143LikesAwesomatix EP Touring Car (A700 Shaft Drive)
10-04-2013, 10:50 AM
#4442
Huh? grams per millimeter is a wheel spring rate, isn't it? I seem to remember Oleg explaining that he looked at the apring rates and motion ratios of competitive cars to valculate their wheel rates, in order to determine the starting point for the A700. You should be able to go the other way, no?
-Mike
-Mike
10-04-2013, 01:39 PM
#4444
Tech Fanatic
10-04-2013, 01:50 PM
#4445
1 gf / mm * 0.001 kg / g * 2.2 lb / kg * 25.4 mm / in = 0.05588 lbf / in
58.6 gf/mm = 3.27 lbf / in
70.9 gf/mm = 3.96 lbf / in
That seems awfully soft for a wheel rate on a TC, though. But I'm not sure what a typical TC motion ratio is.
-Mike
10-04-2013, 02:30 PM
#4446
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
There's also a pounds force, too, though, isn't there? The force exerted by 1 pound at standard gravity. While grams force is the force exerted by 1 gram in standard gravity. Since both include gravity, you can just ignore gravity and compare grams to pounds.
1 gf / mm * 0.001 kg / g * 2.2 lb / kg * 25.4 mm / in = 0.05588 lbf / in
58.6 gf/mm = 3.27 lbf / in
70.9 gf/mm = 3.96 lbf / in
That seems awfully soft for a wheel rate on a TC, though. But I'm not sure what a typical TC motion ratio is.
-Mike
1 gf / mm * 0.001 kg / g * 2.2 lb / kg * 25.4 mm / in = 0.05588 lbf / in
58.6 gf/mm = 3.27 lbf / in
70.9 gf/mm = 3.96 lbf / in
That seems awfully soft for a wheel rate on a TC, though. But I'm not sure what a typical TC motion ratio is.
-Mike
The difference in suspension leverage, on the leaf spring, might have something to do with the lower numbers needed.
10-05-2013, 07:33 AM
#4449
Have a couple questions about the Larry and Mike setup sheet and a request for Oleg.
Mike/Larry Setup:
On the top deck there is only 1 screw shown. Is it with or without the screw collars? That leads me to this: Is there a way to add a checkbox next to the top deck that says with collars or something.
For the rear there is 2 holes this ball stud can be mounted in. What one is it? Also can this be added in the pdf.
Oleg: Anyway you can get some wider wheel hexes made for optional parts? Or can you just over engineer a way to make them adjustable!
I know you can use shims but there is a limit on how many you can use with some rims.
Mike/Larry Setup:
On the top deck there is only 1 screw shown. Is it with or without the screw collars? That leads me to this: Is there a way to add a checkbox next to the top deck that says with collars or something.
For the rear there is 2 holes this ball stud can be mounted in. What one is it? Also can this be added in the pdf.
Oleg: Anyway you can get some wider wheel hexes made for optional parts? Or can you just over engineer a way to make them adjustable!
I know you can use shims but there is a limit on how many you can use with some rims.
10-05-2013, 07:52 AM
#4450
Travis - #1 a single st09/red dot in the center of the top deck front and rear shows a "fixed" top deck design. Four other screws are used - 2 front, 2 rear.
#2 the setup sheet has only one hole. I use the hole that creates the shorter link (nearest to inside of car).
I"be never tested the different holes for the rear toe back to back in attempt to understand their perf impact.
#2 the setup sheet has only one hole. I use the hole that creates the shorter link (nearest to inside of car).
I"be never tested the different holes for the rear toe back to back in attempt to understand their perf impact.
10-05-2013, 07:59 AM
#4451
I don't think it matters to be close to the to 190mm. The wider the car, the less lateral grip you have. If you want to be wide to combat fears of traction rolls, I'd recommend just lowering your roll centers.
if you don't cut your axles (which is crazy to do indoors...) You could always use more and more wheel shims.
Take a look at Gees last two stock setups. There he adds a shim under the am06s. This widens the car -- which can make it easier to drive. His base shock settings are very aggressive so you have to be a "wheel" to hang on to them.
if you don't cut your axles (which is crazy to do indoors...) You could always use more and more wheel shims.
Take a look at Gees last two stock setups. There he adds a shim under the am06s. This widens the car -- which can make it easier to drive. His base shock settings are very aggressive so you have to be a "wheel" to hang on to them.
10-05-2013, 08:44 AM
#4452
I don't think it matters to be close to the to 190mm. The wider the car, the less lateral grip you have. If you want to be wide to combat fears of traction rolls, I'd recommend just lowering your roll centers.
if you don't cut your axles (which is crazy to do indoors...) You could always use more and more wheel shims.
Take a look at Gees last two stock setups. There he adds a shim under the am06s. This widens the car -- which can make it easier to drive. His base shock settings are very aggressive so you have to be a "wheel" to hang on to them.
if you don't cut your axles (which is crazy to do indoors...) You could always use more and more wheel shims.
Take a look at Gees last two stock setups. There he adds a shim under the am06s. This widens the car -- which can make it easier to drive. His base shock settings are very aggressive so you have to be a "wheel" to hang on to them.
I doubt this will happen, but I guy can dream can't he and it doesn't hurt to ask.
Last edited by Travis S; 10-05-2013 at 09:00 AM.
10-05-2013, 12:23 PM
#4454
Tech Fanatic
In case of sufficient inquiries we can produce the wider hexes of course.
But I would like to know first:
What is the width limit for USVTA cars?
What is the reason to get the wider USVTA car? Traction rolling issue or anything else?
10-05-2013, 01:05 PM
#4455
Tech Fanatic
....
Mike/Larry Setup:
On the top deck there is only 1 screw shown. Is it with or without the screw collars? That leads me to this: Is there a way to add a checkbox next to the top deck that says with collars or something.
For the rear there is 2 holes this ball stud can be mounted in. What one is it? Also can this be added in the pdf......
Mike/Larry Setup:
On the top deck there is only 1 screw shown. Is it with or without the screw collars? That leads me to this: Is there a way to add a checkbox next to the top deck that says with collars or something.
For the rear there is 2 holes this ball stud can be mounted in. What one is it? Also can this be added in the pdf......
So I have to explain again the main ideas of red dots in the flex settings of our setup sheet ( both for top deck and lower deck also):
#1. The red dot indicates that this point is fixed against any shifting ( lateral and longitudinal). You can provide it by screw or by AT21/AT21S/ST24 ball stud.
#2. ST09 under outer (side) screws/AT21/AT21S/ST24 on the top deck prevents the fixing of this point of top deck and it should be indicated without a red dot according to #1.
(This is due to ST09 are higher than top deck thickness and these outer holes are bigger than ST09 diameter).
#3. ST09 under the central screw on the top deck doesn't prevent the fixing of this central point against the lateral and longitudinal shifting as the central hole has exactly the same diameter as ST09.
So this point should be with red dot even with ST09 installed into this hole (according to #1).
In case of somebody will be able to transform these rules to the more clear and shorter form I will be very grateful.