Solution for the stock class problems
01-29-2010, 05:07 AM
#17
Tech Initiate
Everyone is looking at the cars and equipment but surely the most productive thing would be to make the tracks more technical with shorter straights?
All the speed in the world wont help you then, or is that too obvious?!!!
All the speed in the world wont help you then, or is that too obvious?!!!
01-29-2010, 05:20 AM
#18
Modified is the answer. If all racing were "open" many of the technical problems would be solved. But there are problems you are not addressing.
Most touring car racing is done indoors on carpet. Because you're indoors track size is automatically limited. So even 10.5 becomes too fast because you don't have the space.
Track designs have become tighter and tighter over time. A tighter track is a better test of driving skill, or so we have been told (for those who didn't recognize it, yes that was sarcasm). With the tracks that tight the faster mod cars will break easier when you hit a board. And even if the top level drivers can handle mod on that track, they just want to come out and have fun as well. Having to rebuild the front of your car every round is not fun, no matter who you are.
The problem isn't the cars, the motors, the batteries or the speed controls. The problem is us! We all think whatever we want to race is the best for everyone, and anyone who disagrees is just an a-hole! It's the attitude of racers that needs to change. Racers need to accept changes even if they don't like them. Try it and if doesn't work out we can always change back. Right now we can't even agree on the length of races!
But, i have said all this before
(Did you get it that time, sparky?)
Most touring car racing is done indoors on carpet. Because you're indoors track size is automatically limited. So even 10.5 becomes too fast because you don't have the space.
Track designs have become tighter and tighter over time. A tighter track is a better test of driving skill, or so we have been told (for those who didn't recognize it, yes that was sarcasm). With the tracks that tight the faster mod cars will break easier when you hit a board. And even if the top level drivers can handle mod on that track, they just want to come out and have fun as well. Having to rebuild the front of your car every round is not fun, no matter who you are.
The problem isn't the cars, the motors, the batteries or the speed controls. The problem is us! We all think whatever we want to race is the best for everyone, and anyone who disagrees is just an a-hole! It's the attitude of racers that needs to change. Racers need to accept changes even if they don't like them. Try it and if doesn't work out we can always change back. Right now we can't even agree on the length of races!
But, i have said all this before
(Did you get it that time, sparky?)
01-29-2010, 06:16 AM
#19
Still does not solve the problem of the guy with the ultra trick tekin beating everyone. I just setup my car less top and more torque so I can beat you out of the corners. Track is not the issue, we don't have a permenant outdoor track. We change the layout everytime we come out. The same group of guys win each time. We just had a race where a guy with a T3 running 13.5 Novak GTB on foamz beat one of our fast guys who was using a TC4 with a 10.5 GTB on rubber. Equipment plays a big role.
01-29-2010, 08:07 AM
#20
Spec racing now is the true definition of racing. Not a cheater class by far. Yes it may be discouraging to the new guy entering the hobby but that is where the 21.5 motor and a non advanced ESC or a restricted ESC comes in to effect. People wine and cry cause it costs too much. If you want to be in the most popular class and be competitive then you must pay to get there. People say there is no skill involved now with the advanced ESCs. Ha they are wrong you still have to get the car around the track and not hit stuff. I have been around racing near all my life. Nascar,open wheel,and rc cars. This is no different from any other form of racing. You must pay to play and pay more to go fast. If you look at the big races and see where all the big turnouts are it would be spec class not mod. Mod is a dieing class if you ask me. Heck 13.5 is just as fast.
And I can see where you are coming from that 13.5 and mod speeds are similar at maybe RCPlus. But we ran back to back at chico, and the 5.5 was faster. And no harder to drive. And AMain/chico, is same size or smaller then TZII (I dont remember off the top of my head what the sizes are). Brandon was laying faster laps then 13.5 with his 5.5 on a unprepared and dirty track, with a friends old reedy spec jaco blues. I guess I don't get how you guys say its not any faster. And the racing can be close, if people man up and practice in mod. Just remember folks, the trigger is linear! And at Speedworld, 13.5 is a dying class. Mod is back 
01-29-2010, 09:01 AM
#24
I agree with the OP.
The last six or seven years I've been racing nitro, practically every class out there on and off-road. Recently a carpet track opened up nearby, and I purchased a 1/12, a class I've been dying to try but had no facilities nearby to run on. We run open mod. I love the class, my favorite by far. It gives me the same feeling as 1/8 on-road which was my favorite class previously.
Being hooked on the 1/12, I started researching for big races to go to. Lucky me the snowbirds is going on right now, so I've been watching online as it unfolds. I am not new to racing or even big races, but all in nitro. It's been an interesting experience watching it all. And I am sad to say I don't feel like I missed out on much. It's just not the same atmosphere as nitro, where if you're fast, you're fast. Everybody else work on getting better. Where if you have a race with 300 entries, and two classes you know you are going up against at least 100 other quality drivers.
Man, what a bunch of whiners are electric racers!!! this esc this, this esc that, battery here, battery there, close racing, cars are too fast, car breaking track, God forbid I have to actually learn something new....etc. Man up!!! Drive within your limits!
From what I have researched I see that most of these esc and similar issues are null in mod.
The open playing field gives different ways of reaching the same solution.
In nitro, you pick your class, you go run the best you can with what you have, if your not fast enough you end up in a low main. Simple as that. There are stock motors, mod motors, different nitro percentages, pipes to change your powerband, and different clutch settings. Guess what they all run together, because they are all just tuning options, and in the end if you can't handle a fast race car AND run clean lines you are not going to end up in the A-main.
Want close racing? Ever since I started racing, I was told that's what the mains system is for. People around the same speed race together, doesn't matter if its A or Z main, Pro or newbie. Maybe electric racers can't bear the thought of running in the g-main?
Watching the race as a newb to electric races, I was shocked by many things. I've heard of the snowbirds forever, heard how big their racer turnout was, 500 to 600 entries. Shocked to see only 15 racers in 1/12 mod, during practice. I have seen the same names in the slower classes as in the faster classes. So I thought, hmmm, maybe it's just a way to get more track time at the event. Could be, or is it the big fish small pond thing.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying nitro is better. But I do like their race system better. I do like the speed and agility of mod electrics.
True spec racing is a very difficult thing to implement. Spec racing in my view, is same chassis, same tires, same body, same motor, esc, batteries.... etc. Same everything, that is spec. The closest thing I've seen to that type of spec racing is VRC. So there you have it. You want cheap spec racing go race VRC! everybody else man up and drive!!!
The last six or seven years I've been racing nitro, practically every class out there on and off-road. Recently a carpet track opened up nearby, and I purchased a 1/12, a class I've been dying to try but had no facilities nearby to run on. We run open mod. I love the class, my favorite by far. It gives me the same feeling as 1/8 on-road which was my favorite class previously.
Being hooked on the 1/12, I started researching for big races to go to. Lucky me the snowbirds is going on right now, so I've been watching online as it unfolds. I am not new to racing or even big races, but all in nitro. It's been an interesting experience watching it all. And I am sad to say I don't feel like I missed out on much. It's just not the same atmosphere as nitro, where if you're fast, you're fast. Everybody else work on getting better. Where if you have a race with 300 entries, and two classes you know you are going up against at least 100 other quality drivers.
Man, what a bunch of whiners are electric racers!!! this esc this, this esc that, battery here, battery there, close racing, cars are too fast, car breaking track, God forbid I have to actually learn something new....etc. Man up!!! Drive within your limits!
From what I have researched I see that most of these esc and similar issues are null in mod.
The open playing field gives different ways of reaching the same solution.
In nitro, you pick your class, you go run the best you can with what you have, if your not fast enough you end up in a low main. Simple as that. There are stock motors, mod motors, different nitro percentages, pipes to change your powerband, and different clutch settings. Guess what they all run together, because they are all just tuning options, and in the end if you can't handle a fast race car AND run clean lines you are not going to end up in the A-main.
Want close racing? Ever since I started racing, I was told that's what the mains system is for. People around the same speed race together, doesn't matter if its A or Z main, Pro or newbie. Maybe electric racers can't bear the thought of running in the g-main?
Watching the race as a newb to electric races, I was shocked by many things. I've heard of the snowbirds forever, heard how big their racer turnout was, 500 to 600 entries. Shocked to see only 15 racers in 1/12 mod, during practice. I have seen the same names in the slower classes as in the faster classes. So I thought, hmmm, maybe it's just a way to get more track time at the event. Could be, or is it the big fish small pond thing.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying nitro is better. But I do like their race system better. I do like the speed and agility of mod electrics.
True spec racing is a very difficult thing to implement. Spec racing in my view, is same chassis, same tires, same body, same motor, esc, batteries.... etc. Same everything, that is spec. The closest thing I've seen to that type of spec racing is VRC. So there you have it. You want cheap spec racing go race VRC! everybody else man up and drive!!!
01-29-2010, 09:03 AM
#25
I don't see small carpet tracks as necessarily being a problem. The reason modified fixes the stock problem is that you have more motor than you need. That means if your track is small and can't handle a 3.5 then put a 10.5 in. If that is still too fast put a 13.5 or 17.5 in. You just have to apply the right motor to the track you are at.
In that regard mod racing is a bit more expensive initially. You probably need a range of motors to select from.
In that regard mod racing is a bit more expensive initially. You probably need a range of motors to select from.
01-29-2010, 09:37 AM
#26
No matter what we change the slow people will whine because they can't win.
It is that simple.
It is that simple.
01-29-2010, 10:10 AM
#27
01-29-2010, 10:11 AM
#28
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
[QUOTE=Owen RaCing;6925834]Does RCPlus or Timezone have a spec 21.5 class?
No they do not. I just see that is the direction ROAR is going to go to try and slow things down. Would I hand my controller to someone new and say go drive my car see if you like it? Not now.
No they do not. I just see that is the direction ROAR is going to go to try and slow things down. Would I hand my controller to someone new and say go drive my car see if you like it? Not now.
01-29-2010, 10:35 AM
#29
I agree completely, and this is what I would be thinking of in terms of the future of r/c. The younger generation has no problem with quick reactions. What has really surprised me is some of the old-timers don't have either. Some of the same names 10-15 years ago are still fast. I have raced against some older people that were downright FAST. Does anybody think the kids would put the video game controller down for some slow racing?
As an industry R/C is more than racing, and many times it is a family activity. As a child I went racing R/C racing with my father. He couldn't drive, but he was my pitman, crew chief, etc. It was a family activity. Now that he is deceased, those are some of the fondest memories I have of him. We should think about what gets these kids interested in RC, as they are the only way we'll keep R/C around. Today the competition for R/C is video games, many of which require intense concentration and quick reactions. Kids don't have trouble with this and like it. If you can't handle the speed, maybe it's time to hand to the controller to your kid, and refine your other skills in RC.
01-29-2010, 11:01 AM
#30
In my opinion after helping setup and build a high end nitro onroad track....
Electric has way to many classes.
One class has to be extremly cheap and slow enough for a newbie that can buy a rtr and run it. (basic motor/motors limited by rollout and rcgt type rules)
The other class should be by chassis type and open motor.
Like others have said just because it is mod does not mean you have to run a 3.5T.
Your skill level, wallet and patience will guide you on what to run. If you have to rebuild your after you destroy it most will motor down to what they can handle.
I see it all the time with 1/8 onroad. Some of the guys have WAAAY more motor than they can handle but their wallet can afford it. Other run on a budget with alot less motor...guess what everyone runs together the class sort itself out by skill and everyone has a good time.
Worse case you stack the heats for the first round so a less experienced driver is not in the same heat as a national level driver as this is not fun for either driver.
I came back to run 1/12 recently as I had been traveling to nitro races and my local track was being remodelled. I have no interest in spec racing anymore it is dumb. Techonolgy has trumped the concept of spec racing.
The speed control are way more complicated than I have the desire to figure out and are pretty close to modified type speeds in most classes.
Solution run mod..seems to work in europe as you dont see electric events with more than 2 classes and mod appears to be very popular.
Electric has way to many classes.
One class has to be extremly cheap and slow enough for a newbie that can buy a rtr and run it. (basic motor/motors limited by rollout and rcgt type rules)
The other class should be by chassis type and open motor.
Like others have said just because it is mod does not mean you have to run a 3.5T.
Your skill level, wallet and patience will guide you on what to run. If you have to rebuild your after you destroy it most will motor down to what they can handle.
I see it all the time with 1/8 onroad. Some of the guys have WAAAY more motor than they can handle but their wallet can afford it. Other run on a budget with alot less motor...guess what everyone runs together the class sort itself out by skill and everyone has a good time.
Worse case you stack the heats for the first round so a less experienced driver is not in the same heat as a national level driver as this is not fun for either driver.
I came back to run 1/12 recently as I had been traveling to nitro races and my local track was being remodelled. I have no interest in spec racing anymore it is dumb. Techonolgy has trumped the concept of spec racing.
The speed control are way more complicated than I have the desire to figure out and are pretty close to modified type speeds in most classes.
Solution run mod..seems to work in europe as you dont see electric events with more than 2 classes and mod appears to be very popular.