Schumacher Corner
08-13-2002, 06:26 PM
#2686
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
Well Darkseid, after dealing with lowsy HPI pulley fences I have learned that before assembling the drivetrain you need to "test" the strenght of the fences first. I to origioanlly placed the fences on backwards, but when I looked at the pulley it looked wrong, so I began to take it apart and when it came apart quite easily I knew it was wrong. Why the manual has the discrepency I don't know, I can only assume that the diagram was to make sure people didn't try to use the wrong part, and they also assumed that most builders would take one look at the fence and see the rounded edge should go in. Actually if the pulley was molded with the fence on the opposite side they wouldn't even need a fence on the resultingly (is that a word????) empty side.
Well Darkseid, after dealing with lowsy HPI pulley fences I have learned that before assembling the drivetrain you need to "test" the strenght of the fences first. I to origioanlly placed the fences on backwards, but when I looked at the pulley it looked wrong, so I began to take it apart and when it came apart quite easily I knew it was wrong. Why the manual has the discrepency I don't know, I can only assume that the diagram was to make sure people didn't try to use the wrong part, and they also assumed that most builders would take one look at the fence and see the rounded edge should go in. Actually if the pulley was molded with the fence on the opposite side they wouldn't even need a fence on the resultingly (is that a word????) empty side.
I don't see what the point of having those ridges on the outside of the fence are for if they are not going to interface with the pulley.
Also - I tried putting the fence on "backwards", the right way, with the smooth edge in, and Darkseid is right, it's very easy to crack the fence. I used vice grips but when the fence nearly cracked I backed off and just put it back on the other way. If I have a problem and it comes off I'll CA it. If I hadn't read this thread there would have been no reason for me to think the fence goes on with the ridges facing out.
Much ado about nothing really - first time it comes off it gets a permanent bond.
Last edited by patelladragger; 08-13-2002 at 06:28 PM.
08-13-2002, 08:27 PM
#2687
hey dark,
what hole do you install the top ball in on the front hubs the farther, or closer to the tire? i'm running the outside one and that's probably my problem. but i like the way the car feels.
what hole do you install the top ball in on the front hubs the farther, or closer to the tire? i'm running the outside one and that's probably my problem. but i like the way the car feels.
08-14-2002, 07:55 AM
#2689
Tech Adept
seaball,
I run the inside hole in front and the outside in the rear. I run 1 degree of camber all the way around and 8.5 (middle) castor.
What inside hole do you use, upper or lower? I am currently using the upper hole. When I use the lower hole, I use 0 camber.
What spings are you running? Can you go softer? Adrian will attest, the harder the spring the faster the tire wear.
What temp is your track?
I run the CS-27 in the morning and change to Sorex 36R when the temp comes up. Last year I ran the 27s all day and they wore prematurely on the inside edge. Now that I only use them in their recommended temp range they wear fine.
I hope that this has helped,
racerdave
I run the inside hole in front and the outside in the rear. I run 1 degree of camber all the way around and 8.5 (middle) castor.
What inside hole do you use, upper or lower? I am currently using the upper hole. When I use the lower hole, I use 0 camber.
What spings are you running? Can you go softer? Adrian will attest, the harder the spring the faster the tire wear.
What temp is your track?
I run the CS-27 in the morning and change to Sorex 36R when the temp comes up. Last year I ran the 27s all day and they wore prematurely on the inside edge. Now that I only use them in their recommended temp range they wear fine.
I hope that this has helped,
racerdave
08-14-2002, 08:48 AM
#2690
seaball: I run the kit stock hole both front and rear. I don't know if your calling this the inside, so I'll just refer to it as the kit stock hole. The other hole is refered to as the in-line king pin hole. I haven't tried those because I don't want to stretch my turnbuckles out that far, and I think you have to file down the stock hole on the hub, just to give the suspension room to work. And I didn't want to do that either. I might try running without the sway bars this weekend and see if that will reduce the scrubing on my tires. So I'll see what the effect is.
patelladragger: Bad news though, the CA option isn't as 'permanent' as you might think. If it were, I wouldn't even be discussing this. Even with CA, they will eventually come off. I've found that taking corners tight and driving over corner dots, does wonders to undo the CA bond!
AdrianM told me that the reason the pulleys crack is if you all ready tried applying CA to them. So they can no longer strecth to go on properly. I'm going to get new pulleys and new pulley fences(a near $20 investment total) and start over fresh. I'll try putting them on the 'correct' way just as AdrianM laid it out for me. I'm even going to get a mini vise from the hardware store to put them on with a nice and steady pressure. If the pulley fences crack still, I'll call Schumacher up again, because at $8.99 a pop, trial and error isn't how I plan to get this done!hehehe
From what he said though. Using a vise or channel lock pliers, with fresh pulleys and fences will result in the 'correct' coupling between the two. And no more falling off.
patelladragger: Bad news though, the CA option isn't as 'permanent' as you might think. If it were, I wouldn't even be discussing this. Even with CA, they will eventually come off. I've found that taking corners tight and driving over corner dots, does wonders to undo the CA bond!
AdrianM told me that the reason the pulleys crack is if you all ready tried applying CA to them. So they can no longer strecth to go on properly. I'm going to get new pulleys and new pulley fences(a near $20 investment total) and start over fresh. I'll try putting them on the 'correct' way just as AdrianM laid it out for me. I'm even going to get a mini vise from the hardware store to put them on with a nice and steady pressure. If the pulley fences crack still, I'll call Schumacher up again, because at $8.99 a pop, trial and error isn't how I plan to get this done!hehehe
From what he said though. Using a vise or channel lock pliers, with fresh pulleys and fences will result in the 'correct' coupling between the two. And no more falling off.
08-14-2002, 12:25 PM
#2691
thanks darkseid. yeah, stock and inline are good terms. i've been running the inline style for a while now and i like it. the stock hole actually compensates for the active camber that heavy castor produces. maybe just not enough. i for one don't like the new take offs with the blue insert in them. i think the insert is ok material, but seems to be a thiner profile and leaves me with a huge gap. they grip well, but i can't get the wear i want. my older take offs were the bomb. 22's and 27's. i think i'm gonna try the orion/jb stuff now. i got a set in a trade, and they are super nice. the wheels are a bit soft though. we'll see. thanks.
08-14-2002, 01:08 PM
#2692
Well in our area, the premounted Takeoffs are the beggining and the end of tire choice. Period!
The tire wear seems to be totally dependent on driving style or setup. Again, thats what I'm trying to determine. Some people's tires last longer than others, but the Takeoffs themselves seem to be the best on the market right now. At least around here.
The tire wear seems to be totally dependent on driving style or setup. Again, thats what I'm trying to determine. Some people's tires last longer than others, but the Takeoffs themselves seem to be the best on the market right now. At least around here.
08-15-2002, 03:51 PM
#2694
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Rcdougie.......Thats not too much droop but you might want to check the overall length of the shocks. They should be about 66 to 67mm long and you should have no problems getting enough droop. If they are shorter then that then you will not get enough droop. Also the rear shock tower is about 1 to 2mm taller then the front so if both sets of shocks are the same length but you cant get enough droop in the rear it might be beasue they are too short. I personally run the front tower all the way around so the shocks can be the same length and can get the same amount of droop at both ends of the car. Hope this helps.....also if the shocks are too long the piston will hit the top of the body, when the lower arm moves to max up travel and can lead to bending the shock shaft so keep an eye out for that aswell.
Last edited by Kevin K; 08-15-2002 at 03:59 PM.
08-16-2002, 05:57 PM
#2696
Tech Apprentice
According to Paul W., both towers are the same. But there is an optional low profile front tower for running the body lower. Got this info from him whle attending the Snowbird. Have they been change since then?
08-17-2002, 10:18 AM
#2697
Shock Towers
Check your towers by removing them from the car, taking all the hardware off of them and then bolt them together using the outer shock mount holes- you can see that the rear tower has the 3 center mounting holes drilled slightly lower than the front, and the bottom of the tower also has slightly more material which hangs lower than the front tower- the 3 center mounting holes drilled lower means it would sit slightly higher on the bulkhead. I haven't done a totally accurate measurement yet, but it looks to be just a touch under 1mm, perhaps .5mm. Not too much of a difference, but they are not the same. 
08-18-2002, 04:46 PM
#2699
Let me clarify the tower issue. The front tower is 2mm lower because the front A-arms are monted 2mm lower than the rear arms (stock) and this allows you to keep the front & rear shocks the same length. When you do the front roll-center mod, you should also change the tower too. It is up to you which tower you would like to go with. If you go with the rear tower in the front, that is the most straight forward way and allows for no changes on the shock length. If you go with the front tower on the rear (shorter shocks), you will have to due some more changes to make everything work properly. You will have to shorten the ball-cups on the shock 2mm and this lowers the spring retainers and allows for shorter shocks (lower cg).....Remember, this is stuff that some people do for their personal preference and is not always better. Please try the car in stock form first.
08-18-2002, 05:45 PM
#2700
Hey guys, how was everyones weekend?..hope you all had good results!
it was an off weekend for us, so a chance to finally test teh roll centre mod.
I Instantly noticed the improved mid corner speed, and a reduction in the aggressivness of the initial steering, but much greater Mid through exit. Although it felt like the initial aggressivness was removed, it had more steering overall!
Overall I dont feel It improved the laptimes greatly, but it certainly did change the feel of the car. I would like to test it some more before making my mind up.
What other changes apart from the front tower did you guys make?..anything else I should try, as I felt it caused the front to dip a little more off power.
I stood the front shocks up to hole 2 and this was improved.
On another note, has anyone found an insert which works better for them with the new Takeoff 22's - 27's..Im looking for something with some more support for the sidewalls, and perhaps a fraction firmer than the Included insert, with less airgap.
it was an off weekend for us, so a chance to finally test teh roll centre mod.
I Instantly noticed the improved mid corner speed, and a reduction in the aggressivness of the initial steering, but much greater Mid through exit. Although it felt like the initial aggressivness was removed, it had more steering overall!
Overall I dont feel It improved the laptimes greatly, but it certainly did change the feel of the car. I would like to test it some more before making my mind up.
What other changes apart from the front tower did you guys make?..anything else I should try, as I felt it caused the front to dip a little more off power.
I stood the front shocks up to hole 2 and this was improved.
On another note, has anyone found an insert which works better for them with the new Takeoff 22's - 27's..Im looking for something with some more support for the sidewalls, and perhaps a fraction firmer than the Included insert, with less airgap.