ROAR B/L motor Rules debate thread
#121
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
After reading through all these posts it sounds like the BL classes that are somewhat being agreed on are 17.5 (STOCK), 10.5 (new 19T), and Mod (Open to BR/BL).
The way I look at this is, ROAR needs to make a decision that will allow BL in all classes, period. If it is decided that stock will stay "BR only", it will force newbies away from Stock. The next class up for BL would be 10.5/19T, and newbies will get highly discouraged in that class. A newbie does not want to break tons of parts and get their asses handed to them all the time, thus all the discussion about slowing down stock.
Something we all need to realize it that GEN-Y wants more instant gratification. Investing time and money into learning how to tune and rebuild BR motors just doesn't interest most of GEN-Y. This group need to be able to race on a single motor and battery all day. This is why we have seen LiPo and BL invigorating the hobby a little. But not having RULES to allow them across the board is still hampering the hobby.
Regarding LiPo's, am I understanding Dawn correctly in stating that LiPo would only be allowed in Stock? If so, why? It's been established that LiPo is cheaper and slightly slower than NiMh packs.
What would really make "STOCK" Sedan Class racing cheap and intersting would be to require 27T/17.5 BL motors, LiPo 7.4V battery, and rubber tires. This would help make STOCK racing attendance increase by lowering the cost greatly.
The way I look at this is, ROAR needs to make a decision that will allow BL in all classes, period. If it is decided that stock will stay "BR only", it will force newbies away from Stock. The next class up for BL would be 10.5/19T, and newbies will get highly discouraged in that class. A newbie does not want to break tons of parts and get their asses handed to them all the time, thus all the discussion about slowing down stock.
Something we all need to realize it that GEN-Y wants more instant gratification. Investing time and money into learning how to tune and rebuild BR motors just doesn't interest most of GEN-Y. This group need to be able to race on a single motor and battery all day. This is why we have seen LiPo and BL invigorating the hobby a little. But not having RULES to allow them across the board is still hampering the hobby.
Regarding LiPo's, am I understanding Dawn correctly in stating that LiPo would only be allowed in Stock? If so, why? It's been established that LiPo is cheaper and slightly slower than NiMh packs.
What would really make "STOCK" Sedan Class racing cheap and intersting would be to require 27T/17.5 BL motors, LiPo 7.4V battery, and rubber tires. This would help make STOCK racing attendance increase by lowering the cost greatly.
#122
Don't lump us com turners into one group, the majority of these people that I have met, really do enjoy rebuilding and tweeking brushed motors, we consider it part of "racing"
Everyone that races is looking for an edge, from tires/foams to chassis all the way to different bodies, why leave out the art of building "race" motors?
Isn't the motor the main part of racing?
In nitro, why are there all kinds of "builders" on the market, ...
Everyone that races is looking for an edge, from tires/foams to chassis all the way to different bodies, why leave out the art of building "race" motors?
Isn't the motor the main part of racing?
In nitro, why are there all kinds of "builders" on the market, ...
Dawn, Since ROAR represents it's members how about a ballot vote on the opinons of those members. I'm not against BL but I also don't want BR to Die. I run 13.5 BL in T/C were BR motors recieve the most abuse but have had well tuned BR motors keep up. I've tried 13.5 in 1/12 it is faster, perhpas these motors should be rated differently, say T/C stock differs from 1/12 stock, That would allow BL to run with BR at least for a year or 2 and perhaps we will just see the BR thing go away.
#123
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
I havent read through all the post but these are my thoughts:
Stock - 27T brushed only
19T Brushed - Get rid of it
10.5 or 13.5 brushless spec class (if you absolutely had to allow brushed in this class then make it a 19T brushed / 10.5 class)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
allow lipo in all classes.
Now that is what I believe could work. What I would really like to see:
Stock - 27T brushed only
13.5 / lipo spec class (with a lower weight)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
In the scenario above I believe we would finally see most of the membership move up to the "spec" class and we would truly have a stock/"novice" class.
Stock - 27T brushed only
19T Brushed - Get rid of it
10.5 or 13.5 brushless spec class (if you absolutely had to allow brushed in this class then make it a 19T brushed / 10.5 class)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
allow lipo in all classes.
Now that is what I believe could work. What I would really like to see:
Stock - 27T brushed only
13.5 / lipo spec class (with a lower weight)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
In the scenario above I believe we would finally see most of the membership move up to the "spec" class and we would truly have a stock/"novice" class.
#124
A 17.5 in T/C will not keep up with a tuned BR, we've tried it, no matter wear it's geared it is slower in the infield and straights.
#125
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
I havent read through all the post but these are my thoughts:
Stock - 27T brushed only
19T Brushed - Get rid of it
10.5 or 13.5 brushless spec class (if you absolutely had to allow brushed in this class then make it a 19T brushed / 10.5 class)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
allow lipo in all classes.
Now that is what I believe could work. What I would really like to see:
Stock - 27T brushed only
13.5 / lipo spec class (with a lower weight)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
In the scenario above I believe we would finally see most of the membership move up to the "spec" class and we would truly have a stock/"novice" class.
Stock - 27T brushed only
19T Brushed - Get rid of it
10.5 or 13.5 brushless spec class (if you absolutely had to allow brushed in this class then make it a 19T brushed / 10.5 class)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
allow lipo in all classes.
Now that is what I believe could work. What I would really like to see:
Stock - 27T brushed only
13.5 / lipo spec class (with a lower weight)
Mod (brushed or brushless)
In the scenario above I believe we would finally see most of the membership move up to the "spec" class and we would truly have a stock/"novice" class.
...and since the motor is slower in a sedan fast guys will want to move up to 10.5.
#126
Don't lump us com turners into one group, the majority of these people that I have met, really do enjoy rebuilding and tweeking brushed motors, we consider it part of "racing"
Everyone that races is looking for an edge, from tires/foams to chassis all the way to different bodies, why leave out the art of building "race" motors?
Isn't the motor the main part of racing?
In nitro, why are there all kinds of "builders" on the market, well, to find a stronger faster engine.
You want to kill the heart of racing and force us all to use the standard "box" motor?
Leave BL to mod, keep "racing" in all the other classes!
Everyone that races is looking for an edge, from tires/foams to chassis all the way to different bodies, why leave out the art of building "race" motors?
Isn't the motor the main part of racing?
In nitro, why are there all kinds of "builders" on the market, well, to find a stronger faster engine.
You want to kill the heart of racing and force us all to use the standard "box" motor?
Leave BL to mod, keep "racing" in all the other classes!
#127
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
Yeah I guess you are right. Assuming true novice racers are really pushing motors like the rest of us are then it is a maintenance nightmare. But I guess it gets back to the "cost of entry" vs "long term cost" dilemma. ROAR seems to want to keep the cost of entry down as to grow the hobby. Which is all good and well but the secret we all know is that long-term it is costing them more. If we really want to keep the cost of entry down then the stock class should be the closed endbell silver can motors (until brushless can get down in price).
#128
Tech Elite
I believe we will have Lipo usage in all classes... except 1/12th at this point in time. Lipo is just another battery source - no clear advantage over metal batteries - when weight specifications are required, met and maintained ... from what I see.
We will know more in about 10 days when we finalize the 2008 rule book.
#129
Tech Elite
If we had the time to do this, we would offer an online 'advisory vote' to the Excom on this topic. Unfortunatley, we do not as we must get the 2008 rule book out by the end of the month. Teh Excom meets in about 10 days and we have already had several discussions regarding this.
Honestly, we will have to make decisions for the long term health of the hobby. Yep, I know we'll have some mud slung at me for the decision by some and we'll be praised by others.....
#130
Dawn
If Roar decides to not use handouts at Nationals...
Include in the spec`s for the new Brushless stock to include a sealed can so it will be taper proof...
Otherwise , there will be a lack of credibility in the legality of the motor`s and spec racing will suffer as a result...
If Roar does not include this specification the door will be wide open for anyone to tune their motor for a advantage...
Not good....
If Roar decides to not use handouts at Nationals...
Include in the spec`s for the new Brushless stock to include a sealed can so it will be taper proof...
Otherwise , there will be a lack of credibility in the legality of the motor`s and spec racing will suffer as a result...
If Roar does not include this specification the door will be wide open for anyone to tune their motor for a advantage...
Not good....
#131
Tech Elite
#132
Lets face it brushless is the future, and the rules should have already been submitted.
Here are practice lap times from the Novak race:
These are for foam:
13.5 best 10.2
10.5 not many people running yet most are the same as 13.5 times
Mod most are 9.8-9.9, Blackstock ran 9.6 but said he was going to slow it down some, too in consistant.
13.5 is just way too fast for regular stock racers only .4th off of Mod. Stock has to be 17.5 or higher.
13.5 and 10.5 are almost the same so pick one. They are too close to each other and we only need one or the other.
Let's use the Novak race as a barometer to see what works and get some rules submitted.
The biggest problem is the cars are way too fast. We need to drop down to 4 or 5 cells in order to grow this hobby. Lipo is not the answer because the voltage is just too high.
Wisconsin has come up with a new Trans Am class 4 cell brushed and everyone is having a blast. Car are slower but the racing is way closer and a blast to watch, and the cars don't break since they are going slower.
Here are practice lap times from the Novak race:
These are for foam:
13.5 best 10.2
10.5 not many people running yet most are the same as 13.5 times
Mod most are 9.8-9.9, Blackstock ran 9.6 but said he was going to slow it down some, too in consistant.
13.5 is just way too fast for regular stock racers only .4th off of Mod. Stock has to be 17.5 or higher.
13.5 and 10.5 are almost the same so pick one. They are too close to each other and we only need one or the other.
Let's use the Novak race as a barometer to see what works and get some rules submitted.
The biggest problem is the cars are way too fast. We need to drop down to 4 or 5 cells in order to grow this hobby. Lipo is not the answer because the voltage is just too high.
Wisconsin has come up with a new Trans Am class 4 cell brushed and everyone is having a blast. Car are slower but the racing is way closer and a blast to watch, and the cars don't break since they are going slower.
#133
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
Dawn
If Roar decides to not use handouts at Nationals...
Include in the spec`s for the new Brushless stock to include a sealed can so it will be taper proof...
Otherwise , there will be a lack of credibility in the legality of the motor`s and spec racing will suffer as a result...
If Roar does not include this specification the door will be wide open for anyone to tune their motor for a advantage...
Not good....
If Roar decides to not use handouts at Nationals...
Include in the spec`s for the new Brushless stock to include a sealed can so it will be taper proof...
Otherwise , there will be a lack of credibility in the legality of the motor`s and spec racing will suffer as a result...
If Roar does not include this specification the door will be wide open for anyone to tune their motor for a advantage...
Not good....
#135
Tech Champion
iTrader: (38)
Lets face it brushless is the future, and the rules should have already been submitted.
Here are practice lap times from the Novak race:
These are for foam:
13.5 best 10.2
10.5 not many people running yet most are the same as 13.5 times
Mod most are 9.8-9.9, Blackstock ran 9.6 but said he was going to slow it down some, too in consistant.
13.5 is just way too fast for regular stock racers only .4th off of Mod. Stock has to be 17.5 or higher.
13.5 and 10.5 are almost the same so pick one. They are too close to each other and we only need one or the other.
Let's use the Novak race as a barometer to see what works and get some rules submitted.
The biggest problem is the cars are way too fast. We need to drop down to 4 or 5 cells in order to grow this hobby. Lipo is not the answer because the voltage is just too high.
Wisconsin has come up with a new Trans Am class 4 cell brushed and everyone is having a blast. Car are slower but the racing is way closer and a blast to watch, and the cars don't break since they are going slower.
Here are practice lap times from the Novak race:
These are for foam:
13.5 best 10.2
10.5 not many people running yet most are the same as 13.5 times
Mod most are 9.8-9.9, Blackstock ran 9.6 but said he was going to slow it down some, too in consistant.
13.5 is just way too fast for regular stock racers only .4th off of Mod. Stock has to be 17.5 or higher.
13.5 and 10.5 are almost the same so pick one. They are too close to each other and we only need one or the other.
Let's use the Novak race as a barometer to see what works and get some rules submitted.
The biggest problem is the cars are way too fast. We need to drop down to 4 or 5 cells in order to grow this hobby. Lipo is not the answer because the voltage is just too high.
Wisconsin has come up with a new Trans Am class 4 cell brushed and everyone is having a blast. Car are slower but the racing is way closer and a blast to watch, and the cars don't break since they are going slower.