"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
04-06-2009, 06:20 AM
#91
Tech Apprentice
Hello Jilles
Would you tell us the purpose / effect of adding 0.5mm shims under the rear arm mounts? Does it mean high roll center and make the rear more grip?
Thanks.
Would you tell us the purpose / effect of adding 0.5mm shims under the rear arm mounts? Does it mean high roll center and make the rear more grip?
Thanks.
04-06-2009, 10:51 AM
#92
Hi Jilles,
with all that much questions, I think one more or less shouldn't make the difference, and maybe this one is interresting for other readers of the topic too. I was wondering if there is a difference if you adjust your track width with suspension blocks or if you adjust it with wheel shims, for example:
does it make a difference if you drive 1D-1D in front with 0mm wheel shims, or if you drive 1C-1C with 0,5mm wheel shims?
In theorie it should be different, the axles are more outwards and your arms are longer if you drive 1D-1D instead of 1C-1C, but is there a difference in feeling when you're driving?
Thanks!
Koen
with all that much questions, I think one more or less shouldn't make the difference, and maybe this one is interresting for other readers of the topic too. I was wondering if there is a difference if you adjust your track width with suspension blocks or if you adjust it with wheel shims, for example:
does it make a difference if you drive 1D-1D in front with 0mm wheel shims, or if you drive 1C-1C with 0,5mm wheel shims?
In theorie it should be different, the axles are more outwards and your arms are longer if you drive 1D-1D instead of 1C-1C, but is there a difference in feeling when you're driving?
Thanks!
Koen
Last edited by Koen; 04-06-2009 at 01:04 PM.
04-06-2009, 11:26 AM
#93
Hi Jilles,
with all that much questions, I think one more or less shouldn't make the difference, and maybe this one is interresting for other readers of the topic too. I was wondering if there is a difference if you adjust your track width with suspension blocks or if you adjust it with wheel shims, for example:
does it make a difference if you drive 1D-1D in front with 0mm wheel shims, or if you drive 1C-1C with 0,5mm wheel shims?
In theorie it should be different, the axles are more outwards if you drive 1D-1D instead of 1C-1C, but is there a difference in feeling when you're driving?
Thanks!
Koen
with all that much questions, I think one more or less shouldn't make the difference, and maybe this one is interresting for other readers of the topic too. I was wondering if there is a difference if you adjust your track width with suspension blocks or if you adjust it with wheel shims, for example:
does it make a difference if you drive 1D-1D in front with 0mm wheel shims, or if you drive 1C-1C with 0,5mm wheel shims?
In theorie it should be different, the axles are more outwards if you drive 1D-1D instead of 1C-1C, but is there a difference in feeling when you're driving?
Thanks!
Koen
Ok, it's only a small difference, but it does have an affect on how the car drives
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=145
HiH
Ed
04-06-2009, 12:42 PM
#94
Ed,
You might try a slightly harder front spring or 1mm shim less on the rear bulkhead for more camber change in the rear. You can also try angle the shock one step more inside on the shocktower.
Jason,
Thanks! On the "old" Nosram I run normally 2,4,1,1
On the new Pearl Speedo I use 2,5,2,2.
Yokfans,
Adding shim under the block give the car little more rotation without the 0.5mm the rear is in my opinion to stuck.
Koen,
Good question and as Ed already explain it changes a lot things more when you change width on the blocks. On the track I really can't tell any differents
Jilles
You might try a slightly harder front spring or 1mm shim less on the rear bulkhead for more camber change in the rear. You can also try angle the shock one step more inside on the shocktower.
Jason,
Thanks! On the "old" Nosram I run normally 2,4,1,1
On the new Pearl Speedo I use 2,5,2,2.
Yokfans,
Adding shim under the block give the car little more rotation without the 0.5mm the rear is in my opinion to stuck.
Koen,
Good question and as Ed already explain it changes a lot things more when you change width on the blocks. On the track I really can't tell any differents
Jilles
04-06-2009, 01:02 PM
#95
Thanks guys,
so if you only want to change the track with you'll have to use shims, and if you want to play with your roll center you can change the suspensionblocks (and also change the shims to be sure your width is equal)?
The difference in shock positions I shouldn't mentioned myself, but that difference looks small if you realise that you change it by 0,5mm (maybe 1 degree?). But then you remember you wanted to change your track width with 0,5mm, and that is the same lenght
so if you only want to change the track with you'll have to use shims, and if you want to play with your roll center you can change the suspensionblocks (and also change the shims to be sure your width is equal)?
The difference in shock positions I shouldn't mentioned myself, but that difference looks small if you realise that you change it by 0,5mm (maybe 1 degree?). But then you remember you wanted to change your track width with 0,5mm, and that is the same lenght
04-06-2009, 03:51 PM
#97
The standard 416 comes with B/A and XB/D, whilst the 416WE comes with C/C and XA/F.
The short arms are 1.5mm shorter in the front, and 1mm short in the rear, so make the car narrower... but as I'm sure Jilles will agree, no-one runs any other type anymore
HiH
Ed
The short arms are 1.5mm shorter in the front, and 1mm short in the rear, so make the car narrower... but as I'm sure Jilles will agree, no-one runs any other type anymore
HiH
Ed
04-06-2009, 08:19 PM
#99
Great thread! I've been tuning in since the begining, and I must sayI've already learned a lot. The tips on building shocks and setting droop are invaluable as those things cannot be seen in car photos and on setup sheets...
I do have one novice question: If you were to adjust rear toe-in (reduce it), would you alter the forward block or the rearward block? I understand how either one will effect rear-track, but I wonder if there is one in particular you try first...
I race an unmodified 415MSX-MRE (long arms) on a very small track (27T), if it makes any difference...
I do have one novice question: If you were to adjust rear toe-in (reduce it), would you alter the forward block or the rearward block? I understand how either one will effect rear-track, but I wonder if there is one in particular you try first...
I race an unmodified 415MSX-MRE (long arms) on a very small track (27T), if it makes any difference...
04-07-2009, 10:00 AM
#100
Koen,
I think you don't have to worry about the small details, even on a high level the differents is too small.
B18C Turbo,
As Ed already explain, no doubt to run any other arm then the short arms!
kschu,
Marc, Viktor and I have done some tests with the Speedo and the differents is very little. Power and runtime are very close and with a bit more experience and set-up changes we can improve the feeling of the SP2 speedo.
94eg,
I always use the 1XA block in the rear and set the toe-in by changing the rear/rear block from 1F-1D. 1XB and 1XC are more narrow and makes the car to narrow in my opinion.
You should try the shorter arms , especially on small track it will help a lot, better steering and rotation.
Jilles
I think you don't have to worry about the small details, even on a high level the differents is too small.
B18C Turbo,
As Ed already explain, no doubt to run any other arm then the short arms!
kschu,
Marc, Viktor and I have done some tests with the Speedo and the differents is very little. Power and runtime are very close and with a bit more experience and set-up changes we can improve the feeling of the SP2 speedo.
94eg,
I always use the 1XA block in the rear and set the toe-in by changing the rear/rear block from 1F-1D. 1XB and 1XC are more narrow and makes the car to narrow in my opinion.
You should try the shorter arms , especially on small track it will help a lot, better steering and rotation.
Jilles
04-07-2009, 10:30 AM
#101
Tech Apprentice
Hello Jilles, do you know if there is a difference between the SP2 speedo in blue and the carbon? I can't find any information...
04-07-2009, 03:15 PM
#102
Hi Jilles,
Thanks very much for the generous tips!
I need some help setting up my 416WE...asked a few people and i got different opinions,
1. when i am running 5 cells 4600mAh sub-c (forward position on the chassis)....the weight on that side of the chassis tends to be lighter than the opposite side where i have a KO 2413 low profile servo, novak receiver, LRP TC spec and obviously the motor. I run the personal transponder just in front of the battery. I noticed the weight difference when i was checking for tweak where the tires on the battery side (right side) would lift up first from the ground, then the left side. I was told to add some weights to balance out but I am hesitant to increase any weight as i am already about 35g over the minimum weight of 1500g. What would you suggest that i do?
2. Another problem that i usually have is when i am setting up the roll bar. What is a good way to make sure they are mounted correctly? I usually just make sure both sides are equally the same but when it seems to be different when i try to lift up the arm on one side, then the other to check.
Sorry for any dumb questions asked as i just turned 1 year running a touring car...
Thanks again!
Thanks very much for the generous tips!
I need some help setting up my 416WE...asked a few people and i got different opinions,
1. when i am running 5 cells 4600mAh sub-c (forward position on the chassis)....the weight on that side of the chassis tends to be lighter than the opposite side where i have a KO 2413 low profile servo, novak receiver, LRP TC spec and obviously the motor. I run the personal transponder just in front of the battery. I noticed the weight difference when i was checking for tweak where the tires on the battery side (right side) would lift up first from the ground, then the left side. I was told to add some weights to balance out but I am hesitant to increase any weight as i am already about 35g over the minimum weight of 1500g. What would you suggest that i do?
2. Another problem that i usually have is when i am setting up the roll bar. What is a good way to make sure they are mounted correctly? I usually just make sure both sides are equally the same but when it seems to be different when i try to lift up the arm on one side, then the other to check.
Sorry for any dumb questions asked as i just turned 1 year running a touring car...
Thanks again!
04-07-2009, 08:15 PM
#105
Hi Jilles,
Im running on rubber on asphalt and am pretty unsure about tyre insert selection. I used to run hara soft insert but tends to overheat 3mins after run... Do u mind to share your tips on how insert selection (soft, medium and hard) would effect the setting of the car and handling?
Plus, i heard drilling holes on the rim may avoid overheating a lil but i find it negligible....your thoughts please...thanks!
Im running on rubber on asphalt and am pretty unsure about tyre insert selection. I used to run hara soft insert but tends to overheat 3mins after run... Do u mind to share your tips on how insert selection (soft, medium and hard) would effect the setting of the car and handling?
Plus, i heard drilling holes on the rim may avoid overheating a lil but i find it negligible....your thoughts please...thanks!