"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
12-02-2009, 01:04 PM
#751
Difficult to tell from that pic whether it's being used for one or the other, but I noticed Marc's car had them in the pretty standard place for rebound setting...
HiH
Ed
12-02-2009, 01:04 PM
#752
i know its an Xray but check out the comment
Xray T3 of Teemu Leino showing o-ring on shock shaft, used to help fight traction rolling
Xray T3 of Teemu Leino showing o-ring on shock shaft, used to help fight traction rolling
12-06-2009, 04:48 AM
#753
Hi jilles,
I m setting up my car as per your Worlds set up RCS Bangkok. I have few questions about it.
1) You put 1mm washer under the FR suspension block, the normal one has 3mm under the upside down FR block, so does this means 4mm altogether? If I m using the separate FR blocks (TA05ver2 type), is it correct if I just add 1mm under it?
2)When you set Front 6mm dwn stop and Rear 5mm, whats the actual droop value for it? Im asking this coz I cant set my ride height as yours, my local track is a bit bumpy, so i need to set my ride height a bit high otherwise the chassis would drag to the tarmac on the bumpy section.
3) Whats your current setting on your Nosram ESC, now that you use Orion and Lipo batteries? Also whats your FDR when you use 4T Orion with lipo?
4) I m currently using Sweep40 tyre, which one do I need to change (set up) if I wanted more offpower steering, at the moment I need to really slow down during off power entering sweeper after the straight.
Thank you in advance for you reply!
I m setting up my car as per your Worlds set up RCS Bangkok. I have few questions about it.
1) You put 1mm washer under the FR suspension block, the normal one has 3mm under the upside down FR block, so does this means 4mm altogether? If I m using the separate FR blocks (TA05ver2 type), is it correct if I just add 1mm under it?
2)When you set Front 6mm dwn stop and Rear 5mm, whats the actual droop value for it? Im asking this coz I cant set my ride height as yours, my local track is a bit bumpy, so i need to set my ride height a bit high otherwise the chassis would drag to the tarmac on the bumpy section.
3) Whats your current setting on your Nosram ESC, now that you use Orion and Lipo batteries? Also whats your FDR when you use 4T Orion with lipo?
4) I m currently using Sweep40 tyre, which one do I need to change (set up) if I wanted more offpower steering, at the moment I need to really slow down during off power entering sweeper after the straight.
Thank you in advance for you reply!
12-07-2009, 10:36 AM
#754
Usually, I would have said that too, as I know thats how Viktor used to set his rebound... however, having spoken to some guys who've been at the ETS, running more o-rings does help to stop traction roll, as it reduces the amount of bump travel of the shock (bit like how droop screws work in roll, but acting on the opposite side...).
Difficult to tell from that pic whether it's being used for one or the other, but I noticed Marc's car had them in the pretty standard place for rebound setting...
HiH
Ed
Difficult to tell from that pic whether it's being used for one or the other, but I noticed Marc's car had them in the pretty standard place for rebound setting...
HiH
Ed
I guess you learn something new every day.
12-07-2009, 11:54 AM
#755
me and my racer mate Richard were testing this at the weekend
our cars were "digging" afer the straight on out indoor track causing a wierd traction roll or "snapping" and we were loosing a lot of ground catching the cars
i used my TRF and he has a T3 , we tried supergluing the sidewalls of the front tyres and this seamed to stop the traction rolls but the snapping was still there , so i stopped driving and layed on the outside of the corner and you can see the chassis plate hitting the carpet causing the tyre to become unweighted
SO we added 1 rubber ring to the front shocks , and BINGO the chassis is off the carpet and we can now run our tyres without superglue , i was amazed at the results but if you push on the chassis the shock travels down as fer as possable then the chassis is on the floor , not with a rubber ring
hope this little bit of info helps
our cars were "digging" afer the straight on out indoor track causing a wierd traction roll or "snapping" and we were loosing a lot of ground catching the cars
i used my TRF and he has a T3 , we tried supergluing the sidewalls of the front tyres and this seamed to stop the traction rolls but the snapping was still there , so i stopped driving and layed on the outside of the corner and you can see the chassis plate hitting the carpet causing the tyre to become unweighted
SO we added 1 rubber ring to the front shocks , and BINGO the chassis is off the carpet and we can now run our tyres without superglue , i was amazed at the results but if you push on the chassis the shock travels down as fer as possable then the chassis is on the floor , not with a rubber ring
hope this little bit of info helps
12-07-2009, 02:25 PM
#756
Thanks guys 
12-07-2009, 07:25 PM
#757
That is some good info on chassis roll. I have noticed the front tip of my car rubbing due to the end of the straight G force. I am only getting the rub on the very tip of my front left chassis but do you think that is causing the car to slow down that much to add a O ring?
12-07-2009, 10:04 PM
#758
Jilles....whats your usual tire saucing procedure? Warmers for how long? Type of additive etc..
12-09-2009, 05:45 AM
#759
Tech Initiate
Hi, jilles
Would you please share the setup in RCA? My friend and I will go there soon, we want to have a good start, thank you
BTW, which tires do you use for practice and test the setup mostly?
Thank you in advance for you reply.
Would you please share the setup in RCA? My friend and I will go there soon, we want to have a good start, thank you
BTW, which tires do you use for practice and test the setup mostly?
Thank you in advance for you reply.
12-09-2009, 07:37 AM
#760
Tech Adept
orings
hi guys,
is there a specific position the o-ring has to put onto the shock shaft? or do you just put it on and one time compress the chassis to the floor?? just curious how this works! thx for the reply.
is there a specific position the o-ring has to put onto the shock shaft? or do you just put it on and one time compress the chassis to the floor?? just curious how this works! thx for the reply.
12-09-2009, 07:39 AM
#761
It doesn't matter because the o-ring will move to the bottom of the rod as you drive. It gets hit by the cylinder...
12-10-2009, 01:11 AM
#763
Tech Adept
have you guys put the o-rings in and did not change the length of the dampers themselfs? just thinking that when i compress the car completely to the ground the dampers are not fully compressed. so in my mind to get the o-rings to work "against traction roll" the dampers must not be the original length (approx. 61.5 mm) but shorter?? is this a correct way of thinking? how long are your shocks?
12-10-2009, 01:40 AM
#764
have you guys put the o-rings in and did not change the length of the dampers themselfs? just thinking that when i compress the car completely to the ground the dampers are not fully compressed. so in my mind to get the o-rings to work "against traction roll" the dampers must not be the original length (approx. 61.5 mm) but shorter?? is this a correct way of thinking? how long are your shocks?
use 2 if you think 1 isnt enough
12-10-2009, 05:47 AM
#765
Apex,
For the 416X you don't need any option parts as this kit is complete and ready to race.
The only part is I suggest is the titanium turnbuckles for the steering.
Jonny,
All Orion modified motors come with 12.4mm rotors. For 5.5T I suggest gearing between 7.0 - 8.5, depends on the track length. Timing 2mm.
Toh WL,
Honestly I never try any other motor then the Orion 11.5T.
At my last race in Indonesia my Orion motor was unbeatable on the straight away compare to the other racers in Indonesia.
Dameetz,
1) For example with the TA-05 blocks you add 1mm shim, this is the same as 4mm with the regular suspension blocks.
2) The downstop 6 and 5mm are set with a ride height of 4.5 and 5mm.
So for example when you need to run 5.5 and 6mm ride height I suggest to use 5 and 4mm downstop.
3) My Nosram setting is 1,2,0,1, timing 1.5mm with a 4.0T motor, FDR around 8.5
4) Shorten the front camber link or 1mm less camberlink spacer. Stand up the front shock by 1 position.
Energydrink,
This all depends on what surface, type of tyre etc. Please give me more info.
srw_g,
Have done not much tests at RCA and the traction is changing all the time. Next week will have the Futuba race at RCA but unfortunate we need to use the Ride tyres which are not same as the TITC tyres. As soon I have the tyres for tests for the TITC I will keep you updated.
kschu,
The fastest body is the LTC. When the traction is good enough this body is the fastest.
I have been reading all the comments of the o-ring on the dampers and I honestly must say that adding 1 o-ring isn't enough to really feel the different on traction rolling. I suggest to use 2 o-ring as the o-ring is most of the time so soft that it will compres a lot . I normally used the o-ring to set the right rebound for shocks for carpet indoor races.
Jilles
For the 416X you don't need any option parts as this kit is complete and ready to race.
The only part is I suggest is the titanium turnbuckles for the steering.
Jonny,
All Orion modified motors come with 12.4mm rotors. For 5.5T I suggest gearing between 7.0 - 8.5, depends on the track length. Timing 2mm.
Toh WL,
Honestly I never try any other motor then the Orion 11.5T.
At my last race in Indonesia my Orion motor was unbeatable on the straight away compare to the other racers in Indonesia.
Dameetz,
1) For example with the TA-05 blocks you add 1mm shim, this is the same as 4mm with the regular suspension blocks.
2) The downstop 6 and 5mm are set with a ride height of 4.5 and 5mm.
So for example when you need to run 5.5 and 6mm ride height I suggest to use 5 and 4mm downstop.
3) My Nosram setting is 1,2,0,1, timing 1.5mm with a 4.0T motor, FDR around 8.5
4) Shorten the front camber link or 1mm less camberlink spacer. Stand up the front shock by 1 position.
Energydrink,
This all depends on what surface, type of tyre etc. Please give me more info.
srw_g,
Have done not much tests at RCA and the traction is changing all the time. Next week will have the Futuba race at RCA but unfortunate we need to use the Ride tyres which are not same as the TITC tyres. As soon I have the tyres for tests for the TITC I will keep you updated.
kschu,
The fastest body is the LTC. When the traction is good enough this body is the fastest.
I have been reading all the comments of the o-ring on the dampers and I honestly must say that adding 1 o-ring isn't enough to really feel the different on traction rolling. I suggest to use 2 o-ring as the o-ring is most of the time so soft that it will compres a lot . I normally used the o-ring to set the right rebound for shocks for carpet indoor races.
Jilles