1LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing
09-11-2009, 05:22 AM
#6169
This ends up being (probably) true if everyone is running the FDR-restricted 2s / 21.5 combo which, I guess, is generally the only relevant consideration atm (other than a few clubs like ours). What would happen, though, if you were running the other allowed combos at the same time is that you took away their ONE advantage being unrestricted (and, theoretically, faster on the straight) and played further into the hands of the restricted 2s / 21.5 car by removing it's sole "disadvantage".
It's probably impossible to find the one magic bullet that makes everything equal short of spec'ing esc and motor. From that point it's car setup and driving...PURE racing ala the closest classes in "real" racing. Heck, the CLOSEST classes of all spec chassis as well, but I can already hear the unholy crap-storm brewing over THAT idea...
It's probably impossible to find the one magic bullet that makes everything equal short of spec'ing esc and motor. From that point it's car setup and driving...PURE racing ala the closest classes in "real" racing. Heck, the CLOSEST classes of all spec chassis as well, but I can already hear the unholy crap-storm brewing over THAT idea...
) - the esc, motor, battery, chassis, body, wheels and tires. Everyone's always talking about a "level playing-field" But no one, truely, wants to be subjected to that many restriction. Do they? No they don't. Racers like choices or options. They always want bigger and better / latest and greatest. To make matters worse, you have far too many racers who will do anything to win. Bend or break every rule they can. I'm mean, really, how mant tracks are really teching the way they should for a spec class? I say spec out a cheaper speedo, say the Novak Havoc 3S ($99.), an in-expensive chassis, that's fully tuneable like the Hot Bodies Cyclone S ($150) or maybe the Xray T2R ($200+). The Cyclone would be the better choice for a supposed low-budget, spec class. It's that or just open it up to any manufacturer and choose a different one (company) per season for the motor and speedo combo. Which I like because the other rc companies get a chance to have their product bought for spec classes, too. We need to keep the advancement of technology moving forward and the rc industry strong. You know, changing the motor can be a very good thing.
09-11-2009, 07:31 AM
#6170
I hate to agree because I dont like what you are saying, but I think you are right. Even if you spec'd everything but the chassis, some guys would find the one chassis that seems to have an advantage. Even if if was something almost obscure like the corally Assasin. Or an old shaft drive car that did well in the past like the Yokomo LCG.
09-11-2009, 07:52 AM
#6171
Hi everyone,
A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:
Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?
What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details
Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?
Thanks,
AndyH
hpi racing usa
A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:
Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?
What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details
Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?
Thanks,
AndyH
hpi racing usa
09-11-2009, 11:21 AM
#6172
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
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Midwest Great Lakes USVTA series 2009/10
2009/10 Hurricane All-Star Carpet Series/Midwest Great Lakes USVTA series……5th year for the All-Star Series
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5945164-post1.html RC Tech page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hurric...s/102677532856 Facebook page
7 total races for VTA only…..5 races in are All-Star races where all classes will be run
October 3rd-The Track @ Harbor Hobbies in Winthrop Harbor, IL
http://www.harbor-hobby.net/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
November 7th-Victory RC Raceway in Green Bay, WI
http://www.victoryhobbies.com/index.html
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
November 15th-Summit Raceway--Fort Wayne, IN
www.summitrcraceway.com VTA ONLY
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
December 12th-RC Performance in Madison, WI
http://www.rcperformance.com/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
December 19th- Michiana RC Raceway--Mishawaka, IN
http://www.michianarc.com VTA ONLY
Doors open at 10am local time racing at 1pm
January 23rd-S&N Trackside in Brookfield, WI
http://www.trackside.com/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
February 20th-The Track @ Harbor Hobbies in Winthrop Harbor, IL
http://www.harbor-hobby.net/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
Trans AM
Only HPI part #4797 31mm Rear and #4793 26mm Front Vintage compound treaded tires with stock inserts are allowed.
Tires must have full visible tread on tire at first qualifier of the day.
Only Novak 21.5 motors are allowed.
All Current USVTA rules will be followed
No 1-ways are allowed…..cars must be full time 4 wheel drive all the time
Out of the 7 total races only your best 5 results will count towards your awards.
Awards will be handed out at the final race on Feb. 20th
For more information see the above links for the full thread here on RC Tech and join us on Facebook as well.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/5945164-post1.html RC Tech page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hurric...s/102677532856 Facebook page
7 total races for VTA only…..5 races in are All-Star races where all classes will be run
October 3rd-The Track @ Harbor Hobbies in Winthrop Harbor, IL
http://www.harbor-hobby.net/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
November 7th-Victory RC Raceway in Green Bay, WI
http://www.victoryhobbies.com/index.html
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
November 15th-Summit Raceway--Fort Wayne, IN
www.summitrcraceway.com VTA ONLY
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
December 12th-RC Performance in Madison, WI
http://www.rcperformance.com/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
December 19th- Michiana RC Raceway--Mishawaka, IN
http://www.michianarc.com VTA ONLY
Doors open at 10am local time racing at 1pm
January 23rd-S&N Trackside in Brookfield, WI
http://www.trackside.com/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
February 20th-The Track @ Harbor Hobbies in Winthrop Harbor, IL
http://www.harbor-hobby.net/
Doors open at 8am racing at 12pm local time
Trans AM
Only HPI part #4797 31mm Rear and #4793 26mm Front Vintage compound treaded tires with stock inserts are allowed.
Tires must have full visible tread on tire at first qualifier of the day.
Only Novak 21.5 motors are allowed.
All Current USVTA rules will be followed
No 1-ways are allowed…..cars must be full time 4 wheel drive all the time
Out of the 7 total races only your best 5 results will count towards your awards.
Awards will be handed out at the final race on Feb. 20th
For more information see the above links for the full thread here on RC Tech and join us on Facebook as well.
Last edited by Kevin K; 09-11-2009 at 01:24 PM.
09-12-2009, 07:15 PM
#6173
Had a pretty good day of testing today. We went in a different direction than I have been talking about.
*After thinking about it, my theme lately has been "turn that s*** down!!" By that i mean reduce the boost, timing advance, etc. This worked remarkably well. After playing around, it looks like an SPX on profile 1 runs about the same as 10* advance on the other controllers. We put 10* on a SpeedPassion 1.1 and a Tekin RS, and the speeds down the straight were almost identical. No turbo boost was used, only 10* of advance. The motors were maxed out on physical timing. The cars were very, very close on speed on all parts of the track.
I want to try this with KO, Novak, other lrps, but I think this may wind up being a very good solution. I recommend you give this a try to see if it works for you.
*We tried several different FDRs. The strangest part about this was that the cars actually stayed at the same lap time or got faster.
It actually turned out that it helped with the timing situation, as it illustrated that the LRP had some timing even on the #1 setting. The LRP gained an advantage as we went numerically higher on the FDR when the SP was set to 0* timing.
The other thing was that while the cars were slower on the straight, they picked up a lot of time in the infield as we went up on gear. I think that's why the difference in ESCs becomes obvious as you go to larger tracks, especially asphalt. The advantage is pronounced there.
The FDR may change, if it will slow things down without having to chage batteries or motors.
*After thinking about it, my theme lately has been "turn that s*** down!!" By that i mean reduce the boost, timing advance, etc. This worked remarkably well. After playing around, it looks like an SPX on profile 1 runs about the same as 10* advance on the other controllers. We put 10* on a SpeedPassion 1.1 and a Tekin RS, and the speeds down the straight were almost identical. No turbo boost was used, only 10* of advance. The motors were maxed out on physical timing. The cars were very, very close on speed on all parts of the track.
I want to try this with KO, Novak, other lrps, but I think this may wind up being a very good solution. I recommend you give this a try to see if it works for you.
*We tried several different FDRs. The strangest part about this was that the cars actually stayed at the same lap time or got faster.
It actually turned out that it helped with the timing situation, as it illustrated that the LRP had some timing even on the #1 setting. The LRP gained an advantage as we went numerically higher on the FDR when the SP was set to 0* timing. The other thing was that while the cars were slower on the straight, they picked up a lot of time in the infield as we went up on gear. I think that's why the difference in ESCs becomes obvious as you go to larger tracks, especially asphalt. The advantage is pronounced there.
The FDR may change, if it will slow things down without having to chage batteries or motors.
Last edited by robk; 09-12-2009 at 10:15 PM.
09-14-2009, 01:32 AM
#6174
Hi everyone,
A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:
Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?
What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details
Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?
Thanks,
AndyH
hpi racing usa
A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:
Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?
What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details
Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?
Thanks,
AndyH
hpi racing usa
For example:
1. A 200mm TW x 247mm WB would be perfect for a '68 AMX (though a 2 seater like the GT-350, the GT-350 is allowed). I dunno how easy this would be to achieve for other makes, but $50 will upgrade all but the most entry level Tamyia chassis to this configuration (TA04-SS arms+TG-10 wide axles/spacers) [BTW-since the GT-350 really wasn't T/A like the '65 Vette and later the AMX, I vote include the '65 Vette in VTA, but I digress].
2. A 190 x 257 67-70 Mustang/Cougar (oh what I wouldn't give for a lid of a 1970 Cougar Eliminator)
3. A 190 x 251 '64 Falcon Rally Sprint/65 mustang coupe.
4. A 190 x 257 '64-66 Dodge Dart GT/Plymouth Valliant (and/or Barracuda...you KNOW those 1st gen Barracuda guys are nuts and you could sell a BAZILLION E-10's under a '64 Barracuda lid, but it would look stupid at 200mm).
It's just my sixpence, and I know I am a nerd who does things as much for the sake of being different as anything, but so much effort has been put into making sure this calss remains 'scale' in terms of speed and the highly limited lid choices, I think some consideration should be given to us, the 190mm crowd.
just my sixpence,
-M
09-14-2009, 01:38 AM
#6175
Wouldn't hurt to see a 190mm body of some of the great classic bowtie cars like the 69 Nova (which correct me if I am wrong ran a few TA races no?)or Chevelle even though they were just the muscle cars or if someone would please make a firebird and hell yeah light buckets would really make em stand out.
09-14-2009, 04:16 AM
#6176
Wouldn't hurt to see a 190mm body of some of the great classic bowtie cars like the 69 Nova (which correct me if I am wrong ran a few TA races no?)or Chevelle even though they were just the muscle cars or if someone would please make a firebird and hell yeah light buckets would really make em stand out.
at this stage its just easier for HPI to keep them at 200mm so that the bodies can be used on BOTH electric and nitro touring chassis
I understand for looks, 190 might be better - but for practicality, the 200mm is the better way to go
09-14-2009, 07:27 AM
#6177
[QUOTE=robk;6335812]
*We tried several different FDRs. The strangest part about this was that the cars actually stayed at the same lap time or got faster. It actually turned out that it helped with the timing situation, as it illustrated that the LRP had some timing even on the #1 setting. The LRP gained an advantage as we went numerically higher on the FDR when the SP was set to 0* timing.
QUOTE]
We pretty much found the same thing. Not taking into account the timing advance/boost speedos you have to go a long way with the FDR with a 21.5 FDR to get a real noticeable speed difference. Our 5.0 slows the cars somewhat but not much on lap times as you found. We are finding that you almost have to go to a 6.0 to really get them to slow down.
*We tried several different FDRs. The strangest part about this was that the cars actually stayed at the same lap time or got faster.
It actually turned out that it helped with the timing situation, as it illustrated that the LRP had some timing even on the #1 setting. The LRP gained an advantage as we went numerically higher on the FDR when the SP was set to 0* timing. QUOTE]
We pretty much found the same thing. Not taking into account the timing advance/boost speedos you have to go a long way with the FDR with a 21.5 FDR to get a real noticeable speed difference. Our 5.0 slows the cars somewhat but not much on lap times as you found. We are finding that you almost have to go to a 6.0 to really get them to slow down.
09-14-2009, 08:38 AM
#6178
I got to run at a really fun location this weekend. It was a small paved track 20' from the beach! Anyway....
The straightaways were short but plentiful, something on the order of 30-40' per straightaway, and with a gaggle of Tekin RSs in the field, not one of them was getting into the turbo boost, KERS, 2nd gear, solid rocket stage, whatever you want to call it. It just goes to show that track layout can have a siginificant impact on the results, in a good way.
The straightaways were short but plentiful, something on the order of 30-40' per straightaway, and with a gaggle of Tekin RSs in the field, not one of them was getting into the turbo boost, KERS, 2nd gear, solid rocket stage, whatever you want to call it. It just goes to show that track layout can have a siginificant impact on the results, in a good way.
09-14-2009, 08:45 AM
#6179
I got to run at a really fun location this weekend. It was a small paved track 20' from the beach! Anyway....
The straightaways were short but plentiful, something on the order of 30-40' per straightaway, and with a gaggle of Tekin RSs in the field, not one of them was getting into the turbo boost, KERS, 2nd gear, solid rocket stage, whatever you want to call it. It just goes to show that track layout can have a siginificant impact on the results, in a good way.
The straightaways were short but plentiful, something on the order of 30-40' per straightaway, and with a gaggle of Tekin RSs in the field, not one of them was getting into the turbo boost, KERS, 2nd gear, solid rocket stage, whatever you want to call it. It just goes to show that track layout can have a siginificant impact on the results, in a good way.
I missed that!
09-14-2009, 09:16 AM
#6180
hello everyone. I picked up a 1/10 touring chassis to run in the VTA class, but I have a few questions concerning the class.
- Are there any plans to allow the Novak Ballistic 21.5 motor? I like how the sensor wire is not attached to the motor, and from what I have heard, it has similar performance of the current legal 21.5
- Is the current body list shown on the website up to date?
- has there been discussion of 1S lipo usage in 21.5? I notice another place using there own form of VTA with 1S lipo and 17.5:
- Are there any plans to allow the Novak Ballistic 21.5 motor? I like how the sensor wire is not attached to the motor, and from what I have heard, it has similar performance of the current legal 21.5
- Is the current body list shown on the website up to date?
- has there been discussion of 1S lipo usage in 21.5? I notice another place using there own form of VTA with 1S lipo and 17.5:
MMR VintageTrans-Am Club Spec Rules and Specifications
Body Specifications:
Body provided deck lid spoilers allowed (not wings). No additional skirts or raised/extended wings or air control surfaces allowed. Body must be trimmed
at body trim lines. Full rear bumper required.
Tire & Wheel Specifications:
HPI tire part #4793 front and #4797 rear, stock tire inserts provided with tire and any HPI Vintage wheels designed to fit.
26mm width fronts and 31mm width rear tires. 8-spoke Vintage wheels from #3805 through #3814, 5-spoke Vintage wheels from #3815 through #3822 and Vintage stock car
wheels from #3854 through #3860 are all legal wheels.
Grinding of tire tread is NOT permitted. Sanding of mold seam to remove seam is allowed.
Tires must have visible tread.
Chassis Specification:
Four Wheel Drive touring car chassis only. Tires must fit within the body.
Motor Specifications:
Option 1: 27-turn ROAR stock motor: ROAR motor rules apply for 27 turn.
Option 2: 17.5 brushless motor: ROAR Motor Rules for 17.5
Battery Specifications:
3-cell NiCd or NiMh batteries
1-cell LiPo hard cased
Ride Height Specification:
Minimum ride height is 5mm.
Weight Specification:
Minimum 1280g Lipo
Race Specification:
5 minute Qualifiers Heats are run “heads up” with horn starts. Shuffling of start order for each round with slowest qualifier first and fastest qualifier last
9 Minute Mains: Starting grind should have cars aligned at angles along a side wall of the track.
Body List:
HPI part numbers:
17510 - 1970 Plymouth AAR 'Cuda
17519 - 1966 Ford Mustang GT
17508 - 1965 Ford Shelby GT-350
7494 - 1968 Chevrolet Camaro
17526- 1969 Chevrolet Corvette
Parma part numbers:
10143 - 1969 Z28 Camaro
10141 - 1970 Boss Mustang
10113 - 1970 'Cuda
Pegasus Hobbies part numbers:
PGH4001 - 1970 Camaro SS
PGH4002 - 1970 'Cuda
PGH4003 - 1970 Mustang
Body Specifications:
Body provided deck lid spoilers allowed (not wings). No additional skirts or raised/extended wings or air control surfaces allowed. Body must be trimmed
at body trim lines. Full rear bumper required.
Tire & Wheel Specifications:
HPI tire part #4793 front and #4797 rear, stock tire inserts provided with tire and any HPI Vintage wheels designed to fit.
26mm width fronts and 31mm width rear tires. 8-spoke Vintage wheels from #3805 through #3814, 5-spoke Vintage wheels from #3815 through #3822 and Vintage stock car
wheels from #3854 through #3860 are all legal wheels.
Grinding of tire tread is NOT permitted. Sanding of mold seam to remove seam is allowed.
Tires must have visible tread.
Chassis Specification:
Four Wheel Drive touring car chassis only. Tires must fit within the body.
Motor Specifications:
Option 1: 27-turn ROAR stock motor: ROAR motor rules apply for 27 turn.
Option 2: 17.5 brushless motor: ROAR Motor Rules for 17.5
Battery Specifications:
3-cell NiCd or NiMh batteries
1-cell LiPo hard cased
Ride Height Specification:
Minimum ride height is 5mm.
Weight Specification:
Minimum 1280g Lipo
Race Specification:
5 minute Qualifiers Heats are run “heads up” with horn starts. Shuffling of start order for each round with slowest qualifier first and fastest qualifier last
9 Minute Mains: Starting grind should have cars aligned at angles along a side wall of the track.
Body List:
HPI part numbers:
17510 - 1970 Plymouth AAR 'Cuda
17519 - 1966 Ford Mustang GT
17508 - 1965 Ford Shelby GT-350
7494 - 1968 Chevrolet Camaro
17526- 1969 Chevrolet Corvette
Parma part numbers:
10143 - 1969 Z28 Camaro
10141 - 1970 Boss Mustang
10113 - 1970 'Cuda
Pegasus Hobbies part numbers:
PGH4001 - 1970 Camaro SS
PGH4002 - 1970 'Cuda
PGH4003 - 1970 Mustang