12th mod cars at Snowbirds I am convinced that 12th scale was much more rewarding "back in the day". The cars are so flipping fast and no one has to even think about dumping, the skill set required to run 12th is much different. Now you simply pull the trigger and hang on, emphasis on hang on! I'm not denying the talent that it takes to get a 12th car around now days but just stating it requires a different type of skill.

While I think lipo and brushless has made general RC racing much better for the masses it has also ruined some areas of racing, with 12th scale and possibly to some degree oval being less fun because of the endless run-time.

Also the type of back and forth action you can see in the video just isn't possible with the cars today due to the speed. It seems to me that today if you don't have a 2 foot "bubble" of free space around your car there is going to be a crash. Things are just happening too fast for even the "best reflexes in the business" to be able to keep up for an entire race distance.

I'm sure others will have differing opinions on this but I have watched and participated in 12th scale racing for 24 years, yes I'm getting really old, and just wanted to give some observations on what I have been seeing happen over the last few years. It just takes looking at old videos to really drive home the point.

I'm now going to go grab a fire extinguisher and wait.

Long live 12th scale.

I have been racing 1/12TH even longer than Jason, and I have to agree with his comments. The cars in that video may, and I say only MAY, have been faster for the first minute but that is all. Did you see them struggling to finish? At the very worst, after the 4 minute mark a 17.5 boosted car would start to eat them up, badly. A modern 1S mod can dump a 6000+ pack in 8 minutes. That is very serious power and would cream those cars. 17.5 blinky is bringing racers into the class because it is slow enough to be driveable. If you want to go faster, pop a 3.5 in there and let her rip. :D

Give Markus Mobers an E-mail (www.speedtechRC.DE). I think he will ship around everywhere. I really like them!

Jon I mostly drive 13,5T boosted, 10,5T blinky 10,5T boosted and Mod (4T), so I'm not quite sure. But, Magenta's all arround work really wel on mostly all the track I run, with all the classes. Also have a look at Yellow - Black, which is really good for stock blinky!
For high bite, you should look out for Pink all around.

Regards Robert

Dang and I left my flamethrower in my other suit:lol:, to be sure memories tend to remember more of what we want vs what really happened. I started in the mid 80's and at that time here you only had two choices, 12th or 1/8th gas. And those days were 1200 cells, not even as fast as todays 17.5 cars, the only things I really miss about the old days was the larger turnouts and the strategy that came into play to make run time. I guess thats why I liked boost so much, it brought back some of the mental part of racing.

Do you know whether the foam on the mobgums is different from Jaco, or whether they are identical but with a grey rim? I notice some of the compounds are different (eg red), but I am wondering whether Markus renames an already existing Jaco compound or whether he actually puts different foam on dyed Jaco rims. Any ideas?

There is a reason the Europeans go with a 10.5 for stock class...their tracks are much bigger than tracks in the US so they can handle the power and the cars still seem slowish.

I agree that the US tracks are smaller in general, however due to the fact that nearly every 1/12 event is run is conjunction with USGT/touring car the tracks are way more open and flowing that ever were 10-15 yrs ago.

Jon

No that's what I meant.... 21.5 will teach you how to drive more than driving a faster car and smashing it...... its also a spec motor so its all driver..... And just to let you know frank Calandra and Brian Wynn them self's drove with 21.5's today

17.5 blinky is going faster at most tracks than we used to with 27t brushed and 4 cells. Cars, setups, adapting to oderless sauce have made the cars smoother and easier to drive than ever so they seem slower.

At the last snowbirds I went to 7 years ago I could drive my 27t car at full throttle for as many laps as I wanted. It's was terrible for my motor to do so and would lead to motor fade late in a run but I could do it.

The latest motors have made racing so close. I think its great. To win in Spec 1/12 (17.5 or 13.5) or WGT (13.5 or 10.5) you have to drive every lap perfectly, no crashes or blown corners and be able to pass and lap traffic cleanly. I love the challenge of racing today.

In the early days of 17.5 blinky, the cars felt terribly slow. Lap time wise they were actually ok but with those motors and batteries, they just had no punch so they felt slower than snot. Now motors and batts have improved so not only are the lap times quick but they have a fairly quick feel to them as well. Feels a lot like my brushed days when we ran procar (21t) motors. Still not quite as punchy and fast feeling as 19t racing (I LOVED 19t with 4600 4 cell), though 13.5 will get you there.

Here is our new track in Australia open 3 months ago and we run 10.5 and soon will run 17.5 as a feeder class.

http://www.oversteerracecentre.com.au/highway.jpg

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/w...pse70f1d52.jpg

Merry christmas from Corally! ;-)

That settles it, buying a Corally. :)

What kit does she come with?

Holy Moly, me too!

Merry Christmas.