8LikesCRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks
02-28-2009, 08:46 PM
#646
A couple of items I came across recently
Novak BEC for 1 cell LiPo increases the voltage to the receiver and servo! $40.00
http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=5474/135.0.18878.0.0.0.0
For motors needing huge pinions. A small spur, 60 tooth 48 pitch. I believe this fits our pan cars if you use a standard full size diff ring.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEY18&P=7
John
Novak BEC for 1 cell LiPo increases the voltage to the receiver and servo! $40.00
http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=5474/135.0.18878.0.0.0.0
For motors needing huge pinions. A small spur, 60 tooth 48 pitch. I believe this fits our pan cars if you use a standard full size diff ring.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEY18&P=7
John
02-28-2009, 09:05 PM
#647
Thanks. Would a true 'flat pan' chassis work better than one with cut-outs for batteries and weight-saving?
From the above I would assume so, as the air cannot be diverted upwards through the chassis, only sideways where the chassis plate stops. So the trick would be to prevent the air from escaping from the sides of the chassis, AND channel that air towards the rear diffuser. Although there still is the problem of the rear pod's lower plate cut-outs for the motor and attaching it to the main chassis...
Now on my EV10 I have a rather narrow main chassis plate (see first picture, second pic is with the pod attached...). It also has minimal cut-outs. The cut-out at the front is just below the graphite plate that holds the front suspension (perhaps perfectly suited for a small front diffuser?).
Now let's say I was to add a profiled undertray that fitted into the space between the chassis and the body that would 'catch' the air in two channels (one at each side of the chassis) and lead it towards the rear pod (inbetween the rear wheels and the actual pod). There's a couple of unused holes on the front of the lower pod plate that could be used to attach an elaborate diffuser that would first channel the air collected by the profiled undertray past the motor and then into the diffuser.
Any thoughts on whether this could have undesired effects? Too much downforce
? Might I get into trouble with the rear suspension needing to be hardened too much?
Weight is not an issue, my car is 150 grams too light with a lipo on board
.
Oh and before someone asks how I got my electronics installed on that car, you can see how in the last picture . So few room... 
From the above I would assume so, as the air cannot be diverted upwards through the chassis, only sideways where the chassis plate stops. So the trick would be to prevent the air from escaping from the sides of the chassis, AND channel that air towards the rear diffuser. Although there still is the problem of the rear pod's lower plate cut-outs for the motor and attaching it to the main chassis...
Now on my EV10 I have a rather narrow main chassis plate (see first picture, second pic is with the pod attached...). It also has minimal cut-outs. The cut-out at the front is just below the graphite plate that holds the front suspension (perhaps perfectly suited for a small front diffuser?).
Now let's say I was to add a profiled undertray that fitted into the space between the chassis and the body that would 'catch' the air in two channels (one at each side of the chassis) and lead it towards the rear pod (inbetween the rear wheels and the actual pod). There's a couple of unused holes on the front of the lower pod plate that could be used to attach an elaborate diffuser that would first channel the air collected by the profiled undertray past the motor and then into the diffuser.
Any thoughts on whether this could have undesired effects? Too much downforce
? Might I get into trouble with the rear suspension needing to be hardened too much?Weight is not an issue, my car is 150 grams too light with a lipo on board
.Oh and before someone asks how I got my electronics installed on that car, you can see how in the last picture
. So few room... who makes the outer link with the swivel on your upper A arm?
03-01-2009, 12:21 PM
#648
Tech Initiate
Edit: it took me a while to remember who still makes the part, but here you go: Cross of Japan makes them as an option for their FireForce F1 - Part CFP-016 (see http://www.rc-cross.com/page/F1%20GT_body.html).
Last edited by Thomas_H; 03-01-2009 at 11:01 PM. Reason: additional information
03-02-2009, 10:03 AM
#649
Trinity did from 1993 to 2002 or so... I think they're still available elsewhere. It's very adjustable, but be prepared to make a lot of use of your digital calipers to get both sides the same...
Edit: it took me a while to remember who still makes the part, but here you go: Cross of Japan makes them as an option for their FireForce F1 - Part CFP-016 (see http://www.rc-cross.com/page/F1%20GT_body.html).
Edit: it took me a while to remember who still makes the part, but here you go: Cross of Japan makes them as an option for their FireForce F1 - Part CFP-016 (see http://www.rc-cross.com/page/F1%20GT_body.html).
03-03-2009, 04:43 PM
#650
03-03-2009, 08:47 PM
#651
World GT bodies.
Nissan R34 in race trim. This car has raced at Lemans. This is the predecessor to the the more world wide available recent Nissan GTR (480 HP) all wheel drive. HPI body. Hmmm.
Nissan R34 in race trim. This car has raced at Lemans. This is the predecessor to the the more world wide available recent Nissan GTR (480 HP) all wheel drive. HPI body. Hmmm.
And John, thank you very much for your posts. I learned a lot about my own Gen X 10 and am developing my own ideas on improving the performance on my car. Keep up the great work!
Now I do have a question that I have been thinking about for my Gen X 10; what do you think about replacing the arm setup with Team Associated's front end pan car? Better yet, another thing I am thinking about is setting up F-1 type linkages, similar to the Speed Merchant 12th scale car. Have you experimented with this kind of setup before? If so, what are the pros and cons?
03-03-2009, 09:41 PM
#652
Harry-Thanks for the post. I have the HPI R34 body on the way for a test.
This is what I find having tried several variations of the strut front end. When set to the same settings there may appear to be differences, but then you make a few slight adjustments, say to caster, and then they feel much alike. Performance wise, I say a draw. I do like the ruggedness of the one piece non threaded kingpin and trailing axle steering block that you can have with an associated front end. Most associated suspensions I see use an inline aluminum axle, however, by choice. This weakens the front end and makes you prone to bending even the unthreaded kingpins. So durability can be better with the trailing axle (stronger bearings and kingpin resistant to bending) or the same with the Associated inline axle. The CRC suspension does have a couple of nice features which I like. Get the red Aluminum Caster blocks. Being able to adjust lower and upper pivot ball play is helpful as the suspension wears in. Adjusting out slack without shimming is very nice.
I plan to test an unthreaded kingpin in a modified CRC axle as my next test to see if the kingpin will stay put that way with just a blue loctited setscrew.
I don't like the F1 type front end much. Settings change in the crashes. It is more difficult to make precise changes to caster. I like the more typical upper arm a lot.
John
This is what I find having tried several variations of the strut front end. When set to the same settings there may appear to be differences, but then you make a few slight adjustments, say to caster, and then they feel much alike. Performance wise, I say a draw. I do like the ruggedness of the one piece non threaded kingpin and trailing axle steering block that you can have with an associated front end. Most associated suspensions I see use an inline aluminum axle, however, by choice. This weakens the front end and makes you prone to bending even the unthreaded kingpins. So durability can be better with the trailing axle (stronger bearings and kingpin resistant to bending) or the same with the Associated inline axle. The CRC suspension does have a couple of nice features which I like. Get the red Aluminum Caster blocks. Being able to adjust lower and upper pivot ball play is helpful as the suspension wears in. Adjusting out slack without shimming is very nice.
I plan to test an unthreaded kingpin in a modified CRC axle as my next test to see if the kingpin will stay put that way with just a blue loctited setscrew.
I don't like the F1 type front end much. Settings change in the crashes. It is more difficult to make precise changes to caster. I like the more typical upper arm a lot.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-03-2009 at 11:18 PM.
03-07-2009, 09:19 PM
#653
World GT Gen X 10
Our Outlaw World GT class for a 240 foot straight.
Electronics install for dusty outdoor track.
I had some favorable response to our outlaw Gen X 10 at Mikes-HobbyShop.com. To this end I took my World GT car and put it back to stock except it has long side plates to mount outboard body mounts. I used the original side plates to extend the long side plates forward and mounted my electronics there. I have mounted now for our Outlaw class
A Novak Havok speed control
A Novak 10.5 (the specified motor)
Orion 3800 LiPo (the specified motor)
CRC spec Rears (one of three brands of spec rears. also Jayco lilac and BSR lilac)
Any front tire ( I am quite sure from previous testing we are going to need purples on the high speed layout with a 10.5)
42 ounce weight. This is generously large. It will allow the use of large servos, heavy body posts, steel screws, etc. I added a couple of ounces of lead. It will also let the car have better forward grip through the dust. My experiments showed optimum performance here around 42-43 ounces for a pan car. With a stick LiPo you need to move weight back if possible.
Balancing the Car
First I put the car on two beams left wheels on one beam, right wheels on two beams. I put 2 ounces on the right and .5 ounces on the left to make weight and two have side to side balance. Then I put front wheels on a beam, rear wheels on two scales and used the tweak screws to equalize the load on the rear tires. Then I flipped the car around and had similar weights on the front. Withing .3-.5 ounces is OK. Notice I have a lot of weight rearward for forward grip on asphalt club races. On carpet move this weight forward and down.
There are photos of these procedure earlier in this thread and on my TC5 thread.
3-link Wide Pan Car Nerf Wings
This is something I am borrowing from the Oval guys. Every new oval chassis mounts the speed control right in front of the left rear tire. Now in my pic just imagine this is the left side. I built the right side wing first. There is room on it for the speed control, the capacitor, the body post nice and far out, the speed control switch. There will be an identical nerf wing on the other side. On this particular car it helped me straighten my lower links out by providing material for the support in the right place. I have a complex lightening hole pattern marked on the piece, but it it very light by itself. Note also that CRC added a nice nerf bar with foam bumper to the latest version of the battle axe. These things protect your axle from breakage.
These could be made for the narrow car as well and would fit the electronics back and low, but not quite as far back as on this car to clear the side plates.
John
Our Outlaw World GT class for a 240 foot straight.
Electronics install for dusty outdoor track.
I had some favorable response to our outlaw Gen X 10 at Mikes-HobbyShop.com. To this end I took my World GT car and put it back to stock except it has long side plates to mount outboard body mounts. I used the original side plates to extend the long side plates forward and mounted my electronics there. I have mounted now for our Outlaw class
A Novak Havok speed control
A Novak 10.5 (the specified motor)
Orion 3800 LiPo (the specified motor)
CRC spec Rears (one of three brands of spec rears. also Jayco lilac and BSR lilac)
Any front tire ( I am quite sure from previous testing we are going to need purples on the high speed layout with a 10.5)
42 ounce weight. This is generously large. It will allow the use of large servos, heavy body posts, steel screws, etc. I added a couple of ounces of lead. It will also let the car have better forward grip through the dust. My experiments showed optimum performance here around 42-43 ounces for a pan car. With a stick LiPo you need to move weight back if possible.
Balancing the Car
First I put the car on two beams left wheels on one beam, right wheels on two beams. I put 2 ounces on the right and .5 ounces on the left to make weight and two have side to side balance. Then I put front wheels on a beam, rear wheels on two scales and used the tweak screws to equalize the load on the rear tires. Then I flipped the car around and had similar weights on the front. Withing .3-.5 ounces is OK. Notice I have a lot of weight rearward for forward grip on asphalt club races. On carpet move this weight forward and down.
There are photos of these procedure earlier in this thread and on my TC5 thread.
3-link Wide Pan Car Nerf Wings
This is something I am borrowing from the Oval guys. Every new oval chassis mounts the speed control right in front of the left rear tire. Now in my pic just imagine this is the left side. I built the right side wing first. There is room on it for the speed control, the capacitor, the body post nice and far out, the speed control switch. There will be an identical nerf wing on the other side. On this particular car it helped me straighten my lower links out by providing material for the support in the right place. I have a complex lightening hole pattern marked on the piece, but it it very light by itself. Note also that CRC added a nice nerf bar with foam bumper to the latest version of the battle axe. These things protect your axle from breakage.
These could be made for the narrow car as well and would fit the electronics back and low, but not quite as far back as on this car to clear the side plates.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-08-2009 at 07:12 AM.
03-08-2009, 08:05 PM
#654
Nerf Wings
There is a long tradition of Nerf wings on pan cars. The first associated plastic Nerf wing was fairly terrible. When it broke it destroyed the rear tires. This happened a lot more often than rear axle breakage and wheel damage that it is supposed to protect. Later models like on the CRC Pantoura, and Darkside I-force ,are slender small pieces but quite stout graphite fiber pieces. Not only do they protect the axle, but they make subtle changes to the cars appearance. The appearance of a wicked blade in front of the wheel like the old Roman chariots is fine with me.
Now to put some more function for this part, it has to be smooth on top and big enough to load electronics there on a wide pan. The result will be a weight balance like the saddle pac six cell wide pan cars, but with a stick pack LiPo. This can be an optional part. I like it a lot already as I can move electronics back and have it down low while still maintaning good appearance. This should suit the traction of our new asphalt better as compared to having rear electronics mounted high. I think it looks a lot like a CRC part already. If you have a wide pan, run LiPo, and would like some nerf wings give CRC an e-mail. Maybe they will offer some as an option. It is quite a large piece of graphite so don't expect it to be too cheap. I would want some for my narrow car as well as I run it on outdoor asphalt and want electronics back. The weight of the part is quite low.
I am going to try to CAD this puppy up. That will be a first for me. I am pleased with the prototypes looks. Now only to make two more with the graphite pattern aligned with the chassis.
John
There is a long tradition of Nerf wings on pan cars. The first associated plastic Nerf wing was fairly terrible. When it broke it destroyed the rear tires. This happened a lot more often than rear axle breakage and wheel damage that it is supposed to protect. Later models like on the CRC Pantoura, and Darkside I-force ,are slender small pieces but quite stout graphite fiber pieces. Not only do they protect the axle, but they make subtle changes to the cars appearance. The appearance of a wicked blade in front of the wheel like the old Roman chariots is fine with me.
Now to put some more function for this part, it has to be smooth on top and big enough to load electronics there on a wide pan. The result will be a weight balance like the saddle pac six cell wide pan cars, but with a stick pack LiPo. This can be an optional part. I like it a lot already as I can move electronics back and have it down low while still maintaning good appearance. This should suit the traction of our new asphalt better as compared to having rear electronics mounted high. I think it looks a lot like a CRC part already. If you have a wide pan, run LiPo, and would like some nerf wings give CRC an e-mail. Maybe they will offer some as an option. It is quite a large piece of graphite so don't expect it to be too cheap. I would want some for my narrow car as well as I run it on outdoor asphalt and want electronics back. The weight of the part is quite low.
I am going to try to CAD this puppy up. That will be a first for me. I am pleased with the prototypes looks. Now only to make two more with the graphite pattern aligned with the chassis.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 03-08-2009 at 08:44 PM.
03-09-2009, 05:15 AM
#655
Question for pan car gurus.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
03-09-2009, 05:56 AM
#656
Question for pan car gurus.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
03-09-2009, 06:02 AM
#657
Question for pan car gurus.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
car is a GenX10.
problem is any left turns i do it spins out on half trottle pull while turning a corner big or small. even if im really delicate and smoothly pull the trottle it still very unstable.
but any Right turns i do it will never ever ever spin out or lose control no matter how hard i try. i can slam full trottle while doing a tight turn and still will never spin out. i would love it if the left turns did this as well. pretty much at a dead stop with wheels turned all the way left, it will spin like a top. turned all the way to the right i will never spin dounuts.
any fixes i can do for the left turn on trottle spin outs?
Genx10 with P905 body, 3600 lipo, 13.5 novak. with 235mm extension. pinks front and rear.
hope i made sense.
thanks in advance.
03-09-2009, 07:29 AM
#658
This souns like a typical tweak problem.
Place coins on both front wheels so they almost fall off.
Remove or disconnect the damper tubes.
Find the center of the front of the car and lift it slowly with a knife.
If one coin falls earlier you have a tweaked car.
Adjust the pre-tension on the rear pod springs so that the coins fall the same time.
One other thing is to compare left and right tire size.
They should be within 1 mm.
Best swap left and right tires at least every other run.
Place coins on both front wheels so they almost fall off.
Remove or disconnect the damper tubes.
Find the center of the front of the car and lift it slowly with a knife.
If one coin falls earlier you have a tweaked car.
Adjust the pre-tension on the rear pod springs so that the coins fall the same time.
One other thing is to compare left and right tire size.
They should be within 1 mm.
Best swap left and right tires at least every other run.
03-09-2009, 04:18 PM
#660
got some trc 1/10th foams for sell in the sale tread.